ET's religion

As i said before "many religious leaders violate their own religious precepts to win gain for themselves, exploit people, and win secular intrigues."

quote: Don't want to sound like a jerk, but.. if I was enslaved by "this materialistic society and its educational system", my guess is that I would be believing in God and would be a religious person.


That depends on the society. In this materialistic and technological society just the opposite is true.

I think its also important to clarify what TYPE of materialism is being talked about here, as there are 2 very different meanings for the word.
Firstly there philisophical materialism, which says something to the effect of Ideas do not exist as independent forces separated from reality and given to humans by a mystical force (IE god.) Which of course religious people are against.
And secondly there is"aquisitive materialism" which is the persuit of wealth, material objects, and property. Which of course religious people seem quite committed to.

so hell if aliens value materialistic aquisitions then id say they'd lean towards a religion, or anything else that would further their persuit.

I would have to say that if intelligent beings exist out there, they most likely have a system of belief roughly identical to our idea of "spirituality." I use roughly because i can not even begin to imagine their thought process. Humans, as another member stated before, seem to be wired for spirituality, proof of this can be seen for the last 4 millennia. Man has thought of the divine on his own terms, someone invented these ideas, therefore they are internalized thought processes first, then externalized unto others who then accept them.

At the same time, we cannot know if ET's are wired in the same manner. Therefore i highly doubt that they would have a religious system that is centralized as many of ours are. Those ET's who question the origins of their species would most likely have philosophies or religious perceptions (2 in the same thing IMO) of some sort. we have to remember that no matter how advanced they may be, the search for their origins or ours for that matter may still be in process.

I dont see religion as an opressive force. In all sacred texts from around the world we see man's desire to be one with the divine. I doubt that Jews were trying to control mankind in the desert in the year 2000BC or that christians being executed under the Roman Emperor were trying to control people. The same goes for other religions. If you read religious texts there is a permeating message of love and hope within all of them. In the same way mankind is divided on the issue of the existance of a god or not, I see no reason to believe why the ET's as a race may not be divided in the issue as well. sorry for long post guys.

Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by SkyWay
Your mental enslavement is evidenced by your very common faddish ill-regard for religion. You're just following the crowd in this materialistic western society by rejecting religion.

I'm following a crowd by rejecting religion? Man.. talk about illusion..

Now you are just simply denying an obvious fact. After all the U.S. and most western nations are secular and in many instances hostile toward religion..especially in this hedonistic unspiritual age. You're in denial of a fact that is obvious to most Americans. Be honest with yourself.

It takes independent thinking in this society to believe in anything spiritual or unconventional.

Yes, it does take independent thinking to believe in something unconventional, like not believing in god.

Your perception of the social trends and preferences in America is not very accurate. God is pretty much ignored in America except for a small portion. Even though there is freedom of religion, churches are closing down and the ones that remain are empty most of the time. So, it is not surprising that there are many people such as yourself who conform to the popular trend and blame every evil on religion.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
As i said before "many religious leaders violate their own religious precepts to win gain for themselves, exploit people, and win secular intrigues."

I cannot entirely disagree that there are some "religious leaders" who do not practice what they preach.

Originally posted by Starwatcher
No scientists do far worse things to intelligent animals like chimps and dogs. You should really research what we are doing on earth before you start accusing the aliens of such atrocities none of which their is even evidence to support other than word by mouth.

Your blind faith in aliens is incredible. You believe in alien goodness even though millions of people who have had direct contact with them have reported on how terrible the encounter was.

Originally posted by SkyWay
Your blind faith in aliens is incredible. You believe in alien goodness even though millions of people who have had direct contact with them have reported on how terrible the encounter was.

TO be honest, i doubt the number is that high, and ive read reports from abductee's that were positive and had nothing to do with expiramentation, mutilation, or impregnation.

So conversely, your blind faith that aliens are evil creatures is just as incredible

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by SkyWay
Your blind faith in aliens is incredible. You believe in alien goodness even though millions of people who have had direct contact with them have reported on how terrible the encounter was.

TO be honest, i doubt the number is that high, and ive read reports from abductee's that were positive and had nothing to do with expiramentation, mutilation, or impregnation.

So conversely, your blind faith that aliens are evil creatures is just as incredible

According to a Roper poll there are approximately 4 million people who have had abduction experiences. My conclusion that aliens are evil is not blind faith....it's based on evidence provided by the millions of abductees.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by SkyWay]

Originally posted by SkyWay
According to a Roper poll there are approximately 4 million people who have had abduction experiences. My conclusion that aliens are evil is not blind faith....it's based on evidence provided by the millions of abductees.
[edit on 28-3-2007 by SkyWay]

Ok, i stand corrected on the numbering. Can you post a link to this poll?
and does this poll say how many of the abductee's reported being violated?

