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posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
That's the problem with people these days. No one cares for each other it's only about "me, me, me" If that's the way you feel then maybe you can keep the small ammount of money taken out of your check and use it to buy yourself some compassion. What ever happened to people giving to help those less fortunate than themselves. It's a sad state of affairs when people are so greedy they have a problem with helping those that need it.


Shaun, now this I can agree with. You see, this whole issue is complex... There are people who certainly need help and that's fine,but when it gets to the point, as it is with many, to where all you do is help someone and you never see any improvement in their situation. Then something needs to change.




posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 10:29 AM
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what about the people scamming the system, having 5 kives to get more walefare. what about them. and about those that are less fortunate, most of them could have changed who they are today by making better dicesions in the past. but then again there are people that tried and somthing went wrong and a little help to get back on there feet i beleive in helping them but not the ones who scam the system or the ones that dont even try to get off walefare and be better.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Azazelus
MauiStacey - Might I ask what you do for a living, in that the measily fraction of your taxes that goes towards the Welfare system puts a strain on your budget?

I understand if you do not wish to say, but much like other topics around here, I don't understand the anger towards a system made to help people in need...

Again, if the roles were reversed, I wonder if you would feel so strongly....

I am sorry, that we sit here and debate a system that helps more people than it harms....

Life must be harsh for you, if you think you deserve your fraction of a cent more than a child that has NO choice on who their parents are or if they are here legally, or even if their parents are lazy and choose to look after their own selves rather than the life they brought into this world.....What did these children do to you?

As for the people that abuse the system, no, I do not say it is ok....but...Have you never taken advantage of any situation to benefit yourself?

Humans...bah...so self centered and unwilling to help their fellow man....


Yes, you may ask. I am an accountant.

It does matter to me a great deal what I, and millions of other tax payers are paying.

The point is people are abusing the system. People are stealing from it!


I don't mind the people getting it that honestly need it. That is what it is there for. Not for a bunch of lazy criminals to leech of off.

People are taking benefits from welfare and SS and NOT PUTTING BACK INTO IT. At some point it's going to RUN DRY. And you better believe I'm MAD at paying into it for 20 years and not being able to get that back out.
I WORKED FOR IT LEGALLY! THEY STOLE IT FROM ME!

What about when I do need some kind of assistance. I won't be able to get any even though I pay my fair share for all the dead beats and the illegals. Insurance is very expensive, if I want a certain operation. I get to pay $8,000 extra out of my pocket because the illegals are bankrupting our hospitals. Is that fair? I work, pay my taxes and yet still get penalized because our governments keeps handing out freebies to criminals. ILLEGALS ARE CRIMINALS!

I raised my kids alone too. My Ex never paid a dime in child support. I put myself through college. I asked for day care assistance. Hell, I was only 19 years old. I was told I made too much money to get assistance. We could barely afford to eat. We lived on tomato soup. I weighed 90 pounds, but I kept on trucking on because I knew someday it would be worth it. We struggled very hard. I look back and have no idea how we made it, but we did. The system really does not help people who are TRYING to help themselves.

Let me give you an example of ILLEGALS that feel entitled to programs they HAVE NOT PAID INTO and probably WILL NEVER PAY INTO. We don’t owe them anything!

“”””””Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country
protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of
illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders,
might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay
indefinitely.

As far as "professional welfare mothers" go. They should not be having children if they cannot afford them.

Bleeding hearts make me sick. People need to start taking accountability for their actions and start helping themselves instead of STEALING FROM THE GOVERNMENT!

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I
leave.

But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the
laundry and swept the floors.

I've done all the things you don't like to do.

I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house

You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan

You are Required to Educate my kids

You are Required to Provide other benefits to me and to my

family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also

hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my

friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my

RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I

do, and I'm just trying to better myself.

I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know,

I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost

of my keep””””””””””

There is nothing you can do about it without being

accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted
behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!!

so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America

I will say again. I have NO PROBLEM with those that get benefits who TRULY deserve them.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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Our society set itself up to have a sub class of citizens who live off the system. In most cases it is intergenerational and learned behaviour.

Another factor in this mix is that a good percent of Americans are one or two paydays from losing their home, etc.

With plant closings and jobs being shipped overseas gainful employment is harder than ever to find.

It is easy to victimize the poor and sick, isn't it.

If you care so much about where your money is going then why don't you get involved with an agency who sees and helps the poor with ulitlity bills, etc.

Besides you do want the poor to continue having babies so someone can die in your wars.

