South Tower Core Turns to Dust

Originally posted by gottago
I'm having a hard time believing all that dust in the various pics and vids was clinging to vertical columns.

And just when did it have time to settle on them?

And in the immediate aftermath of a maelstrom?

Have at it...

these box columns were perhaps filled with concrete, at least partially, so the question should be why all the concrete was blown out and how.

if my train of thought is wrong, we're in desperate need for an outlandish weapon system, which has to be capable of pulverizing steel columns without making them glow bright white in the process.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Akareyon
The question remains: why did virtually all vertical steel components on that day follow gravity, i.e. straight down, instead of toppling?

Answer: No resistance. There are only a few ways that I can think of to achieve this. And structural damage and fire aren't them.

Griff... you know physics is not my specialty...I actually was a little curious as to how this could happen and asked some questions...Point is, gravity pulls straight down. The debris that fell surrounding the core no doubt damaged the columns near the bottom. all that would have to happen is a load transfer to adjacent columns and they would fail progressively. since the core is a hollow grid of columns and not solid like a tree. there exists no fulcrum to support the core long enough for it to fall sideways. anything that would even momentarily hold as a fulcrum would instantly fail as its load was multiplied by failure of adjacent columns.

As with so very many REAL people in and around the New York Area when this took place I had this Odd feeling that it was NOT some Random Attack that it was a Put up job Or Staged then as weeks turned into months things began to click that had NOT done so before But it wasn't until I was Slapped in My Brain with Shock as I watched and listened to that little man Jumpin Rudy Giuliani that I realize why it was so very Deathly important for his Offices to Go after them with Zeel not seen since the Nuremberg trials and Imprison as many of the New York Area Mob connected Family's as possible and to do so well in advance of the Neo-Geek Globalist Repukelicons that were making ready the Switch . Now anyone of you or all of you can say whatever you like about the Mob Familys and there Lifestyles BUT IT WAS THERE SCENES OF COMMUNITY THAT WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED ANYONE TO PLACE ANYTHING IN ANY OF THOSE BUILDINGS .That We are now sure was taking place well before 9/11 ! Now aside from the FACT THAT JET-A IS REALLY JUST DRY KEROSENE maybe you folks would like to tell this poor slob How kerosene was made to burn at temps hot enough to melt some of the best hysteel in the industry! some even call it kryo-steel because of it's tough strength there is NO-WAY KEROSENE IS EVEN STILL ON EARTH ANYWHERE NEAR WHERE THE TEMPS REQUIRED TO BUCKLE MY SHOE LACES Let along that building ! So I'm going to say to all of you the exact same thing I said to the Od looking Men with dark KDs on that had a funny slinky type wire hanging out of there ear. It was a PURE DEE DO SET UP JOB and that Yomama Bin Nobody had as much to do with 9/11 As SANTA CLAUS. Now you can stay stuck where you all are and continue to do nothing and just keep getting Robbed each and every week at the gas station and at the Food store Or you can get up on your Feet and tell em to enjoy it now while they can cause soon NOT JUNE it's going to come down around there Ass and WE undo what they have spent so long doing ...

it's all a figment of our imaginations.

The lower scores in math and science in schools are now explained.

Some of us never learn. PRoof means nothing, ignorance everything.

Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Akareyon
The question remains: why did virtually all vertical steel components on that day follow gravity, i.e. straight down, instead of toppling?

Answer: No resistance. There are only a few ways that I can think of to achieve this. And structural damage and fire aren't them.

Griff... you know physics is not my specialty...I actually was a little curious as to how this could happen and asked some questions...Point is, gravity pulls straight down. The debris that fell surrounding the core no doubt damaged the columns near the bottom. all that would have to happen is a load transfer to adjacent columns and they would fail progressively. since the core is a hollow grid of columns and not solid like a tree. there exists no fulcrum to support the core long enough for it to fall sideways. anything that would even momentarily hold as a fulcrum would instantly fail as its load was multiplied by failure of adjacent columns.

