How can people be so brainwashed

Wow, I' surprised I missed this thread, but then agan Ive been caught up in absurd debate with an imperialist DOD contractor / apologist. I 'll just start here:

Originally posted by GwionX
First of all you are talking about events that happened in 2001. Most people know what they saw and moved on.

Woo! People watched planes it buildings... case closed! There's nothing to see here, reaches an unprecidented level.

Most people don't want someone else's obsession to be forced on them. It is that simple. [/quote

So then why wont Bush stfu? It's not like he ever cared to stop 911:
*9/11 Commission Report: "terrorist threats, was in the tens of thousands—probably hundreds of thousands."

That doesn't make them zombies, or sheeple.

People following a leader doesn't make them sheeple in itself. it's when people are shown that they're blindly following a person/thing that is unjust, yet continue to do so, is what makes them a sheeple. Sheepledom is more tha following a leader, it's enslavement to the persons own mindset(s) [which are generally prescribed], despite being shown their errors.

life is too short to obsess over fantasy.

So then we should live out fnatases that have been prescribed to us thru TV by our elite masters?

If the events of 9/11 were indeed a government conspiracy, believe me, massive amounts of people would know it by now.

Of course! Why didn't I think of that? Well, we wont even get into how 5 megaconglomerates own 95% of all public media. Lets start with the fact that this nation is everything that was rebelled against in 1776, and is everything that we've allegidly been against for decades now. You know what, lets skip that, and get to the real big story in that light: hundreds of millions of people haven't any concept of this fact, which is strange as it's right on the surface. You dont even have to research this truth-basedl reality, instead youhave to bend over backwards to not notice it. What were you saying again, about obsessing over fantasies? If hundreds of millions of people have been and still are self-deciving themselves, wouldn't that count as obsession?

I'm sure you'll squirm over that, so please come debate it in the proper place:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by AcesInTheHole
Many people i talk to just don't care, and believe the country is goin down the tubes but there is nothing they can do about it.

Because everyone is pretending that they cant do anything about it, instead of pretending that they can.

people only care about buying products that are fashonable and expensive and being one of the crowd. I also believe this is done by design, so that the elite can just watch the proles go into a catatonic state.

And you are correct.
[Wat ch this and you'll see the world in an entire new light, because you are right.]

Any helpful tips on waking up the zombies that don't care about anything?

It's tough! Despite a good year plus of research in psychology and sociology, the "Ignorance Bias" remains the most elusive to even me.

It requires an all frontal, and reversal, assault. I'm not just talking the ol hey look WTC7 is incredible tactic. I'm talking a full on program using all fo the most irrefutable concepts (top down), while teaching the (bottom up) concepts like cognitve biases, automacity, sociology and hueristics. For starters...

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
What conslusions have you come to about the 9-11 event and the resulting public policies and "war on terror"?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where is this all leading?

Do you really want to know?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

theories

I go to great lengths to ensure that my "theories" are based on facts. I suggest others do the same.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by infinityoreilly



9:46? areyou sure about that? Maybe 8:46? So to continue are you defending the respose of our "elected" officials in the years leading up to 911? Especially the day of the attacks? There's no cover up only disinformation to create division between patriotic americans of the middle class. 911 was allowed to happen wasn't it? Do you believe the terrorists were able to do this without many people in top positions at least looking the other way?

spelling

[edit on 4/24/2007 by infinityoreilly]

Oops, very bad typo, too bad spell check doesn't help with numbers. My bad.

No for years, bascially since the first WTC bombing we have put our heads in the sand about the threat of Islamic terrorists such as AQ. 9/11 was only "allowed" to happen as the terrorists were able to use the freedoms we cherish to their advantage. You complain about the Patriot act and wiretapping now, how do you thing the Govt. could have got those passed prior to a major attack? The only way we could have prevented 9/11 was to have much stricter immigration controls and more monitoring of suspected terrorists. Neither of those had a chance in hell of being passed, when nobody seemed to think it was a major threat.

Originally posted by GwionX
Well it is kinda hard to be incompetent and omnipotent at the same time, Griff.

He does have a point. How can the Bush adminstration or others before him, pull off such a topnotch operation when CTers themselves give them hardly any credit, calling them stupid, incompetent, ect. ect. How do you reconcile that? Either they are stupid and are just savants when it comes to the whole 9/11 thing or ..........what exactly?

