Atheism is the Worst Sin

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And that's just the thing. Why should you DO anything about him? The fact that people think they need to DO something about other people is really irritating sometimes.

If something needs to be done about me, I'll do it.

Does that make sense or do I sound like an angry, offended atheist?

BH, yes you sound kinda angry.

Actually nobody is doing anything to him. This is a discussion board where he chooses to attack anything remotely connected to Christianity. It's his choice to read opinions and take part in the faith forum, spacificly Christianity focused threads. If I was offended by good coffee and yet continued to walk into Starbucks I couldn't blame the corporation for my own actions. You get the point I'm sure.

Anyway we Christians have a responsibility to share the word with Love as demonstrated in my post above. If someone gets offended by that Love there is nothing I can do. You may argue that I can just by keeping my big mouth shut but that is not an option.

blessings....

Originally posted by kinglizard
I do think there is a fine line between condemning and sharing the word, in some cases. I can certainly see BH's point here. Sharing the word is important but we need to be sure that it's in a way where people don't feel like it's an attack. I see a big difference between the following statements:

"If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to burn in hell for eternity"

and...

"You can only find salvation through Jesus Christ"

Kinglizard,

I think what people are attempting to say is that it is (at the very least) impolite to preach at someone who doesn't share your belief. Regardless of whether we are talking about religious belief or otherwise.

So, while the first sentence is unacceptable, so is the second to anyone who doesn't share your belief.

What would be acceptable would be, for instance......

'The Christain faith states that you can only find salvation through Jesus Christ', or.....

'I believe that you can only find salvation through Jesus Christ'.

The first is a statement of fact concerning the particular faith itself, the second would be the statement of your position on the matter. I can argue with neither.

Do you see the difference?

As I asked GreatTech.... if you start a thread criticizing a group of people, do you not expect them to respond? If you don't think so, try starting one criticizing Jews and see how quickly you get on the late night news!

The Winged Wombat

[edit on 20/5/07 by The Winged Wombat]

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
What would be acceptable would be, for instance......

Isn't that assumed when speaking to someone. If I tell you that Dunkin' Donuts are the best donut you can buy don't you assume it's my opinion? You are just trying to find a way to keep us Christian silent...lol

The bottom line here is that you just want all Christians to remain quiet. This is not an option, sorry. We believe all souls are worth saving. BH's comment about her mother is a perfect example. Se is suggesting that we all just remain silent, not saying a word and people will see us by our "fruit". While this is a biblically supported attitude so is verbally sharing the word.

I suggested that we Christians share the word in a way that is non confrontational and doesn't condemn...surprise, surprise, event this suggestion is being shot down by the athiest croud...lol

Not at all kinglizard,

Please go back and read the title of this thread and tell me honestly that it is a Christian focused thread.

If you call someone names, expect them to respond. Simple as that. I'm sure you have spoken on many other matters not affecting athiests, good on you, doesn't bother me.

Everyone has the right to speak - and that infers the right to suffer the consequences for what they say!

Well, I read BH's post, and iI thought it was about leading by example rather than preaching!

The Winged Wombat


[edit on 20/5/07 by The Winged Wombat]

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
What would be acceptable would be, for instance......

Isn't that assumed when speaking to someone. If I tell you that Dunkin' Donuts are the best donut you can buy don't you assume it's my opinion? You are just trying to find a way to keep us Christian silent...lol

I don't agree with this. In a heated debate, the only rational and sensible way to conduct it is with "I" statements. Otherwise the debate can get out of hand as some people are offended.

I think it's the same as the requirement in the T&C that one attack an ideology, not other people.

You can't assume anything anyone says on a forum because there is no additional input from body language, facial expression, etc. It is also not fair to assume that Christians mean something when the non-theists are not allowed to make assumptions along the same lines themselves.

I would be more comfortable with debates such as this if "I" statements were adhered to. And FSM knows I am as guilty as the next person of forgetting this simple rule in the heat of the moment.

We might all get somewhere in this standoff if we observed this simple little courtesy. Or then again, maybe not.

Title: Atheism is the Worst Sin

Author: GreatTech

Assumption: Thread based on Christian views.

I'm not suggesting only Christians respond to this thread.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
In a heated debate, the only rational and sensible way to conduct it is with "I" statements.

Then why didn't you say "In my opinion, In a heated debate, the only rational and sensible way to conduct it is with "I" statements."

I'll answer.....because it's ridiculous to ask someone to say "in my opinion" before everything they say when 99.9999% of people know in conversation that by default whatever they say IS their opinion. For goodness sakes. lol

kinglizard,

Because the word atheism is used in the title, why does that infer a Christian thread. Atheism is not just applicable to Christianity, it applies to all the 'Gods' of all religions. Or were you making that assumption because of the word 'Sin' or some other reason.