You people are tainted in your mean view. People who use or don't use the system are simply people. Each has it's own set of circumstance.

If you are going to single out the poor then look deeper into the social dilemmas that have created a subculture of society of people who can't run thier own lives for whatever reasons.

Who are you to judge the circumstances that created the situation.

Why do you think that most poor people are overweight? Because they can't afford any entertainment or social activities so they eat cheap fattening foods often the only pleasure they have.

It has been a slow programming of folks that fostered the dependency on the system. An unspoken message sent that "you can't handle things, leave it to us, sign on the dotted line"

There is also a bit of discrimination. Did you grow up in the ghetto and have to compete with 100 people just like you to get one job at the local liquor store.

Some girls that have babies have them because that is the only chance they see in their lives to have someone to love. Right or wrong, this is often the reality.

Instead of them keeping their legs shut you should keep your mouth shut.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:11 PM
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You are MISSING the point.

We are saying the people who ABUSE the system. Not the ones who genuinly need it and use it for it's intended purpose.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for some young girl having a kid to love and not being able to support it. There are too many of them out there.

It should not be the responsible American's duty to take care of the irresponsible ones. Especially if done intentionally. Think about your statement, it's absurd.

I'm not cold hearted. I'm being realistic.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:13 PM
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Who are you to judge the circumstances that created the situation.


Okay...Then why should we be obligated to correct it then? You see, if I am good enough to give my hard earned money to someone, at the very least I should be owed an explanation as to why, and an effort from that individual to better themselves. I don't think we are getting that.Thank ya.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by MauiStacey

I WORKED FOR IT LEGALLY! THEY STOLE IT FROM ME!



The money we spend on helping others is next to nothing in comparison to a military that has NEARLY NO defensive capability and is NEARLY PURELY for offense to protect our multinational corporations.

Did you know that NONE of your federal income tax dollars goes towards helping ANYONE? The entire thing goes to the world banks in the form of interest and the military industrial complex for an offensive military that has NOTHING to do with protecting our nation. NOTHING.

Wake up please wake up!



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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Right this argument can be answered and ended here and now, stop spending trillions on arms, and redistribute wealth, 10% of Americans own 90% of the wealth and they dont need it.

And before anyone starts, no I'm not a commi, or a socialiost or a liberal, I have worked all my life from the age of seven. I believe in having systems where the stronger support the weak.

For those who point the finger of accusation at those who fiddle the system that is nothing compared to the billions that is ripped off by the corporations, How many fraud scandles have you had in the US, so for all those fiddling a few dollars there are others fiddling much more.

Its normal for those with money to point the finger of blame at the less well off or the dodgers rather than pointing it the other way.

Every society wants and needs an underclass who will clean their # up and be dogs bodies to every one above them. Irrespective of the political view this has always been the case.

We can all live longer by enjoying safe food, good health care and housing, work for all if we just tone down the money making side of it.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Right this argument can be answered and ended here and now, stop spending trillions on arms, and redistribute wealth, 10% of Americans own 90% of the wealth and they dont need it.



All of that's well and good.However, let me ask you a question. Before you ask, no I am not rich I am a college student that does good to eat. However, on the redistributing the wealth thing.... I have to ask you a question and I want you to answer it....

Don't you think that is punishing people for being successful in life?



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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Hi Speaker, Its about a balance, no you cannot curb natural talent or wanting to get on nor would I want to but does the amount of money made by massive corporations which usually means individuals who dont need it, where do you draw the line, how many houses, cars do you need to own.

We need to find a middle ground with no extremes everyone has a right to a basic standard are living, while we strive for the next new car Millions are dying for want of the basic things in life, water, food to eat etc. Many people, rich and not so well off make many good gestures to those in need but more needs to be done.

As an example as our family has grown up we decided that the money we would normally spend on crimbo we would give to world charities, no I 'm not rich by Western standards but to many others in this world we live like kings and queens.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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Who can't take care of themselves yes...

People who pop out more to get a new bonus no...

The rest should be cut off after a couple of months.

All and all i don't know why we whine so much about subjects like this when we send out how many billions of dollars to everybody elses poor. Maybe we should, at least we should take care of the one in our own back yard before we start taking care of everyone elses.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Royal76]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Hi Speaker, Its about a balance, no you cannot curb natural talent or wanting to get on nor would I want to but does the amount of money made by massive corporations which usually means individuals who dont need it, where do you draw the line, how many houses, cars do you need to own.



