UK Muslims: 'Ban' Un-Islamic Schools

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There's nothing against the law for wanting something, is there?

Well if it is done in the US;

A. This isn't in the US
B. No it wouldn't be against the law. The school can't establish a particular religion. But they certainly can make accomodations for all religions who attend.
C. There's nothing against the law about WANTING something. There's nothing wrong with ASKING for something. I don't care HOW 'illegal' it would be to get it, there's no law against asking.

Besides, they were told NO. Have you read your thread?

what I am saying here is they are asking for special privileges i.e., give us special private pool etc.,

Where did they ask for a private pool? You're quoting the same stupid opinion piece POS that The time lord put up as an "article". I'm so done with the ignorance you guys are displaying. I expected more from you, shots. Really.

Nowhere in the MCB Document does it mention Government pools or demand ANYTHING.

What do you guys have against reading??? You can use a Find command. It's EASY!

And are you willing to give up all Christmas and Easter celebration in school? Because what you're doing is against the Constitution!

I'm going to stick my neck into the fray and, hopefully, not regret it.

If a certain group wants things specific to that group in a country that is predominantly another group, is the demand for minority changes reasonable? I don't think so.

The needs of the many have traditionally dominated in any country. That's the way society works.

People in the UK and the US are free to move elsewhere if the current country isn't a comfortable fit.

My family did it, leaving Germany in the late 1800's. Thousands of Europeans from many countries came to the US for a fresh start. And what did they do when they got here?

They learned the native language. They respected the existing laws. They got jobs. They didn't make demands specific to their origins or beliefs, but assimilated with the mainstream culture.

People cannot expect sovereign countries to bend over backwards for every minority interest. All that accomplishes is the destruction of the country.

Need an example? Just look at the US, the melting pot that is itself melting. Why? Because everybody wants recognition for their "cause" and accommodations for things unique to it.

People need to learn to be reasonable in their demands and expectations. The huge number of people on this planet means that we need to recognize what we reasonably can and cannot change and what we can and cannot afford to do.

If the Muslims want special accommodations for their people they should build their own schools to address the need instead of asking the majority to bend to their will.

Originally posted by infinite
*sighs*

For the 5th time! its Britain not England! England has not existed since 1707

Well then, to be fair it's about bloody time it did, isn't it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

A. This isn't in the US

I realize that and that is why I stated if it was in the US

Where did they ask for a private pool?

What don't you read the british papers and it is not a private pool they want a government pool as I understand.

Thornley Heath leisure centre in Croydon, London, which has set aside one afternoon a week for Muslim swimmers

And are you willing to give up all Christmas and Easter celebration in school? Because what you're doing is against the Constitution!

Um we already have been forced to give it up by the likes of the ACLU and others already DUH.

I don't base my opinions on one article or this post alone. Like I said even if the government said 'NO' to this particular issue so be it. This whole post be it true or false does not change the patterns of other grand demands that Islam clearly states incompatible to all other world systems and this is an example of many that have been put forward. Instead of getting along separation indexes are put in. Remember it's not just a faith it's a system.

Individual views in your own democracy about writing books against Islam in order of expression and being held hostage to these expressions by the growing fanatical behaviour associated with how separate Islamic culture is to the rest of the world is evident. People even in the UK or Europe who say a word against Islam end up with vigils and death threats. Salome Rushdie and countless others can not even express within their own nations, be it adopted or born in that democratic country because they are still targets of oppression been put on them from this system of faith Law.
As far as I am concerned nothing I have said is wrong and even if this post was not created there are plenty of other related articles demanding change in the West like the inferior attitude that some cultures have of Western values.
It's hard to tell if the UK is going forewards or backwards with it's self.

[edit on 24-2-2007 by The time lord]

Originally posted by shots
What don't you read the british papers and it is not a private pool they want a government pool as I understand.

"as you understand"? Where did you get your "understanding", then? There's nothing about a government pool inthe document. So. you MISunderstand.

Thornley Heath leisure centre in Croydon, London, which has set aside one afternoon a week for Muslim swimmers

That's a private club! They can do whatever they want to bring in extra business! We're talking about SCHOOLS. Jesus, how many ways must you twist this story???

Um we already have been forced to give it up by the likes of the ACLU and others already DUH.