You can't have it both ways. If they are so clever as to pull off 9/11 with no one noticing or finding smoking guns. How come they didn't plant big WMD caches in Iraq for instance? Doesn't make sense that they should be so good in one area and miss obvious opportunites in others.

pavil

I don't think it was the Bush administration that was behind the 9/11 thing, there might be a few members who were key.

Really this is a BLACK OP with criminal elements within the Gov, Same thing as when MKULTRA was done and operation Bluebird, or the overthrow of the Iranian democratically leader in Iran with operation Ajax .

I agree with the Iraq point you bring up and I have thought about it as well. Why didn't they just plant weapons? But again, I think this is a very clandestine type of operation and whomever is behind it, probably didn't think it important to have to plant the weapons, since only Bush and his crew would take the blame.

Consider Operation Gladio, when the European Parliament stated the following concerning BLACK OP'S and the like.

I will just quote several key parts, notice what it says, and remember Gov officials in Europe have come clean after 40 years of silence, brutal acts of terrorism were commited all with the plan to blame the 'bad guy'.

But it is relevant to our discussion, especially where it talks of Gov officials who OFTEN are kept in the dark about these things.

en.wikipedia.org...

A. having regard to the revelation by several European governments of the existence for 40 years of a clandestine parallel intelligence and armed operations organization in several Member States of the Community,

B. whereas for over 40 years this organization has escaped all democratic controls and has been run by the secret services of the states concerned in collaboration with NATO,

C. fearing the danger that such clandestine network may have interfered illegally in the internal political affairs of Member States or may still do so,

D. whereas in certain Member States military secret services (or uncontrolled branches thereof) were involved in serious cases of terrorism and crime as evidenced by, various judicial inquiries,

E. whereas these organizations operated and continue to operate completely outside the law since they are not subject to any parliamentary control and frequently those holding the highest government and constitutional posts are kept in the dark as to these matters,

Operation Northwoods and the plan to do Terrorism in Washington and Miami was planned, much like Gladio.

But, Gladio was actually carried out. Remember the CIA had involvement with Gladio.

Govs do crap like this, whether it was Mind Control and the destruction of many lives with MKULTRA, or the sinister planning of killing Cuban's and starting Terror in Washington, or the sinister evils of Gladio,

it is a running theme.

The reason Northwoods was planned, was because things like this happen often and the Gov knows how to keep these secret, why else do you think they would plan this?

I personally believe 9/11 was allowed to happen but that there were real hijackers involved, it helped the agenda along and it was probably a group of planners who sat down and tried to examine the "GREATER GOOD".

Perhaps they felt it would be soon that Bin Laden would aquire nukes and pose an incredible threat, so they justify this to themselves.

Much like during Northwoods the people planning their evil see their 'evil' as a necessary evil.

Just like a pilot who has to shoot down a passenger jet before it hits a building, he basically is killing innocents, but it is needed to prevent more death.

This is how these people are sold to the idea, they are manipulated by Sociopaths who are in high positions. An interesting read on things like this are in the book The Sociopath Next Door. I personally believe some of the individuals we are dealing with fit the criteria.









[edit on 24-4-2007 by talisman]

Originally posted by pavil
give them hardly any credit,

"Credit" and "Stupidity" are 2 different things. A liar can be smart. A genius can be a liar (I wont go that far with Bush lol).
Someone who constantly lies may appear stupid.

calling them stupid, incompetent, ect. ect.

This topic deserved it's own thread, so I created it. Take this argument over here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by pavil
He does have a point. How can the Bush adminstration or others before him, pull off such a topnotch operation when CTers themselves give them hardly any credit, calling them stupid, incompetent, ect. ect. How do you reconcile that? Either they are stupid and are just savants when it comes to the whole 9/11 thing or ..........what exactly?

Oy vey!
Nobody is suggesting that Bush himself is the mastermind of 9/11, that is a ridiculous assumption considering the guy can't even spell N-U-C-L-E-A-R.
Bush is a freakin' puppet, just like the other presidents before him. the real masterminds are the military industrial complex, the war mongers, the banksters behind Bush, those who finance him. The CIA, MOSSAD and FBI, those who profited from a 2.3 trillion "accounting mistake", those who will gain the most from the Afghanistan gas pipeline and Iraqi oil.
They will be here when Dubya is gone and a new "democrat" puppet is put in place of him.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

Pavil, just answer this one question since you have ignored virtually every question I have asked in the last two pages:

How come there was reports of passengers calling on their cell phone from inside all 4 of the flights when it is absolutely impossible to make a cell phone call at 35,000 ft above ground and when it is impossible to make a cell phone call when travelling at 500 MPH?