You actually bring up something that I address on a pretty regular basis. It's amazing to me how much in excess people have. Hell, people are not even raising their children anymore because they think both mommy and daddy have to work so they can buy the 300,000 dollar home and drive the 60,000 dollar gas guzzling suv around. In the mean time, everything else goes to hell.

The corporations. Well, the corporations have always been about doing one thing and they have done it well. Making money.

Like I said, I have no problem with helping people. However, there has to be a limit. You can't just continue to help someone and never see any improvement in his/her condition. You know, it's like when I see a homeless person on the street. Yeah, my heart says to help them, but I have been around enough to know that you could give that person 200 dollars and tell them: "Go get yourself something to eat and some clean clothes," and tomorrow, guess what. They are in the same shape they were in when you gave them the money to get them food and some new clothes. They have taken the money and spent it on some addiction.

I am all for helping others as long as I see progress. If there is no progress with that person, I have nothing to say,do or give to that person. I help those who are willing to make an effort to help themselves. Otherwise, in my book, to hell with ya. I hate to feel that way, but that is how I feel.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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Whatever the concencus, you better figure out a way to get those on the breadline to work harder. Many portfolios and end of year bonuses rely on these layabouts. My stock options will be shot without the serfs slaving it for at least the next three months.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 06:20 AM
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I'm just wondering, and I didn't have time to read through all the posts but....

when you say welfare, what aide program do you mean...
there's Aid to Dependent Families or AFDC.......one of the main qualifications for this program is there needs to be a child who is being denied the support of one of their parents....the amount of money a family gets from this program usually isn't much Missouri's policy is this:

--------------------------------

To be eligible to receive AFDC in Missouri, a family must have:

* At least one child under the age of 18 in the home who is deprived of parental support because of the absence of one or both parents, or because of a parent's disability.

* Available resources under $1000. A car valued under $1000 and a house are the only exceptions.

* A monthly income less than $342 for a family of four, $292 for a family of three, and $234 for a family of two.

The amount of money a family receives from AFDC each month depends on its income. For example, the maximum AFDC cash payment for a family of four is $342 a month. If a family earns $300 a month, then it would receive $42 from AFDC.

www.mdn.org...

--------------------------------------------------------------

afdc doesn't pay enough to do much of anything with, but usually, if you qualify for that, you get an automatic ticket for all the other programs, food stamps, hud, heap, medicaid, ect, ect......

If you are referring to afdc as being welfare, well, you're missing the bulk of the bananza, it's not squat to the other programs....
if you're including all these other programs into the meaning of welfare, well, I think you should take a look at the guidelines for these other programs.....the income eligibility for many of them is quite a bit higher that minimum wage!! and there's alot of hard working families, including many that are dependent on a member of the armed forces....that are depending on these programs to make ends meet...

what, are you saying that while these guys are over in Iraq and Iran getting blown up, we should kill these programs and kick their families out onto the streets? maybe we can convert walter reid into a shelter for them...

it strikes me as very ironic that the same group that is constantly griping about "welfare" are the same ones that are so gung ho to pull men out of good paying jobs to ship them over to war, so anti minimum wage increase, and so anti healthcare reform. so anti anything that could possibly improve the situation...

as long as the employers don't want to pay a decent wage for a decent days work...their employees are going to be looking to the government to make up the difference....has anyone thought of the backlash that would happen if the government said no to them? would they still work while the landlord kicked them out of their home, or the kids cried because the were hungry. would their employers finally decide it might be a good idea to increase their wage?
face it, one way or the other, these people will have their needs met, either through their wages or through government programs, and you will end up paying for it, either through taxes, or through higher prices.....
the only alternative is to go without their goods or services.

now, if you are talking only about afdc, then you are talking about primarily about one parent, usually the women, who is trying to raise young children alone, or maybe someone who is handicapped, and there is usually a good reason why they can't work!! and, well, look at all the men out there who are bellyaching about how unfair it is for them to take child support from them!!



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 08:35 AM
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It is a really hard thing to have others spending your money for you, before you ever get it, actually lots of our money we will never even see.

Taxes, social programs, fixing the roads, wars, etc.......

Always those we elect to keep telling us how to spend the money we made at work. Almost two days a week out of five.

But ya know what? You are misguiding blaming the "system users" the system is set up to fail, naturally there will be little accountablility. But don't blame the people who need help. Blame those who are telling us to give them our money. Our elected officials??? What????

We are slaves and it isn't the fault of those who are getting assistance in some form.






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