19th-century weapon found in whale

Originally posted by sensfan

Originally posted by junglelord

I hate people that kill animals when there is no need

[edit on 13-6-2007 by junglelord]

Tell me junglelord. Are you a Vegan, do not eat any meat/dairy/fish products? Do not wear or have any leather accessories of any kind? If so, I applaud you for your beliefs, but to state that you hate people that kill animals is a little extreme do you not think? I enjoy a good steak or nice juicy lobster. I love my leather jacket.

It's called survival of the fittest. do you cringe every time an animal kills another animal for food? We, as humans, are animals too...we are carnivorous by nature.

Now I want a bbq'd steak!!!

wow thats the biggest load of BS I ever saw....
good reason to go whale hunting and to rape mother earth.

I eat local, I eat organic, I eat hardly any meat, a little local chicken.
Yeah thats = to killing a whale.

Get a life and use some logic

Originally posted by Gemwolf

Originally posted by junglelord

Originally posted by Gemwolf
I'm not sure I understand what the relation to Cryptozoology and Mythical Beasts is...?

Not even gonna comment

welcome to ATS

Oh byrd

Perhaps you should comment. Please. By all means. Speak your mind.

I did and its a good laugh
thanks for the memories

Use some logic? How is it not logical for someone to assume that because you "hate people that kill animals" that you yourself take no part in the killing of an animal? Maybe those people live on the coast and that whale is them "eating local". You can't say I hate you for killing that animal and then say mmmmmmm yummy chicken. Somethings not quite right about that. Seems kinda hypocritical to me. Just my opinion though.

how in the world do you equate whaleing with eating a local grown chicken?
How do you equate mass slaughter of innocent animals for sport to sustanence?
How do you take a statement that is ovbiously meant to deride those stances into eating?

PS I do not drive a car, my carbon print is very small, I only eat chickens that I know how they lived and where...most of my food is from a garden
I see no comparison at all.

maybe your the type of person that would kill that whale, maybe you condone whaleing, sport hunting and raping mother earth.

thats the kind of logic you used on me

remember my disgust with killing innocent animals is justified, your equation is stupid at best

back on topic...I see no reason to endorse whaleing even amoung Native Americans and I am 1/3 Mohawk, so I speak from some relationship to the earth...europeans have very little of that.

Our own rights as Native North Americans are now superceeded by the state of the enviorment and the loss of species.

The estimates of many animals, like whales have been grossly inaccurate and there are much less then we were taught.

I stand firmly on my position, I am sickened by this state of the world where everything is on the endangered list...NOT brought to you by Native Americans.

Native Americans always hunted in sustainable ways...which has nothing to do with the whale industry and where we are today, so that even our taking of whales is a no no to me.

[edit on 13-6-2007 by junglelord]

You still make no sense to me, I am sad that they kill THAT creature, but this chicken is awesome? Now it is clear to me that you are caught being a hypocrit and have reverted back to being a child. Let's call peoples LOGICAL ways of thinking stupid because we don't understand. Don't say use some logic if that's not what you want. You should have said "Hey everyone! My opion is the only opinion I want to hear! If you don't agree with me you are stupid!" Way ta deny that ignorance...

You make no sense this is about whales
your talking cheap
Native Americans do not kill for sport and only within the great circle of life did we live.
you white man came with your ideas and your ways and call us savages
and have raped the earth from pole to pole
the amount of whales left for sustainable living for those who have the actual tradition has been superceeded by the MISS managment by non native americans who ran the whale industry for years and still do illegally to such an extent that the numbers are drastically low and on the endangered list.
hell they dont even know how long they live...

get a life and stay on topic



[edit on 13-6-2007 by junglelord]

So, the Inuit people of Canada that have hunted whale for centuries, should just stop and try to find another way to live is that it?

Just because your way of life and your beliefs cannot comprehend whaling as being the same thing as people in mid America or wherever eating a chicken or cow, doesn't make your stand any better. why is a whale more important than that chicken you eat?

because there are very few whales

This WAS about whales, you changed that... It's pretty ignorant for you to assume that I am white and know nothing of native americans. I am Chahta so don't be a fool. I hunt some times and I eat what I kill. As does my family. My life is grande so thanks, but I have one, and you are the one who went off topic. Don't be angry at me because you can't see my point of view. Be angry with yourself. I DO see where you are coming from. It's pointless to kill whales in todays world. I stick by my original point though.

I think one thing we should all do is stop thinking of Native Americans as "Noble Savages" always living at "at one" with nature. I know many Native Americans who presently hunt for sport and I have no doubt many did so in the past.