Don't believe me? Just go in an airliner and do try to make a cell phone call, but don't get caught, they don't allow you to turn your phone on. Just turn it on without anyone seeing you and see if you can dial or receive any calls at all.

In fact, a few airlines are thinking about installing a new technology called AirCell

But while some upscale, long-haul airlines are installing equipment onboard that will allow for cell phone use, it may be a while before the service makes its way to the U.S. ..... airlines can equip a plane with AirCell's technology for about (100,000$ per airplane), Blumenstein said.
www.cnn.com...

Now, why would they install new technology making cell phone possible and spend $100,000 per airplane if it was already possible on 9/11?

Originally posted by GwionX

Originally posted by Griff
I'm sick of incompetence used as an excuse. And an exceptable one at that? I say no.

Well it is kinda hard to be incompetent and omnipotent at the same time, Griff.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. You are comparing two different bodies as one body. First, you have the shadow government (the ones that are omnipotent as you call them). Second, you have the regular government (the ones that are excused for their incompetence).

The regular government are the ones that aren't in on it and would only be doing their jobs (which were significantly hindered because of drills ect. from the omnipotent ones). Then, the omnipotent ones claim incompetence on the regular ones and it gets covered up. Just my opinion.

That is why this whole 9/11 truth movement is a huge diservice to the American public.

If anything, it is a huge service. Sit there and let them spoon feed you, I don't care. I'm not going to let some government tell me that the laws of physics don't apply to them when it's convenient for them.

For the foundation of the claims presented by the "Truth movement" rely on the U.S. Federal Government being able to secretly construct and perform a ridiculously complex plan and resulting cover-up with seemless precision.

Seemless precision? That's were the logical fallacy comes into play also. There is no omnipotence here. They F'ed up in areas.

So seemless that here, 6 years later, there is still not one shread of SOLID TANGIBLE EVIDENCE to support the CT's claims.

Ahem.....NIST...WTC 7.... Alex for 100.

How about we forget about fantsy driven theories,

You mean like gravity driven collapses that telescope steel columns into themselves?

and concern ourselves with the real problem of a bloated, complacent, incompetent, poorly communicating bureaucratic system?

Hence why I'm saying that I'm sick of the use of incompetence as an excuse. I guess we agree on that at least.

Originally posted by pavil
How come they didn't plant big WMD caches in Iraq for instance?

Simple solution. There were UN inspectors in Iraq. How can we just dump some WMD (especially when Saddam is still in power)? If you're talking after we overthrew Saddam, You are talking about importing a massive amount of WMD. They better scratch off the serial numbers on those weapons or it pretty much would read "Made In America". Now, see how it wouldn't have been just as easy as dumping WMD in Iraq?

Originally posted by pavil
How come they didn't plant big WMD caches in Iraq for instance?

This is a flawed logic. They don't need to invent WMDs in Iraq to stay there. They are still there, aren't they? So why plant WMDs when they only need to make up new reasons every week.
Do you know what the real reasons were?

Iraq had been under 10 years of cruel sanctions and for the most part, unabled to sell their oil. But the inspection final reports were going to reveal there are no WMDs in Iraq, thus the sanctions would have been lifted and Saddam would have gone full throttle forward with pumping as much and selling as much oil as possible.
He had just nationalized Iraq's oil production which gave him full power over how much oil he would sell and he also had transfered all his oil currencies from American dollar to the European dollar.

In other words, he would have driven down the world price of the barrel and force the big oil corporates to sell their oil for cheaper and this without any benefits to the corporate American oil whores.

In short, this is why Bush said that we could not wait until the final inspection report, that it was urgent, that we had to attack NOW.

They don't need to invent WMDs at this point, they only need to create 20 different fake reasons and let the sheeples pick any which one they want.

Once you debunk one reason, the sheeples jump to the next reason that suits them best. Debunk that one too and they move to a third reason. It's an emotional Merry-Go-Round.

But believe me, if they needed to create WMDs to stay there, they would have "found" the said weapons a long time ago.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

Hmm. I thought this was the "Why are peoples so brainwashed" thread?

Can we can a moderator in here to change the name of the thread to "Red Herring District"?



So are we going to talk about psychology / sociology again?


