Bob Lazar and Element 115

reply to post by zorgon


I don’t get the debunk either. Why is Stanton trying to debunk Bob? Doesn’t he believe that the original Majestic 12 docs are real? If they are real than it shouldn’t be a stretch of the imagination to believe that the gov was experimenting with UFO technology in the 80’s. What’s the deal? Element 115 is only a small part of Bob’s story and if I remember correctly he said 115 would never be synthesized in any substantial quantity.

reply to post by zorgon


double post

Originally posted by Beavis
Element 115 is only a small part of Bob’s story and if I remember correctly he said 115 would never be synthesized in any substantial quantity.

Element 115 is central to Bob's story for many reasons:
a) allegedly, it forms the core of the propulsion system of UFOs. That's no small deal.
b) it allows Bob to built those imaginary sketches of the UFOs inner workings, without which he has little to claim at all
c) he actually showed a sample of alleged 115 to John Lear in an episode I found hilarious. Of course the sample was stolen from Bob shortly thereafter (all according to John).

...and how convenient it is to say that no, we'll never discover it on Earth. Now you see it, now you don't!

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Absent that, in the meantime, we'll extract some comical value of Bob and his flock.

Well from what I see YOU are the only one doing that

But the 'team' of Stanton, Ed Fouche and Alienscientist have put a very hard push to reactivate Bob Bashing... it is this that interests me. Why now? Why stir the pot?

And I just popped over to Ed's page because before they had some pages of MJ 12 documents that Ed says he retypwd from originals but tossed out the originals... Now I see they are no longer there Hmmm

Well they are still here...

Fouche on MJ-12: "Attachment D"

In one post he comments

EdF: My knowledge of the CIA ‘s drugs and weapons smuggling, from my own experiences. In this case others liked in this article and myself are the ‘whistle blowers.’
Source

This bothered me so I asked what he meant, seeing as the post only only had links to Fas.org and wikipedia as backup. That question was deleted...

So I really want to know why this stirring up attacks against Bob when he washed his hands of the whole UFO scene 20 years ago. When I was told he would be on PBS I thought maybe he was coming back.. but the interview had nothing related to UFO's

There is an agenda here... I just cannot comprehend what value it has.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Bob is a liar.

Not in alumni year book?

Ya the government goes door to door erasing these.

Bob talks a lot about nothing.
He clearly knows very little about what he says.

I feel like i'm on retard pills every time I hear people defend this man.
You can easily debunk him yourself if you just learn about his mumbo jumbo.
What he says NEVER makes sense!

Of course we are going to keep producing heavier elements!
This is progression.

I can tell you about synthetic element 119.
I discovered it when i was working for darpa at Renta North air field.

It was all going smoothly until a co worker... I will call her jasper for sake of privacy, came too close to our project and ate the new element. She became a super saiyan and blasted a hole in the wall. I quickly ate some 115 and managed to shock her with my zanpakuto. We both got laid off and she disappeared and I have no proof but in time you will know I speak the truth. Me and Bob.

Th

Originally posted by zorgon
The address on this document.. at least I can verify that one

I see the social security number is redacted.

I just read for the first time the claim that his SSN belonged to a woman in NY:

What you may not realize is that there are two Bob Lazars

But Lazar did produce a W-2 form from the Department of Naval Intelligence, showing that he was paid for work done in '88. Never mind that he was paid less than $1000 for working on the most secret project in the history of the world. Scientists are woefully underpaid, you know.
Never mind, also, that Lazar's Social Security number turned out to belong to a woman in New York. I'm sure there's some reasonable explanation for that, and someday Lazar may even tell us what it is.

Anyone ever heard that claim before? I tried to verify it but it's hard with the SSN being redacted.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Absent that, in the meantime, we'll extract some comical value of Bob and his flock.

Well from what I see YOU are the only one doing that

Not just buddhasystem, that link I just posted is pretty high in comical value, it brought a smile to my face.

And other parts aren't comical at all. I know much of it is true but some claims I've never heard before, like his first wife committed suicide 2 days after she married Bob?? Is that true?

I might be making stuff up too if that happened to me (hopefully not, but you never know how something like that will affect you until it happens). Suicide is always disturbing but that seems like exceptionally bad timing.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Anyone ever heard that claim before? I tried to verify it but it's hard with the SSN being redacted.

No never heard that one before... but I expect you will shortly provide the evidence yes?
And I am not likely to post his SSN even if I did have it

Not just buddhasystem, that link I just posted is pretty high in comical value, it brought a smile to my face.

My mistake I forgot you were lurking about

And other parts aren't comical at all. I know much of it is true but some claims I've never heard before, like his first wife committed suicide 2 days after she married Bob?? Is that true?

I might be making stuff up too if that happened to me (hopefully not, but you never know how something like that will affect you until it happens). Suicide is always disturbing but that seems like exceptionally bad timing.