EDIT to add: theres also the possibility of a lot of these people making the story up, having a bad case of night terrors/sleep paralysis etc. things to take into consideration.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by InSpiteOf]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by SkyWay
According to a Roper poll there are approximately 4 million people who have had abduction experiences. My conclusion that aliens are evil is not blind faith....it's based on evidence provided by the millions of abductees.
[edit on 28-3-2007 by SkyWay]

Ok, i stand corrected on the numbering. Can you post a link to this poll?
and does this poll say how many of the abductee's reported being violated?

Here is the wikipedia link. Click on the Roper poll in the contents box. Roper poll

This is from your source (bolding mine):

Of nearly 6,000 Americans, 119 answered in a way that Hopkins et al interpreted as supporting their ET interpretation of the abduction phenomenon. Based on this figure, Hopkins et al estimated that nearly four million Americans might have been abuducted by extraterrestrials.

So we can already see that the results are not concrete. continuing

However, critics have argued that there were significant problems with the poll's methodology which should invalidate the results. Writing in Skeptical Inquirer, psychologist Susan Blackmore notes that based on her analysis, "I conclude that the claim of the Roper Poll, that 3.7 million Americans have probably been abducted, is false."[8]

So the results have already been contested.


Edit to add: like i suspected, it says no where how many of those cases reported a bad encounter ie mutilation or rape.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by InSpiteOf]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
This is from your source (bolding mine):

Of nearly 6,000 Americans, 119 answered in a way that Hopkins et al interpreted as supporting their ET interpretation of the abduction phenomenon. Based on this figure, Hopkins et al estimated that nearly four million Americans might have been abuducted by extraterrestrials.

So we can already see that the results are not concrete. continuing

It is simple math. The numbers confirm what I wrote that approximately 4 million people have been abducted. I was responding to your suggestion that you did not think the figure was that high. Well, then, YOU provide data to back up what YOU say and show me what you have to support your claim that the number of abductees is not that high.

However, critics have argued that there were significant problems with the poll's methodology which should invalidate the results. Writing in Skeptical Inquirer, psychologist Susan Blackmore notes that based on her analysis, "I conclude that the claim of the Roper Poll, that 3.7 million Americans have probably been abducted, is false."[8]

So the results have already been contested.

Of course, any poll can be contested. They have not disproven it though.

Here is link to Dr. David Jacob's website where you can get more info on abductions. Abduction Event

[edit on 28-3-2007 by SkyWay]

Im not claiming any numbers, i simply said that i suspected that the number of abductee's wasnt 4 million. You gave a poll (which i was quite interested in) which gave some evidence to your claim of 4 million. Hell lets even accept it as cold hard fact for a second. it still doesnt prove aliens have hostile intent.

after skimming that guys page, the proceedures sound more like they are preparing our species for a comming event. Who knows, maybe the greys are the intergalatic driving instructors, and seeing as we are sort of a space fareing race, they're getting us ready for teh driving test.

Originally posted by SkyWay
It is simple math. The numbers confirm what I wrote that approximately 4 million people have been abducted.

No, that's not what they 'confirm'.

Of nearly 6,000 Americans, 119 answered in a way that Hopkins et al interpreted as supporting their ET interpretation of the abduction phenomenon.

If you read everything carefully here, they interpreted some people's experiences as abductions even though they weren't abductions, specially not in the sense of abduction that you claim.

In fact, even if 4 million was an acurrate figure (which isn't), ok fine, 4 million abductions. How many of those people were actually experienced on or impregnated? You don't know!

For one, because apparently the 'quality' of people's experience wasn't taken into consideration when coming up with the number of suspected abductees; and second, they interpreted people's experiences as being abductions.
So, I'm guessing alot of them didn't even describe in their own words that they were abducted, the people conducting the study assumed they were, on their own parameters.

So even if the numbers you claim were correct, which obviously they aren't (and thank you for pointing out that your source is the Roper poll), YOU are the one assuming they were bad experiences, that people were experienced on, impregnated and tortured, and whatever is it that you claim.

One thing is saying something based on actual numbers (even though they are contested), another thing is you interpreting something that isn't there.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by danx]

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by tezzajw

Hey, I'm very smart and I don't understand that. Religion is a bunch of lies. How can religion be one with science?

Tezzjw,
I think you are failing to see what some people are saying. There are many religions that do embrace science - and even have their own scientists (more on that below).