Progressively, being the key word. for a structure to fall straight ALL supproting colums must fail at the same moment. Columns that fail progressively or in sequence results in a manner quite different.

sorry guys but the dust on the top of the structure while it disappears seems quite a bit to be simply falling.
Also but I am not sure on this one, isn't the steel bending? check the first and the second picture.
Damn 911 its getting weirder and weirder.

Originally posted by piacenza
sorry guys but the dust on the top of the structure while it disappears seems quite a bit to be simply falling.
Also but I am not sure on this one, isn't the steel bending? check the first and the second picture.
Damn 911 its getting weirder and weirder.

Good observaion - reminds me of where I've seen debunkers point out the buckling metal in a video somewhere as evidence of intense structural failure prior to collapse -not a sign of CD. Haven't seen many responses to that observation.
It's not my area of expertise, still undecided on demo vs. collapse. due to psych impact, real estate issues, dimness of fires, etc. I'm guessing some type of demo makes most sense. but again, I just don't know. the physics, and the building design still being unclear to me...

I've looked at it a few times now and it looks to me like the core topples over backwards, in the opposite direction to the camera. That and the lingering dust gives the illusion of falling straight down imo.

Originally posted by Long Lance....we're in desperate need for an outlandish weapon system, which has to be capable of pulverizing steel columns without making them glow bright white in the process.

Dear Long Lance:

That’s actually exactly what happened. The surface of the core columns did get super-hot and turn white in the process. But this sizzling outer layer continuously evaporated, or more accurately sublimated into white/grayish/light brownish clouds of metal vapor/dust. The neutrons coming from the hydrogen bombs cooked the steel surfaces way before they reached the rest of the metal. So the inner mass of the steel in the columns remain ‘cold’ while its surface ‘cooked away’. The columns went — little by little — straight from cold to ultra-heated (vapor). This was not a perfect transformation, so some of the framing members did drop down in chunks.

This process of sublimation is akin to throwing a cube of ice in to a scorching hot frying pan. Some of the ice will remain for a few seconds while the rest is turning into steam. But there will be no water puddling if the temperature of the pan is high enough.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

I posted this picture on another thread...but though you might like to see it here...you will see what is left of the core...didnt turn to dust as some believe... Wizard... sorry once again your proven wrong. As you can see plenty of the core truss falling horizontaly in the lower left of the photo.





[edit on 10-3-2007 by CameronFox]

Thank you Cameron Fox!

Your picture perfectly illustrates my point (posted prior to and above yours)

“The columns went — little by little — straight from cold to ultra-heated (vapor). This was not a perfect transformation, so some of the framing members did drop down in chunks.”

Also, that is a poster picture in support of the hydrogen bombs hypothesis. Assuming ATS allows I will copy it into that thread as well.

Keep up the good work!
Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

Originally posted by CameronFox
since the core is a hollow grid of columns and not solid like a tree.

You know they were laterally braced, right? The core was definitely not "a hollow grid of columns" in the sense you try to portray it. The columns were braced laterally on every single floor, and the columns themselves were massive and 47 in number. It was like an enormous grid of box columns and I-beams, all solidly connected (all bolted, welded together) up the centers of both buildings.

Think. Are the columns just going to snap off at the floor joints for each floor? Is that how steel behaves? It's not like there were even great gravity loads: the spire was only columns and bracing. Steel collapses under its own weight now?

And please don't offer a vague counter of "damage". If anything hit it that hard at the base it would have offset it and it would have still fallen sideways like a tree, just like one of the lengths of columns you can see in the footage before the rest fails. And if something fell right down between them and somehow had the force to strip the bracing, it would just only strip the bracing. You still couldn't make the columns collapse on themselves.