Kids don't do ANYTHING about Christmas at schools? No Christmas Tree? No play? No carols? No Christmas decorations? Duh!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
"as you understand"? Where did you get your "understanding", then? There's nothing about a government pool inthe document. So. you MISunderstand.

I never said there was anything in the document. What I sad was it has been covered in the British media and it was stated many were outraged.

www.thesun.co.uk...

That's a private club! They can do whatever they want to bring in extra business! We're talking about SCHOOLS. Jesus, how many ways must you twist this story???

Fine if that is the case I stand corrected and that is the reason I stated as I understood/understand it was government, , now I know it was not but that will not change the fact the citizens of the UK are outraged about it will it?

Kids don't do ANYTHING about Christmas at schools? No Christmas Tree? No play? No carols? No Christmas decorations? Duh!

Nope not any more they don't; it is not accepted as it was in the past.

Hell if a kid hands a girl a valentine with a cross on it some have a fit.

[edit on 2/24/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by semperfoo
haha.. Atleast you have a sense of humor

Yeah but don't tell anyone ok? Don't want to spoil my image...

Well its pretty hard to read sarcasm on a board like this..:p

This is true lol.

But muslims (not all) need to be able to take sarcasm (danish cartoons) and to embrace the world in a much different light.

The reaction to those cartoons is Wahhabism in action, I am afraid. Wahhabism is the threat from Islam, not Islam itself. I have spoken to a few Sunnis who are alarmed at the spread of Wahhabism. More interestingly to note, it is many of the older, traditional Sunnis, who are worried that their kids are being brainwashed by the immense amount of Wahhabist propaganda that is flowing out of Saudi Arabia right now, and into the mosques around the world. Ironically, it is our petro-dollars that are funding these nutcases and their media efforts.

A recent case about Wahhabist literature was featured in the British press, when a London based Saudi funded school was found to be using a book that called Christians pigs and Jews monkeys. Understandably, there was uproar, and it was forced to take the book out of its curriculum. But you see my point: Wahhabists target Muslim kids with their poison.

What we, and by that I mean traditional Sunnis backed by society at large, need to do, is find a way of countering this garbage.

Americans dont hate muslims.

I should hope not lol... doesn't Dearborn [sp] have the largest concentration of Muslims outside of a Muslim nation? America is a multicultural society, and that is something to be proud of. IMO, at least. America and the UK are both countries that can be proud of their societies, generally speaking, despite the best efforts of certain politicians and their henchmen.

Does anyone, anywhere, have an actual list of things that the muslim group is asking for?

Because if they want 'food preps that are trained to deal with halal foods' and stuff like that, that seems perfectly reasonable. If they want non-muslims circumscised, that'd be unreasonable. SO which is it?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What's wrong with ASKING schools with mostly Muslim students to accomodate another religion besides Christianity. So what if they WANT something? There's nothing against the law for wanting something, is there?

There's nothing against the law, no. But it still affects people. Muslims asking for things makes us scared to say 'no' because they will go crazy and start complaining that we're not bending over backwards for them like we should be.

You know that a lot of schools, supermarkets, etc (public places) don't display traditional Christmas decorations anymore? Not because they were forced to take them down, but because muslims made them feel awkward by "asking" the supermarkets, etc to remove them because they were 'offensive'. It's a lose-lose situation, either we lose our traditions or we look like we are trying to be offensive.

It's our bloody country, if they find our decorations offensive then why don't they go to a country where they wont be offended!? Because most British-born people don't find them offensive, and surely we should be the ones that get priority. Or should we give priority to what immigrants want so as not to offend them?

A COUNCIL has sparked fury by virtually shutting a swimming pool on Sunday afternoons for “Muslim-only” sessions. All women are banned — and non-Muslim men may swim IF they follow the strict Islamic dress code of swim shorts that hide the navel and extend below the knee.

I doubt the swimming pool was forced to make a 'muslim only' day. But I bet they were 'asked', and would have complained if their 'requests' weren't met. No, it's not against the law for them to ask, but it still affects other people. A lot of people only have Sundays free to go swimming, so now they can't.

I'm sure there's a nice pool somewhere else, maybe Saudi Arabia, that they could spend all the time they want in, why don't muslims go there? Why should British people have to give up their swimming for them?

Originally posted by brEaDITOR
People in the UK and the US are free to move elsewhere if the current country isn't a comfortable fit.

Exactly. And most of the people who are complaining that the country isn't a comfortable fit aren't even from here anyway!