The very idea that Native Americans never wasted anything or killed unnecessarily is pure fallacy and a figment of European..(White Mans) imagination.

All human Societies are guilty of pollution, rape, murder and abuse of resources and the fellow man. Native Americans are no exception.

Here is an interesting comment on the subject that speaks volumes in my opinion,

No, seriously, there has never been a human society in which no one ever abused, murdered, or raped anyone else. American Indian societies were no exception. I've been a little surprised to hear this idea coming from some Indians now as well as white New Agers. Some people need to go back and listen to the old stories a little more. Why do the villains in our legends and oral histories rape, murder, abuse and enslave people if we never knew what that was? This is really the other side of the same "savage Indians didn't understand honesty, love, or loyalty" coin, and it's just as dehumanizing. Of course we knew what pollution, rape, massacres, and wife-beating were, and we knew they were wrong. We had laws against these things, we punished people we caught doing them, and we told stories with morals to teach the children they were unacceptable and would lead to no good end. A dog never does anything evil and never does anything about evil, because a dog doesn't understand evil. Civilized people are capable of evil and work together to protect their society from falling prey to it. Native Americans, contrary to some reports, were and are civilized people.

Here is a difficult truth: neither. People on both continents knew how best to live in their native environment, built the tools and machines they needed for their daily lives, wore clothes, made music and art, took care of their children and elders, fought wars, built cities, prayed, and sometimes did wicked things. Most people couldn't read or write, but some could. Some leaders were just, and others oppressed people. Europeans had more advanced weapons, and Native Americans took more baths.

Somehow, this is the very hardest idea for Americans to come to terms with, given the massive genocide that occurred here. If heroic white pioneers wiped out a race of ignorant cavemen who were just living miserable savage lives anyway, or if misguided white aggressors slew a noble and gentle race of otherwordly beings who might have otherwise taught them the secrets of wise living, then those would be comprehensible tragedies. That one group of normal, generally decent people should have slaughtered another group of normal, generally decent people--ordinary human beings who baked bread and did their laundry and watched football games and gossiped about their neighbors and made mistakes and loved their children--is psychologically devastating, almost beyond comprehension. But that's what happened. We're just like you. We always have been. There are just fewer of us, now.

compliments of www.native-languages.org...

My Grandmother was 1/2 French and 1/2 Cherokee. Not quite sure what that makes me, but I had always had an idealized vision of Native American living in total balance with nature until I visited reservations in New Mexico and saw first hand the pollution and filth that seemed common to almost every area I visited. It was a real eye opener for me.


Now back to the whale. I can understand the disgust so many have with hunting them for sport especially because the numbers left are dwindling rapidly.
I think that the Natives who continue to hunt them are just riding the coat tails of their ancestors. I agree that using modern methods to hunt them negates any cultural value they claim to support.

Shades of Ahab...."To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee..."

Not all cultures today vew them as "gentle giants".

Originally posted by testrat

Originally posted by Gemwolf
I'm not sure I understand what the relation to Cryptozoology and Mythical Beasts is...?

I suppose the fact that the whale is more than 100 years old is really astounding...

What's YOUR take on it Bigfoothunter?

Are there any other mammals that have a life span that exceed 130 years? I really can't think of any off the top of my head. I think the fact that there are marine mammals that quite possibly could live for 200 years, could add some insight to some crytids species. Maybe some of usual suspects of lake monster are some animal that has a really long life span. That they are the same exact animal that people have been seeing for generations. That there really isn't a breeding population, but just one or two individuals that got stuck somewhere. I just think that if a whale could live so long, maybe some of the unkown creatures have similiar life spans.

Yeah that's an interesting way to look at it.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
I don't eat meat. The only dairy products I consume are milk and cheese. Neither require killing an animal.

Sorry to burst your bubble here but there is a substance in cheese called rennet. It's an enzyme and they take it from the cow's intestines.

I suggest you to do some research on what foods have animal products in them.

There are many individual ingredients in foods you would think doesn't have any meat in them but are made with animals.

Best of luck.

That is a shame....avoided us for a hundred years....then butchered.

Humans are a plague on the earth, I hate how destructive we are.

Originally posted by selfless

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
I don't eat meat. The only dairy products I consume are milk and cheese. Neither require killing an animal.

Sorry to burst your bubble here but there is a substance in cheese called rennet. It's an enzyme and they take it from the cow's intestines.

I suggest you to do some research on what foods have animal products in them.

There are many individual ingredients in foods you would think doesn't have any meat in them but are made with animals.

Best of luck.

Upon extensively reviewing the ingredients printed on the back of my bag of cheese, which may qualify as the all important research that you so kindly suggested, I found there to be no Rennet in the cheese.