Originally posted by CameronFox
Point is, gravity pulls straight down. The debris that fell surrounding the core no doubt damaged the columns near the bottom. all that would have to happen is a load transfer to adjacent columns and they would fail progressively. since the core is a hollow grid of columns and not solid like a tree. there exists no fulcrum to support the core long enough for it to fall sideways. anything that would even momentarily hold as a fulcrum would instantly fail as its load was multiplied by failure of adjacent columns.

If I'm getting what you're saying correctly, you are assuming that the columns would just fail at the welds. Welds are suppossed to be stronger than the material that they weld. So, how did all the welds fail at the same time to allow the columns to just come apart and fail? I believe if it wasn't a CD conspiracy, there is a conspiracy to conceal that someone screwed up with the construction or something. Connections are also suppossed to be stronger. Why did all connections and welds fail instead of the steel? Maybe that's the real conspiracy? Who knows until we keep digging.

Originally posted by CameronFox

How did it fall that fast?

It's almost like everything failed at once.

[edit on 10-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Cameron

Do you have the rest of the photo sequence, because in that photo there the Spire is still standing and hasn't fallen yet. I too think the dust coming off it gave the illusion of it disintegrating, but I would like to see the next PHOTO in this sequence, or the next series of Photos in this sequence to see how exactly did the SPIRE fall.

Do you have those? Or is this photo of it standing the only one from this angle?



[edit on 11-3-2007 by talisman]

Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods

That’s actually exactly what happened. ...

sorry, but a nuke gives of a flash, it does not cook away slowly, does it? do you know of any example of a 'slow' nuke? besides, nuclear neutron radiation would have penetrated the entire structure, therefore affecting more than just the columns' surface. as you know, the neutron bomb was designed to kill without inflicting as much thermal damage as a normal nuke, so using neutron radiation to destroy a building seems counter-intuitive to me and the approach would require intensely focused neutron beams without sidelobes (otherwise half of manhattan would have dropped dead), not to mention leave tell-tale signs of nuclear damage. of course there's no way to tell if any samples were tested.

if i had no restraints regarding the mechanism of demolition, i'd say it was a relatively cold plasma surge vented into the buildings' main frames, spreading quickly throughout the towers, chemically and, to a lesser extent, thermally destroying structural integrity.. think of it like nictric acid that can be conducted like a current..... pure science fiction, though.

Hey Cameron a quick question: If it felt backwards that would have been a pretty big piece of steel to be missed, its higher than building 7. Don't we would have seen it in the ground? And also on your picture again please check at the steal bended differently than the first picture.

I'm intrigued about how it collapses vertically, and doesn't fall over. It doesn't matter how you try to argue it; you have beams stacked one on top of the other (but attached to each other, obviously). If there is a single point of failure lower down, they will fall sideways.

To get them to collapse vertically, means they ALL have to fail AT THE SAME TIME to remove any pivot point that would otherwise dictate the direction of any fall.

I don't buy the H bomb theory at all. Just get a Geiger counter; that place will be hot for years!

Here's another view of the spire turning to dust:



And h/t to CF for posting the photo of the spire sizzling with dust plumes rolling off it. How exactly, that?

Look at the spire in CF's photo closely. You can see the steel is incredibly weakened and flabby; it looks like it was wood from an old Spanish gallion dredged up from the bottom of the sea. How that?

And just where did most of the mass of the building go? It sure ain't in the wreckage pile--WTC7 had a higher wreckage pile than either of the Twin Towers:



That to me looks like the smoldering ruins of a bombing, like a war scene. A modern war scene.

What energy force turned most of WTC 1 & 2 into a 2-inch coating of micro-fine dust that covered lower Manhattan?

And even if you maintain the spire was dust-laden and fell, why that enormous quantity of dust coming off it? Where is it coming from?

It just pushes the real question away to the next level--you've got to explain the missing building mass and all that dust.

I thought ATS members were rather serious folks....looks like I was wrong. Tell your photoshop friend that it was quite funny. End.