No, I see what they are saying. They're just wrong for saying it. Religion is not science.

kroms33

tezzajw
They're mutually exclusive ideas. Either life was created, or life evolved. You can't have it both ways.

Ok, now - the Catholic religion actually permits the belief of evolution (yes, it does). I went to a Catholic school, and back in the 80's - there was no teaching about creationalism, but only scientific evolution - I even wrote a paper on it and got an A+

What the Catholic church states is that evolution is a possibility - it all depends on when our ancient ancestors were infused with a 'soul'. According to some priests I questioned about God creating everything in seven days, they stated - 7 days to God could be billions of years for us... so they are very flexible in their thinking.

Right, so the Catholic Church believes in evolution. Then there is no need for a creator God, as we were not created. Simple.

Those priests that you asked have to be flexible in their thinking. It's the only way that they can hope to explain the logical inconsistencies in their dogmatic faith.

It's also clear that those priests don't value God's Word as being true. If they want to believe in Creation, then they have to swallow Genesis as being the literal truth. There are only seven days in a week, not billions. Why would they feel the need to try and justify a Creation Week that lasted billions of years, if they believe in scientific evolution? It's all lies and contradictions and screwed up logic.

Either we were created, or we weren't. The priests can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
after skimming that guys page, the proceedures sound more like they are preparing our species for a comming event. Who knows, maybe the greys are the intergalatic driving instructors, and seeing as we are sort of a space fareing race, they're getting us ready for teh driving test.

Let me put it to you this way...if human beings did the things to human beings that aliens are doing to them, such as abducting (kidnapping) them, and violating them by forcing them to have sexual relations without even asking their consent, and impregnating women, performing experiments on them that are often extemely painful...if humans committed such crimes they would be considered evil and would be incarcerated as soon as they could be apprehended. Yet, some people readily excuse such evil, criminal behavior in aliens. That is quite the double standard...to excuse in aliens, behavior that is inexcusable in humans.

Originally posted by SkyWay
...if human beings did the things to human beings that aliens are doing to them, such as abducting (kidnapping) them, and violating them by forcing them to have sexual relations without even asking their consent

Come on, even aliens know that 'no' means 'yes' a lot of the time!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have a U2U

[edit on 28/3/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by SkyWay
It is simple math. The numbers confirm what I wrote that approximately 4 million people have been abducted.

No, that's not what they 'confirm'.

Do the math. This is not difficult to prove. Anybody can prove my point mathematically. 119 is 2% of 6000. Then take 2% of 200 million population and the result is 4 million.

Of nearly 6,000 Americans, 119 answered in a way that Hopkins et al interpreted as supporting their ET interpretation of the abduction phenomenon.

If you read everything carefully here, they interpreted some people's experiences as abductions even though they weren't abductions, specially not in the sense of abduction that you claim.

I think YOU need to read more carefully. Here is a quote from the page

have had an encounter with extraterrestrial life (2 percent).

My emphasis added. So 2 % say they have had an actual encounter with aliens as opposed to just seeing a ufo or just seeing aliens...2% again adds up to 4 million. Danx, you really should do the math. If you did you wouldn't be arguing pointlessly.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by SkyWay
...if human beings did the things to human beings that aliens are doing to them, such as abducting (kidnapping) them, and violating them by forcing them to have sexual relations without even asking their consent

Come on, even aliens know that 'no' means 'yes' a lot of the time!

Those aliens seem to have difficulty understanding the meaning of NO even when communicating telepathically. I thought telepathy was supposed to eliminate such misunderstandings!

Sometime ago I read an account of a person who was abducted. This person was a Christian and in communicating with the "aliens" asked them if they knew Jesus and they responded that they did.

Personally I think that the aliens are not really from another planet but are actually demons. They will reveal themselves to us and will cause the faith of many to be shattered. This is all part of the great deception planned by the devil to lead people away from God. It is pretty easy to see how this can and will happen. When this does happen get ready because the end is very, very near. Keep your eyes on the sky and the middle east but those with their faith in the right place need not worry.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by cbreeze]

Originally posted by cbreeze
Sometime ago I read an account of a person who was abducted. This person was a Christian and in communicating with the "aliens" asked them if they knew Jesus and they responded that they did.

Personally I think that the aliens are not really from another planet but are actually demons. They will reveal themselves to us and will cause the faith of many to be shattered. This is all part of the great deception planned by the devil to lead people away from God. It is pretty easy to see how this can and will happen. When this does happen get ready because the end is very, very near. Keep your eyes on the sky and the middle east but those with their faith in the right place need not worry.
[edit on 28-3-2007 by cbreeze]

I agree with you completely. It is all part of a spiritual battle that has been going on for millenia. The final battle is about get under way.