Even if there were, I also said that killing for food purposes isn't considered animal abuse or cruelty in my opinion.

The bottom line is, I do not consume your typical meat products. I'm also quite certain that the things I do eat do not contain any part of an animal. The closest possible thing is the thing you suggested, but even so, again, I do not disagree with killing for food purposes.

Tuthahbigfoothunter

A whale caught last month had a weapon fragment embedded in its neck from more than a century ago. An arrow-shaped projectile that has given researchers insight into the whale's age, estimated between 115 and 130 years old.

Oh goodness! Maybe the lesson is that some whales can live as long as 130 years and probably longer! Why is this a political issue about killing whales and how mean and bad mankind is? I thought we already knew that!

Originally posted by Plumranch:

Oh goodness! Maybe the lesson is that some whales can live as long as 130 years and probably longer! Why is this a political issue about killing whales and how mean and bad mankind is? I thought we already knew that!

Plumranch you are correct. I did start the thread because of how old and awesome tha animal was for it's lifespan. Somehow it has just turned into something else. This thread has grown a life of it's own. We as people do stink though sometimes don't we? Kind of a bummer. I do think it is obvious in this particular case.

sonic.net...

This is a link to a site that lists the lifespans of various animals.
While whales are not mentioned here it does have some other animals that get to be "long in the tooth" as my grandad used to say;

Galapagos Land Tortoise 193 years
American Box Turtle 123 years
Carp 100 years
Elephant 70 years
Amazon Parrot 80 years

A different site list this: www.pubquizhelp.34sp.com...

Bowhead whale 200 years
Tortoise 193 years
Turtle 125 years

The winner according to this site is the Quahog
(deep sea clam) 220 years.

However ask.yahoo.com... has this to say about the creature with the longest lifespan.

The oldest animal on the planet may be the deep-sea tubeworm Lamellibrachia, found in the Gulf of Mexico. These skinny tubes live in colonies, and each creature can live around 170 to 250 years.

Imagine the knowlege & wisdom we could aquire over two lifespans.


[edit on 14-6-2007 by Sparky63]

[edit on 14-6-2007 by Sparky63]

I see nobody had the nerve to argue what I said. Maybe because it's the truth and it blows all of the "alleged animal lovers" out of the water (no pun intended).

Junglelord, I'll come right out and say that you have no idea of what you speak and you can throw those other protesters in with you.

You guys should look in the mirror before pointing fingers.

Tell me you all tromp thru the forest planting trees and picking up plastic bags and 6-pack rings among other garbage. Tell me you are the ones trudging thru waist deep snow carrying bales of feed for starving deer and seed/nuts/fruit for other animals.

If you do, I salute you...oh and the terrible hunters/sportsmen that I know do it.

Again I say, walk a mile in the native whale hunters shoes before you hang him.

Yes there are people that abuse the land, water and wildlife, they are called poachers.

I too think that all whale hunters (except a few diserving native villages) should hang it up. However, some of the largest environmental disasters have occured because of overprotection and lack of good management. The best example of that is Yellowstone Park. Don't remember the details but the whole park practically was burned level because of poor management and overprotection. Animals died by the thousands. I'm sure whales could overpopulate as well and get into trouble but that is a question for the whale biologists. The door should always be left open for whale harvests in the case of overpopulations of whales. A complete ban is a mistake IMO.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Upon extensively reviewing the ingredients printed on the back of my bag of cheese, which may qualify as the all important research that you so kindly suggested, I found there to be no Rennet in the cheese.

I suggest researching it on the internet for the actual ingredients of the ingredients.

Search the words rennet and enzymes.

FDA has a tendency to hide ingredients within other ingredients and then call a combination of substances one individual ingredient.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Even if there were, I also said that killing for food purposes isn't considered animal abuse or cruelty in my opinion.

Well you called your self a vegetarian but at the same time you said that you eat cheese and so I was only trying to give you some information for your own good as to what food have meat in them that you would not know about.

You gave me the impression that you did not want to eat animal's.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
The bottom line is, I do not consume your typical meat products.

Well I dunno if you are talking to me when you say that but just so you know, I'm not a vegetarian. I am a vegan, I don't even drink milk nor eat eggs.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
I'm also quite certain that the things I do eat do not contain any part of an animal.

Because you didn't know that there are cow intestines in cheese, this indicated to me that you wouldn't know about some of the other products that are even less known to the public that have animal ingredients in them.

How long have you been a vegetarian? I'm just trying to raise your awareness on certain foods that have meat in them that they don't tell the public about.