And..... it is when people begin to state their opinion as fact that others can be offended, IMHO.

The Winged Wombat

[edit on 20/5/07 by The Winged Wombat]

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
And..... it is when people begin to state their opinion as fact that others can be offended, IMHO.

You mean like this post of your in a different thread:

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
I cannot remember when I've read so much B/S !

There is no GOD.... There is no SATAN.

Some people just have so little intelligence that they just have to believe that there is some purpose and some design in the universe.

Did a supreme being create the goldfish ?

What is the divine purpose of the goldfish ?

Does the goldfish worry it's tiny mind about the meaning of life the universe and everything ?

Oh P-L-E-A-S-E !

Man created gods (yes, all of them) as a means of explaining what was incomprehensible to them, and then science started to uncover the facts.

What is now incomprehensible to us is just something that science hasn't explained YET!

Accept the incomprehensible as being beyond our present knowledge, not as some mystical power of an omnipotent creator !

Go back to sleep goldfish

www.belowtopsecret.com...



Yes, may we all be as gentle and understanding as you. May we all express OUR opinions with as much love and understanding as your post above. May we all express our opinions AS opinions rather than facts as your post above demonstrates.

Thank you for the shining example. lol

The fact of the matter here is that I can read the above and realize that it's just your opinion rather than fact. But for some reason you only want things stated as fact when you agree with the statement. When you don't agree with a statement you want others to say it's "their opinion.

You believe it or not, I understand where both arguments are coming from. Great tech is expressing his testimony and a way that offers hope. Now he comes off with that message probably in a way he only knows how ( Dont take offence Great tech ). To almost everyone else, his message has been lost because of the way he came off. I admit more than once on this and other threads I, could have approached debates alot differently then I did.
Then you have the other side of the argument who is telling Great tech that pretty much you should re-think the way you came off. Now some of the ways they have come off with their message could have been different, all in all though it has been interesting.
The topic of this thread is probably a little harsh. I agree there could have been another name but, thats in the past now. Really though as far as being a bleiever, you would naturally like to see everyone be a believer as well. If you are optomistic, possible even questioning your faith then, it would be an oprotune time to hear somone out of a different faith. It's real hard though.
To get back on topic somewhat though. Doesn't it say in the bible about having no other gods before Him? ( under the impression that Atheism is a belief of no god ). So a question to ask anyone or, even yourselves would be, is atheism putting a god before God?

God bless

kinglizard,

Then we are in total agreement, that when someone says something offensive to another, then we should respond rather than just staying mute!

followerofchrist..... no, atheists acknowledge no 'God' or 'Gods' so whatever they 'put before God' if that is the way you wish to phrase it (I think 'logic' might be the appropriate word) it could not possibly be another 'God'.

Thank you and goodnight.

[edit on 20/5/07 by The Winged Wombat]

No, what I'm saying is the assumption is that what a person says is by default THEIR opinion...

I won't get into the hypocritical stuff.

Nite-nite Wombat.

I dont mean to push the issue but, wouldn't that in it self be putting somthing before God? I mean instead of relying on God your relying on Logic. King lizard what do you think?

Good nite wombat.

God bless

Originally posted by kinglizard
BH, yes you sound kinda angry.

I'm not at all angry. I'm not offended, either. I'm not an atheist and I wouldn't give Great Tech the power to offend me with this kind of thread if I were.

Actually nobody is doing anything to him.

No, but you said there's nothing you can do about him. And I agree. I just don't understand why you think it's the right thing to TRY to do something about him.

This is a discussion board where he chooses to attack anything remotely connected to Christianity.

And so does this thread's author. He attacks anything remotely connected to other belief systems.

It's his choice to read opinions and take part in the faith forum, spacificly Christianity focused threads.

This thread was about atheists. I don't know how you can deny that...

You may argue that I can just by keeping my big mouth shut but that is not an option.

Not at all. Talk about it all you want. All I'm saying is that an attack on anyone (atheists included) is bound to bring them in to defend themselves. And it will also bring people like me who believe in the equality of all, including belief systems.

Originally posted by kinglizard
The bottom line here is that you just want all Christians to remain quiet. This is not an option, sorry. We believe all souls are worth saving. BH's comment about her mother is a perfect example. Se is suggesting that we all just remain silent, not saying a word and people will see us by our "fruit". While this is a biblically supported attitude so is verbally sharing the word.

I suggest you read the paragraph about my mother again. I said she brought more people to Christ by living it instead of preaching it. I was giving Great Tech an example of how to get the results he desires instead of pushing people away as he tends to do.

KL, you should know that I support ALL people to have and express their views. I'm not trying to shut anyone up. Just because I have an argument with you doesn't mean I think you should shut up and I think that's a pretty cheap shot.

