work harder people on walefare depend on you

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X

I'm glad to see people that share my point of view

I agree with you theres alot of things that are sickening in this thread, but as long as there's people that care for the wellbeing of fellow human beings there's still hope for those that really need help.

Cool.

I was just browsing the Anon forum and saw this post.

his anonymous post is in response to ATS thread: work harder people on walefare depend on you

I'm posting this anonymously because I'm ashamed for being on welfare. I live in Tasmania which is technically in recession so work is hard to come by.
8 months ago my job(old age carer) died when my mum passed away. Since then I haven't been able to get employment which has left be deeply depressed and I've developed an anxiety disorder to boot.

Yeah survival of the fittest, I guess I should do everyone a favour and end it all. It's bad enough that my self esteem is rock bottom without people pointing out that IAM the cause for the high taxes.

Question: how much would you save per week if there was no welfare tax?

It is best we not single people out. Until we walk in another human's moccasains we should not speak for who/what they are or aren't.

Anon poster.
Don't be embarrassed we all are born with inherent value you are as valuable as any other breathing creature.

Exactly, that's the thing that gets to me. People passing judgement on a whole group of people because a few are abusing the system. I can guarantee people wouldn't be saying alot of these things if they had to walk a mile in these peoples shoes. People should not get too down if they need to be on welfare. They can at least take comfort in the fact that some people care enough to make sure they can live when they're down on their luck. Besides above all else this is the US Gov't we're talking about. Taxes will always be there, just be glad that some of them are going towards helping people out instead of lining politicians pockets with gold.

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X

Originally posted by wagnerian21
The mentally disturned should be locked away from society in institutions where they cannot do any harm and where they would be cared for.

Lock away the mentally disturbed eh? Do you know how many people suffer from depression, bipolar disorder, low level schizophrenia and the like who have jobs and work? Millions. Just because someone has a mental disorder doesn't mean they have to be locked away when they aren't a threat to anyone. Theres a lot of people whho are on disability because of mental illness. Most of them would love to have a job but their disorder prohibits them from being able to do so. I would love to see you apply this heartless answer to yourself if you were ever in one of those peoples shoes.

I`m well aware of the stats on mental illness, thanks. And I wasn`t exactly referring to the high-functioning mentally ill- if they happen to be well enough to get a job and act in accordance with their own best interests, more power to them. What I was referring to were individuals with debilitating, insurmountable mental disabilities, for whom, to be thrown into society and expected to survive on their own would be inhumane.

And were I ever to be in that position, I would apply my philosophy to myself without hesitation. Ethics only has meaning if the advocate thereof lives in accordance with his or her own ethical system. And in this particular case, were I ever to be struck with some sort of debilitating illness, I would certanly *hope* that someone who shares my ethical system would be kind enough to recognize my situation for what it is and place me into some sort of care facility where I could recieve treatment- which is exactly what I`m advocating.

Originally posted by wagnerian21
The mentally disturned should be locked away from society in institutions where they cannot do any harm and where they would be cared for.

And in this particular case, were I ever to be struck with some sort of debilitating illness, I would certanly *hope* that someone who shares my ethical system would be kind enough to recognize my situation for what it is and place me into some sort of care facility where I could recieve treatment- which is exactly what I`m advocating.

Locked away from society where they can't do harm.

In a facility to receive treatment?

Clockwork Orange style, or One flew over the Cukoo's Nest?

Originally posted by interestedalways
That person who wrote about a woman who should "just keep her legs shut" reveals a very shallow way of thinking.

Shallow, eh? I guess it`s shallow in your view to think every child DESERVES loving, attentave parents who have his or her own best interests at heart.

The right to reproduce is inherent to all people, not just those who are able to afford children. We all have the right to continue our bloodline.

Sorry, no. You want to say everyone has the inalienable right to reproduce, yeah, fine. But no one should have the 'right' to demand another person`s wallet to support the result of your right to reproduce. No one should be able to rip food out of the mouth of another person`s child to give it to their own.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, I gathered by your comment I quoted you were saying all mentally ill people should be institutionalized, my bad. I agree that some should be institutionalized but my caveat for that is only if they are a danger to themselves and others. If they're mentally ill beyond being able to work I believe they have the right just like everyone else to live their life free and the way they choose. When they become dangerous to themselves or others than institutions are the only humane answer.

Originally posted by interestedalways

Originally posted by wagnerian21
The mentally disturned should be locked away from society in institutions where they cannot do any harm and where they would be cared for.

And in this particular case, were I ever to be struck with some sort of debilitating illness, I would certanly *hope* that someone who shares my ethical system would be kind enough to recognize my situation for what it is and place me into some sort of care facility where I could recieve treatment- which is exactly what I`m advocating.

Locked away from society where they can't do harm.

In a facility to receive treatment?

Clockwork Orange style, or One flew over the Cukoo's Nest?

Just utterly set on making me look like the bad guy here, eh?