Not that I know of.. but then I never dealt with stuff in his personal life. Never heard that either but I will check

Of course we wouldn't want you spreading unfounded rumor either

reply to post by zorgon


What Lazar claims is extraordinary and fantastical. The smears used against him seem to be no less different. And so well put together.

Certainly, anything is possible. But some of the stuff I have seen in the last 2-3 pages of this thread denote what appears to be a pretty sophisticated smear campaign. Like Hitler said: people will believe a big lie before a little one. Not that they necessarily believe it, but rather want to believe it for novel reasons. A good story is always better, right?

I, too, am interested to see some support for a new layer of character assasination type reports. Buddhasystem...he is sometimes hit and miss. Arb, however, generally tends to have a much higher standard, and i look forward to what can be dug up.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by zorgon

 

What Lazar claims is extraordinary and fantastical. The smears used against him seem to be no less different. And so well put together.

Nature abhors the void. So this thread had to fill with something while the initial premise was tenuous. Lazar claimed that he was in possession of a few pounds of unobtainium that later vanished into the thin air. Videos of him posted on the Web reveal a liar to a discerning viewer. But of course there will always be lemmings.

Amen.

PS. Thanks for the comment i.e. "well put together". And I haven't even tried yet.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Arb, however, generally tends to have a much higher standard, and i look forward to what can be dug up.

So, you do agree with Arb that Lazar stole somebody's SSN?

reply to post by buddhasystem



No, because the only "evidence" i have is his/her statement of remembering seeing it somewhere, sometime.

That sure isn't a very high bar to set for evidence, that is for sure.

ETA: "well put together" does not include you. I am referring to the people who originally started circulating some of this stuff. You are just another "speaker", dispensing the information (for good or bad). I do not intend any insults to you. I hope you don't feel that way.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
What you may not realize is that there are two Bob Lazars

Just read that The 'Two' Bob Lazars is tongue in cheek... one the real Bob according to that blog the other being the professed Bob Just read that again

I like the way he ends it...

Sure, Lazar can't prove that he has advanced scientific degrees, or that he worked as a senior staff scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratories and S-4, or that he reverse engineered spaceship technology. He hasn't really explained why a nuclear physicist like himself would make his career developing photos for nearly a decade when he could have been teaching or conducting research. Yes, he may have fudged a few facts about his primary source of income for five years. And a few details about his work at S-4 may be slightly inconsistent and completely incomprehensible to anyone with higher brain function.

That doesn't mean he's not telling the truth.

swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com...

I was interested in this though..

Jacques Vallee's 1990 interview with Lazar is recounted in Vallee's book Revelations (Ballantine, 1991).

reply to post by Sunsetspawn


That's a great post.

We also have to keep in mind that back when Lazaar and his fellow co-workers supposely discovered "element 115", we had no idea what other elements existed other than what we already had discovered up to that point on the periodic table.

It is possible that they simply dubbed it "element 115" without even knowing whether the "REAL" element 115 would ever be scientifically discovered and identified.

Thus, it is impossible to use it as proof for or against Bob Lazaar's claims.

What we do know is that he isn't making all of it up. We now know Bob Lazaar's name was in the local phonebook when he was supposely working at Los Alamos. He was even on the front page of one of the local newspapers with a rocket car he had made that describes him as a physicist working at Los Alamos, which is exactly what he claims.

Other people have anonymously come forward to back up his claim that he was a physicist working at Los Alamos, but we still don't have definitive proof that he ever worked at Area 51, nor is it likely we will ever see it.

Back when the F-117 was in development at Area 51, they decided to burn off stealth byproducts instead of trucking it off and gaining attention to the base. That decision resulted in multiple deaths. The lawsuit that came afterwards, filed by the spouses of those dead airmen, was shot down by the government after President Clinton signed Presidential Determination 95-45.

If the government can publicly dodge acountability with regards to loss of human life resulting from poor decisions at Area 51, they can certainly privately destroy any record you ever worked there. In this sense, the government and the military can, quite literally, get away with murder. If Bob Lazaar's story is true, you have to consider the possibility that anything that could even potentially link him to Area 51 was confiscated and/or destroyed.

The only proof we are likely to come across that would support Bob Lazaar's story and claims is from other people that worked with him. It's not surprising those people would want to remain anonymous. Especially seeing what happened, publicly, to Lazaar after he came forward with what he sais he saw and worked on at Area 51.

-ChriS

reply to post by zorgon



If Lazar is being forthcoming, then it could just be that working in physics was not something that was...wise. Any field that he could, even inadvertantly, use information gained in black operations would be a no no if he liked to continue processing oxygen

Not sure if yawl saw this one yet... Nice stuff

Was saving it for a rainy day

Project Aquarius
(Special access intelligence revealed from the “Dark Side of the Moon”)
http://(nolink)/pdf/PROJECT_AQUARIUS_DOCUMENT.pdf

Originally posted by BlasteR
as a physicist working at Los Alamos, which is exactly what he claims.