Originally posted by followerofchrist
Doesn't it say in the bible about having no other gods before Him? ( under the impression that Atheism is a belief of no god ). So a question to ask anyone or, even yourselves would be, is atheism putting a god before God?

My husband and I discussed this last night. Atheists have no god. So they are NOT putting any god before the Christian God.

Originally posted by followerofchrist
I dont mean to push the issue but, wouldn't that in it self be putting somthing before God?

From the atheist standpoint, there is no God, so it is impossible to put something before something that doesn't exist. It doesn't make sense.

From the Christian standpoint, sure. Atheists seem to put something before God, but according to them, there isn't one, so it's impossible.

Well thank you that clears a lot of things up. So under this thinking though, do atheists believe in sin? that would also explain a lot. Then, it would be understandable to know that they would get defensive because from their point there is no God so, how can you say this is the worst sin. Me as a believer though see it differently and there is no happy medium. Making it very difficult to talk to them in a way that they can relate to.

God bless

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No, but you said there's nothing you can do about him. And I agree. I just don't understand why you think it's the right thing to TRY to do something about him.

You may have a point if this thread title was "madnessinmysoul - Atheism is the Worst Sin". However it's just a thread based on Christian beliefs confronting atheism in general. Nobody singled out Madness so nobody is trying to make madness think anything. In my opinion madness is not just an atheist, he is angry inflammatory God hating, atheist that likes to attack Christians. He is well beyond just not believing, so indeed there is NOTHING I can do about him. But this doesn't mean we shouldn't spread the word to other atheist.

When I said there is nothing I can do about him I meant him, specificially him.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And so does this thread's author. He attacks anything remotely connected to other belief systems.

I haven't seen him attack anyone. I've only seen him share his Christian beliefs. If he says "homosexuals are committing sin" he's just preaching the word of God, he isn't attacking homosexuals. As a matter of fact sharing the word og God is a form of Love.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This thread was about atheists. I don't know how you can deny that...

I don't, this thread is about Christian views on Athiesm.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I suggest you read the paragraph about my mother again. I said she brought more people to Christ by living it instead of preaching it.

I'm sure she brought many people to Christ but how can she bring more people to God than someone sharing the word with everyone and living the word of God? You assume she brought more people to God by living it instead of preaching but God only knows how many people she could have brought to the Lord had she lived and preached the word. By only showing "fruit" you can only touch those that have a personal relationship with the individual. If you were to show your "fruit" and preach Gods word you can reach those close as well as far.

With your loving mother you saw all that was done not all that was possible.


[edit on 5/20/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by followerofchrist
So under this thinking though, do atheists believe in sin?

I can't speak for atheists, but I do have something to say about this. It depends on your definition of the word "sin". If sin equates to immorality, then absolutely, atheists believe in and have a very strong moral standard. It's probably not exactly the same as Christians, but many points will be the same.

For example, I think lying is a sin. I'm faithful to my husband. I think taking something that isn't mine is a sin. I don't support the death penalty because killing another person who wishes to live is not my right.

Religion or a belief in God are not necessary to have morals. I know many atheists and agnostics whose moral values are much higher than many Christians I know.

Making it very difficult to talk to them in a way that they can relate to.

I think it's good to talk with people of other belief systems. I don't try to get others to believe as I do and I don't seem to have many problems discussing it. It's when people tell me I'm wrong or I need to change my ways or go to hell that I lose interest in discussion. I think we can all relate, it's when "right" and "wrong" judgments get thrown around that people start getting offended and upset. I really try not to do that.

Well, that is in a sense what I meant but, more on the lines of Biblical. Yes I agree that when right and wrong is thrown around people are almost ready to throw fists. I have found it hard to talk to different people the same way about the same topic because of their different veiws. Before I know it, im backed into a figurative corner fighting for my life so to speak. I dont neccesarily allow that to happen, just sometimes I dont know the right thing to say and it is usually at a point where I have to say something. Thank you though it did shed some light on the subject.

God bless

Originally posted by kinglizard
I haven't seen him attack anyone.

Well, then you aren't looking hard enough. Check out his thread Why are Atheists Atheists? (as if he's really curious to know...)

I covered this before. If you say to someone, "You are a misguided, greedy, underdeveloped, unappreciative and dangerous sinner because you are an atheist, but I love you and just want to help you..." the outcome isn't going to be pretty. I'm not defending madness, but he is no more guilty of attacking a belief system than GreatTech is. And madness isn't lashing out and then crying because people aren't responding the way he wants them to.

Oh my, there is no comparing the two. I'm sure you can find a post by me that isn't so godly just as I'm sure we can find a post by you that isn't so flattering. We are talking about habitual behavior not just a weak moment or one post in 1000.