United planes were told to secure cockpit

How did the terrorist surprise the pilots when they had orders to secrure thier cockpit doors and messeages were sent out warning of hijackings ?

www.globalsecurity.org...

At 9:21 United dispatchers are told to advise their flights to secure cockpit doors.
At 9:24 a United dispatcher sends a “Beware of cockpit intrusion . . . Two aircraft in NY hit Trade Center Builds” message to Flight 93. Flight 93 responds to this message at 9:26 , requesting that the dispatcher confirm the latest message.

perhaps it was already too late and they had taken over?

just a thought

Originally posted by Crakeur
perhaps it was already too late and they had taken over?

just a thought

At least Flight 93 pilots had responded to the hijack message. They should have been looking out for anything.

well if you think long and hard about if the pilots knew about the hijackings they could have prevented it and dont all commercial planes have air marshals on them?? Or maybe the pilots were in on it to???

Wow. No, all flights did not have Air Marshalls on them. That didn't happen until after 9/11 and is still questionable.

People don't always follow instruction, even in the most critical of situations.
Say a hijacker has a box cutter to a flight attendant's throat and makes her knock at the cockpit door. He tells her/him that if they don't do this, they'll never see their families agin. When the pilot/co-pilot ask for identification, the flight attendant identifies her/himself. Hijacker is in the cockpit...

Originally posted by DOcean
People don't always follow instruction, even in the most critical of situations.

True enough and it's far too easy to forget the easy going attitude to in flight security that used to exist.

Flying home to the UK from Italy on the Monday after 9/11 I was able to spend the whole flight watching the the cockpit through the open door.

Originally posted by DOcean
Wow. No, all flights did not have Air Marshalls on them. That didn't happen until after 9/11 and is still questionable.

People don't always follow instruction, even in the most critical of situations.
Say a hijacker has a box cutter to a flight attendant's throat and makes her knock at the cockpit door. He tells her/him that if they don't do this, they'll never see their families agin. When the pilot/co-pilot ask for identification, the flight attendant identifies her/himself. Hijacker is in the cockpit...

Sorry but Air Marshalls were around long before 911, they used to be called Sky Marshalls. they are not put on every aircraft and some aircraft have more then 1.

But with the pilots recieving the message about the other hijackings why did they not make a call or use the emergency code on the transponder to signal a hijacking. In fact out of 4 planes not 1 plane got off a call or signal, what are the odds of that ?

Also the pilot of flight 77 was a vietnam vet and his family and friends have stated that he would not have givin up control of his aircraft without a fight.


[edit on 8-3-2007 by ULTIMA1]

they entered and slit the throats of the pilot and co-pilot as the first thing when they got into the cockpits.

Through the door one hand on the head the other at the throat, cut, turn, back hand the co-pilot with the hand holding the razor. inside flick the wrist turning the blade on the co-pilots throat.

pull bodies aside, sit down, fiddle with controls responders etc, get on mic tell passengers we have bombs stay calm, we are returning to the airport.

30 - 40 seconds tops



[edit on 8-3-2007 by robertfenix]

Originally posted by robertfenix
they entered and slit the throats of the pilot and co-pilot as the first thing when they got into the cockpits.

Through the door one hand on the head the other at the throat, cut, turn, back hand the co-pilot with the hand holding the razor. inside flick the wrist turning the blade on the co-pilots throat.

pull bodies aside, sit down, fiddle with controls responders etc, get on mic tell passengers we have bombs stay calm, we are returning to the airport.

30 - 40 seconds tops



[edit on 8-3-2007 by robertfenix]

Only problem is according to the flight attendent on flight 77 who made a call was that the pilots and crew were taken to the back of the plane, the pilots were not killed. So that would suggest the pilots gave up control of the aircraft, somethign they are not suposed to do.


[edit on 8-3-2007 by ULTIMA1]

"Not supposed to" ....BUT....what if the high-jackers said... "Come to the back of the plane...if not, we have a bomb and we will detonate it"

The pilots, I think would want to ensure the safety of the passengers and craft. Just my 2 cents.

To think the pilots were "in on it" is a joke!

indeed Ultima. The plane wasn't hijacked until about 9:37, about ten minutes after they agreed to lock the door. Doesn't mean they did... wouldn't be easily coaxed out but maybe... to planes hit bulidings in NY remember, NOT a time to let anyone kill you and take control.

You can't lock out remote control overrides so easily. I hate to say it, but that's still a possibility, and evidence like this points clearly to it... as well as no hijack warnings getting out.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
indeed Ultima. The plane wasn't hijacked until about 9:37, about ten minutes after they agreed to lock the door. Doesn't mean they did... wouldn't be easily coaxed out but maybe... to planes hit bulidings in NY remember, NOT a time to let anyone kill you and take control.

You can't lock out remote control overrides so easily. I hate to say it, but that's still a possibility, and evidence like this points clearly to it... as well as no hijack warnings getting out.

Just seems odd that other hijacked planes have gotten off calles or signals. Seems like high odds that out of 4 planes no one got off a call or signal.