I have a proposal for those who would like to throw red herring moneky wreches into the mixc here: Follow my example above aqnd create a seperate thread for your argument that doesnt actually pertain to the topic / title. Then simply link that thread in here with a mentioning the way I did. Perhaps this should eb the policy here at ATS, and any other forums for that matter, because I see emotional flurries taking over way too many threads.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by GwionX
So seemless that here, 6 years later, there is still not one shread of SOLID TANGIBLE EVIDENCE to support the CT's claims.

You need to read here:
Absolutism Terminology: Dont sound like an idiot
www.abovetopsecret.com...

IIB, you make my point, beautifully.

IIB, you have done me a great service.

You posted :

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Be sure to not use absolutist terms for things which aren't absolute, otherwise you'll sound like an irrational "Skeptic" or "Kook", and odds are you may just be while you're probably engaging in Logical Fallacies of some sort.

Thank you.

You then go on and say :

Originally posted by IgoranceIsntBliss

I go to great lengths to ensure that my "theories" are based on facts.

If a theory is based on fact, ergo, it is fact. You contradict yourself, and
badly.

You sound like a reverse disinfo agent, and I'm actually glad I read all
the "facts" you are spouting like so much water from a fountain.

People are "brainwashed" by people like you. Stating facts that are merely
speculation and manipulation of facts.

I'm quite pleased you pointed out the reasons that people are "brainwashed" by your own inconsistencies.

Thanks again,
Lex

Originally posted by Lexion
Originally posted by IgoranceIsntBliss

I go to great lengths to ensure that my "theories" are based on facts.

If a theory is based on fact, ergo, it is fact. You contradict yourself, and
badly.

Notice the "quotation marks". Should I have indented it too?

You sound like a reverse disinfo agent,

A "reverse disinfo" agent?
x = Info
0 / x = Disinfo = y
0 / y = Reverse Disinfo = x = Info

Thanks man, I needed that!

So now you're engaging in basically the same contradictory thing you just applied to me.

and I'm actually glad I read all
the "facts" you are spouting like so much water from a fountain.
People are "brainwashed" by people like you. Stating facts that are merely
speculation and manipulation of facts.

Please do demonstrate your "theory" . If it doesnt apply to this thread (i.e. one of my other threads etc) be sure not to Red Herring this thread.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by Lexion
If a theory is based on fact, ergo, it is fact. You contradict yourself, and
badly.

You sound like a reverse disinfo agent, and I'm actually glad I read all
the "facts" you are spouting like so much water from a fountain.

People are "brainwashed" by people like you. Stating facts that are merely
speculation and manipulation of facts.

I'm quite pleased you pointed out the reasons that people are "brainwashed" by your own inconsistencies.

Thanks again,
Lex

Your sarcasam is quite evident Lex, Einstein's theory of relativity still hasn't been completely prooven, yet is accepted because alot of facts back it up.

Originally posted by PepeLapew
Pavil, just answer this one question since you have ignored virtually every question I have asked in the last two pages:

How come there was reports of passengers calling on their cell phone from inside all 4 of the flights when it is absolutely impossible to make a cell phone call at 35,000 ft above ground and when it is impossible to make a cell phone call when travelling at 500 MPH?

www.fcc.gov...

Not that I know enough about the topic but why does the FCC ban Cell phone usage if they don't work? I don't know whether the statements you make about cellphones in planes are accurate. Perhaps someone with expereince trying that could add some input.

How do you explain the calls that were made then?
How did they happen if not the actual cell and airphones being used. Were they from a central location then made to look like they were coming from a plane? Adding much complexity to an already complex theory.

I have yet to see anywhere accurate phone records of that day. Supposedly some of the plane cell phone calls placed showed up as the correct caller ID on the home phone of people being called, how is that done if not through the actual cell phone? Do the phone calls match up with the actual plane data we do have, for instance if one of the phone calls mentions something about a dive, is there a record of it on air traffic controller records. That would be hard to do if those calls were not originating from said plane I would think. What was the altitude of the planes and the Cell tower distribution under them? I would tend to think those things would make a difference.

Again, I have not tried it myself so I can't say "absolutely impossible" or "possible" in regards to cell phones and airlines. I would tend to think possible yet harder than normal for sure, to do. It does bear further investigation IMO to find out more. I personally have not seen enough evidence to give a complete answer. Hopefully that answers your question as far as I am able to.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
Your sarcasam is quite evident Lex, Einstein's theory of relativity still hasn't been completely prooven, yet is accepted because alot of facts back it up.

Contradition and sarcasm are the new way to go. Haven't you heard? Since HowardRoark, et al have given up. Let's ask Lex if he/she can prove (using engineering and scientific data) how the government's proposterous theory works.