That isn`t what I meant and you damned well know it.

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, I gathered by your comment I quoted you were saying all mentally ill people should be institutionalized, my bad. I agree that some should be institutionalized but my caveat for that is only if they are a danger to themselves and others. If they're mentally ill beyond being able to work I believe they have the right just like everyone else to live their life free and the way they choose. When they become dangerous to themselves or others than institutions are the only humane answer.

No apology necessary- I should have been more clear with my original statement.

It seems we`re in perfect agreement on that point anyway.

Sorry, no. You want to say everyone has the inalienable right to reproduce, yeah, fine. But no one should have the 'right' to demand another person`s wallet to support the result of your right to reproduce. No one should be able to rip food out of the mouth of another person`s child to give it to their own.

And how is welfare "demanding" someone elses money and taking food out of the mouth of another child? That's the problem with people these days. No one cares for each other it's only about "me, me, me" If that's the way you feel then maybe you can keep the small ammount of money taken out of your check and use it to buy yourself some compassion. What ever happened to people giving to help those less fortunate than themselves. It's a sad state of affairs when people are so greedy they have a problem with helping those that need it.

Originally posted by wagnerian21

Originally posted by interestedalways

Originally posted by wagnerian21
The mentally disturned should be locked away from society in institutions where they cannot do any harm and where they would be cared for.

And in this particular case, were I ever to be struck with some sort of debilitating illness, I would certanly *hope* that someone who shares my ethical system would be kind enough to recognize my situation for what it is and place me into some sort of care facility where I could recieve treatment- which is exactly what I`m advocating.

Locked away from society where they can't do harm.

In a facility to receive treatment?

Clockwork Orange style, or One flew over the Cukoo's Nest?

Just utterly set on making me look like the bad guy here, eh?

That isn`t what I meant and you damned well know it.

And you are right, I exagerated and scapegoated you because of the whole tone of the thread.

Your spirit in what you said wasn't necessarily mean and I apologize.

Originally posted by interestedalways

Originally posted by wagnerian21

Originally posted by interestedalways

Originally posted by wagnerian21
The mentally disturned should be locked away from society in institutions where they cannot do any harm and where they would be cared for.

And in this particular case, were I ever to be struck with some sort of debilitating illness, I would certanly *hope* that someone who shares my ethical system would be kind enough to recognize my situation for what it is and place me into some sort of care facility where I could recieve treatment- which is exactly what I`m advocating.

Locked away from society where they can't do harm.

In a facility to receive treatment?

Clockwork Orange style, or One flew over the Cukoo's Nest?

Just utterly set on making me look like the bad guy here, eh?

That isn`t what I meant and you damned well know it.

And you are right, I exagerated and scapegoated you because of the whole tone of the thread.

Your spirit in what you said wasn't necessarily mean and I apologize.

Hey, it`s cool- I think this is an easy subject to get heated about, I`m guilty of it too. Fuggitaboutit.

Touche'



Ocassionaly the one line post rule ruins my moment!

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X

Sorry, no. You want to say everyone has the inalienable right to reproduce, yeah, fine. But no one should have the 'right' to demand another person`s wallet to support the result of your right to reproduce. No one should be able to rip food out of the mouth of another person`s child to give it to their own.

And how is welfare "demanding" someone elses money and taking food out of the mouth of another child? That's the problem with people these days. No one cares for each other it's only about "me, me, me" If that's the way you feel then maybe you can keep the small ammount of money taken out of your check and use it to buy yourself some compassion. What ever happened to people giving to help those less fortunate than themselves. It's a sad state of affairs when people are so greedy they have a problem with helping those that need it.

You just answered your own question when you made reference to the money being "taken out of (your) check". It`s mandatory, demanded. I have no problem with charity, and I have been known to be rather charitable myself on rare and widely spaced occasions , but it`s not charity when it`s withdrawn from your posession without your consent.

It can be said it's without your consent, but the Gov't doesn't really wait for anyones concent to do anything do they? I DO understand where you're coming from there, and sorry if I've been a bit harsh in my replies. The best thing I can say about the tax is it's there and itll probably stay. Someone once said the only certain things in life are death and taxes. I know if welfare was ran like a charity that people would still get the assistance they need because people would donate. But I'm not gonna go on my tangent about taxes, I'll be here all night about that. .

Our anonymous poster from earlier returned I thought I'd post what they wrote.

anon_101382
When all is said and done it comes down to dollars and cents, right!? I bet imprisoned criminals costs the state more per person then welfare recipients.
wagnerian21 idea of locking up the mentally ill disturbed/undesirables into institutions is going to end up costing you more because you need professional carers/wardens etc. Naturally someone has to pay for that or are you suggesting these people should fend for themselves in these institutions.
I completely agree with ShAuNmAn-X people on welfare who abuse the system should be punished *and* publicly shamed imo
ps thank you interestedalways

[edit on 3/9/2007 by ShAuNmAn-X]