The auto pilot on a 757 / 767 can be preprogrammed or remote programmed. According to NTSB the bloack boxes at the Penta gon had the auto pilot programmed for Reagen National.

Sorry but Air Marshalls were around long before 911, they used to be called Sky Marshalls. they are not put on every aircraft and some aircraft have more then 1.

Read more carefully. I did not say Air Marshalls did not exist. I said that an Air Marshall was not required to be on every plane prior to 9/11. I believe they are now, but it's a crap shoot if it's actually happening or not.

Originally posted by DOcean
Read more carefully. I did not say Air Marshalls did not exist. I said that an Air Marshall was not required to be on every plane prior to 9/11. I believe they are now, but it's a crap shoot if it's actually happening or not.

I think it would be a little tough for them to be on every plane, thier are not that many Air Marshalls.

More information on warnings sent to 911 flights.

67.FAA audio file,Herndon Command Center,line 5114,9:07:13;FAA audio file,Herndon Command Center,position 15,9:19.At 9:07,Boston Air Traffic Control Center recommended to the FAA Command Center that a cockpit warning be sent to the pilots of all commercial aircraft to secure their cockpits.While Boston Center sent out such warnings to the commercial flights in its sector, we could find no evidence that a nationwide warning was issued by the ATC system.

68. Ellen King interview (Apr. 5, 2004). FAA air traffic control tapes indicate that at 9:19 the FAA Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Herndon ordered controllers to send a cockpit warning to Delta 1989
because, like American 11 and United 175, it was a transcontinental flight departing Boston’s Logan Airport.

69.For American Airlines’response,see AAL briefing (Apr.26,2004).For Ballinger’s warnings,see Ed Ballinger interview (Apr. 14, 2004).


On FDR,see NTSB report,“Specialist’s Factual Report of Investigation—Digital Flight Data Recorder” for United Airlines Flight 93,Feb.15,2002;on CVR,see FBI report,“CVR from UA Flight #93,”Dec.4,2003;
Commission review of Aircraft Communication and Reporting System (ACARS) messages sent to and from Flight 93 (which indicate time of message transmission and receipt); see UAL record, Ed Ballinger ACARS log, Sept. 11, 2001. At 9:22, after learning of the events at the World Trade Center, Melody Homer, the wife of co-pilot Leroy Homer,had an ACARS message sent to her husband in the cockpit asking if he was okay.See UAL record,ACARS message, Sept. 11, 2001.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by robertfenix
they entered and slit the throats of the pilot and co-pilot as the first thing when they got into the cockpits.

Through the door one hand on the head the other at the throat, cut, turn, back hand the co-pilot with the hand holding the razor. inside flick the wrist turning the blade on the co-pilots throat.

pull bodies aside, sit down, fiddle with controls responders etc, get on mic tell passengers we have bombs stay calm, we are returning to the airport.

30 - 40 seconds tops

I can see you have never killed anything by cutting its throat. It takes between 5 and 10 min. to die and its fighting and raising hell the hole time. I think you've been watching to many movies.


[edit on 8-3-2007 by robertfenix]

The Sky Marshal program was essentially terminated for several years prior to 9/11. There were a grand total of 33 sky marshals before 9/11. They were, and are still put randomly on flights as a deterrent. The passengers never know if the flight has an air marshal on it or not.

As for the warning, it wouldn't matter if they locked the door or not, because it was incredibly easy to break those doors down. Until they were reinforced you could kick through them in two or three kicks.

As for getting the pilots out of the cockpit, as someone else said, they could threaten to blow the plane up if they didn't. And the article says the pilot, not both pilots. So it's entirely possible that they killed one of them, and threatened the other one if he didn't turn the cockpit over to them.

Originally posted by Paul3
they entered and slit the throats of the pilot and co-pilot as the first thing when they got into the cockpits.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by robertfenix]

FAA protocol is to go along with hijakers but not to turn over control of the plane.

Problem is a call from the flight attendent on flight 77 stated that the terrorist moved the pilots and aircrew to the back of the plane, they were not killed. Family and friends of the pilot all stated that he would not have given up the plane without a fight. (he was a Vietnam vet)

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Family and friends of the pilot all stated that he would not have given up the plane without a fight. (he was a Vietnam vet)

So what is your counter theory?

That the same guy who would never give up without a fight was either:

a.Complicit in mass murder of American citizens.

b.Killed by the American government with all of the other passengers.

c.Some other made up nonsense with no evidence.

I think it unfair to put suspicion on the actions of pilots who died in an unprecedented attack. People act strange in high stress situations, and someone who would "never give up" might act differently if they thought that giving up would save many more lives.



[edit on 5-4-2007 by LeftBehind]

Originally posted by LeftBehind
So what is your counter theory?
[edit on 5-4-2007 by LeftBehind]

Weel not sure but it is also strange that out of 4 planes not 1 person got off an emergency call or an emergency signal. Other hijaked aircraft have gotten off a call or signal.