So where and when did Lazar get his degree? A simple question, yet one with no answer!

Originally posted by zorgon
No never heard that one before... but I expect you will shortly provide the evidence yes?
And I am not likely to post his SSN even if I did have it

Understandable.

I found the source for a lot of those claims:

The Robert Lazar Timeline As Assembled from Public Records and Statements

The guy who did the research also removed the SSN to protect Lazar's prvacy though an incredible amount of detail is revealed other than the SSN:

1974: Social Security number issued in New York State.
RL's Social Security number and current address, while in the public records, have been deleted from this document in the interests of privacy. However, the SS # begins with 068 which indicates it was issued in the state of New York. It is possible to determine from the remainder of the SS # that it most likely was issued in 1974.

That covers the New York part but doesn't say anything about it belonging to a woman, so that part of the claim is still a mystery regarding the source.

RL is Bob Lazar and Carol was his first wife:

# April 19, 1986: RL married Tracy Anne Murk at the "We've Only Just Begun" Wedding Chapel in Las Vegas.
At the time, RL was apparently still married to Carol. No divorce proceedings were on file with the Clark County Clerk's office, and Carol's published obituaries and death certificate identified RL as her husband at the time. The minister at the wedding was William Sharp and the recorded marriage certificate was mailed to 1073 Cheyenne, Los Alamos. (OR 0765:0400067) (11)

# April 21, 1986: Carol died in Las Vegas. (4) (5)
Carol Lazar's death certificate (# 001423-86) is on file with the Clark County Health District, 625 Shadow Lane, Las Vegas, (702) 383-1223. The district will not release copies of certificates except to family members or in a few other special instances. However, the certificates are available for inspection by those with "legitimate interests". This would include journalists and researchers.
According to data on the certificate, the death was ruled a suicide and the cause was carbon monoxide poisoning.

I guess that makes him a technical polygamist though Carol's suicide resolved that issue within 2 days. That makes a lot more sense that the idea that I got from the first source that she killed herself 2 days after her own wedding, because I didn't assume he would have two wives simultaneously. That should teach me to assume!

That timeline is a fascinating read. That's the 3rd source the author listed, I checked the first two, but I don't have the last two sources:

swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com...

Notes on Sources:

Lazar's friend, Gene Huff, has written a synopsis of Lazar's experiences, first posted at alt.conspiracy.area51 in 1995 (now available here). Huff is a Vegas real estate appraiser who met Lazar in 1985 (Lazar's photo lab processed many local appraisers' property photos).

In 1993, after hearing Lazar speak at The Little A-le-Inn, Los Angeles Times reporter Roy Rivenburg checked into Lazar's credentials and background. He encountered the same lacuna that George Knapp had already found.

In 1994 Tom Mahood compiled a timeline of Lazar's work history and activities. It contains clear inconsistencies that have since been explained away, in part, by Gene Huff's synopsis.

Jacques Vallee's 1990 interview with Lazar is recounted in Vallee's book Revelations (Ballantine, 1991).

Henry Harris's comments on element 115 and UFOs can be found on p. 159 of Captured by Aliens by Joel Achenbach (Citadel, 1999).

Bob scored some points with me when I read the 2nd source by the LA Times reporter:

articles.latimes.com...

Yet, Lazar spends most of the afternoon debunking his disciples' theories. When someone asks about a UFO video shot from the space shuttle, Lazar insists that the "flying saucers" were dust particles blown across the camera lens by a rocket thruster.

And when another mentions alien abductions, underground tunnels and one-world government conspiracies, he dismisses the tales as "borderline insanity."

Way to go Bob!
Too bad the LA Times story goes downhill from there.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Arb, however, generally tends to have a much higher standard, and i look forward to what can be dug up.

So, you do agree with Arb that Lazar stole somebody's SSN?

That was a blogger's claim, not mine. I was trying to see if any of my fellow ATSers could help confirm it, or debunk it.

So far I can't confirm it's stolen and since he went to high school in New York he could have got it there as a high school student. I'm wondering if the blogger made up the part about the woman or if she has a source for that she didn't list, so I may e-mail her and ask where she got that from.

reply to post by dereks



Another simple question with no answer for you: "Who killed JFK, and why?"

By insinuation, i suppose we can surmise that no one did, since we cannot prove one or the other. And the water has been so muddied by official interference, we will never have a chance, I don't think.

The parallels, huh?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Arb, however, generally tends to have a much higher standard, and i look forward to what can be dug up.

So, you do agree with Arb that Lazar stole somebody's SSN?

That was a blogger's claim, not mine. I was trying to see if any of my fellow ATSers could help confirm it, or debunk it.

Sure, I get it. But it seems like BFFT considers it a "smear campaign".