A typical generalized attempt at portraying a whole population as being evil.

"UK Muslims:" implies that the UK's Muslim population wants to ban un-Islamic schools. Wherein actual fact the story has nothing to do with what the OP is intending to portray.

The Muslim Council of Britain is talking about Muslim students. But that wouldn't fit within the agenda of demonizing Muslims now would it? Shame on you.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Does anyone, anywhere, have an actual list of things that the muslim group is asking for?

Because if they want 'food preps that are trained to deal with halal foods' and stuff like that, that seems perfectly reasonable. If they want non-muslims circumscised, that'd be unreasonable. SO which is it?

The demands/request vary from private swimming, swimming attire, the food prep mentioned I think around page 23?.


Many of the items are on page 40, however the rest are spread out in all parts of the document. 72 pages long so may take you some time to get through it. I also found what might be different versions, but I am not positive; one is on a news site and the other is on MCB site. The problem is no date was shown for the publication of the PDF files on the document as is customary with UK/US and other world country books/documents,

Guardian.com version



MCB Site

[edit on 2/25/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by subz
A typical generalized attempt at portraying a whole population as being evil.

But that wouldn't fit within the agenda of demonizing Muslims now would it? Shame on you.

Bye typical do you mean the way you portray all the Israelis/ Jewish people being bad/evil?


Agenda yeah must be just like your agenda against the Jewish culture.

sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me; Subz



[edit on 2/25/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by shots

I never said there was anything in the document. What I sad was it has been covered in the British media and it was stated many were outraged.

www.thesun.co.uk...

I just want to say at this point, that the Sun is an absolute comic of a "newspaper" that has no journalistic integrity. If people are using the Sun newspaper for validation, you might as well flush the whole argument.

"many outraged?" Put it into context, they interviewed ONE person in their piece. There are then 15 people who felt compelled to leave messages.

16 people out of the population of the entire UK doesnt to me, suggest that many are outraged. Rather it suggests to me, that people in the UK aknowledge that the Sun is a comic and therfore they dont get too heated about the one sided and often sensationalist (and innacurate) stories that they print.

If many people are outraged, I'd like to see more proof than just the one person they managed to find. Also consider that, of the 16 people who commented, some of them actually supported what was being reported.

Thats just one example of the Sun's journalistic integrity.

Basically, its generally acknowledged by the more intelligent people in the UK, that the Sun is a newspaper written by morons, for morons.

Not getting at anyone. Just trying to make a point.

[edit on 25-2-2007 by Blayde]

Well now Shots you've just admitted, to all who can read, your bigoted agenda of demonizing Muslims en masse. Any credibility people thought you possessed surely must of just vaporized.

The only point in your post which isn't accurate is your attempt at dragging me into your bigoted World, since I have never demonized Jews en masse or even Israelis. When ever I have criticism I am specific in who I am talking about and never paint broad unforgiving strokes. I speak of Zionists who are terrorists, not Jews. I speak of "Israel" as the state and not "Israelis". Perhaps if you do not intend to demonize all Muslims you should try to focus on the very people you have issues with, not entire populations.

[edit on 25/2/07 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

The only point in your post which isn't accurate is your attempt at dragging me into your bigoted World, since I have never demonized Jews en masse or even Israelis.

Pot still calling the kettle balck huh?

Originally posted by subz
Israel is a forward post of fascism and tyranny crafted by the very men who could be described as the cancer within humanity.
www.abovepolitics.com...

What more can I say. I think your own words speak volumes. :shk:

[edit on 2/25/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Pot still calling the kettle balck huh?

That holds no merit. I am not a bigot.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by subz
Israel is a forward post of fascism and tyranny crafted by the very men who could be described as the cancer within humanity.
www.abovepolitics.com...

What more can I say. I think your own words speak volumes. :shk:

Didn't I just say that I speak about the state of Israel and not Israelis? Just like when people criticised Iraq and not Iraqis. I am sure you understand the difference but it doesn't help your cause to admit it.

Originally posted by subz

Didn't I just say that I speak about the state of Israel and not Israelis?

When you target Israel you are targeting all Israelis at least where I come from. Guess your English and mine are completely different interpretations.

Now kindly get back to the topic at hand rather then try and derail the thread. Thank you..


[edit on 2/25/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
When you target Israel you are targeting all Israelis at least where I come from. Guess your English and mine are completely different interpretations.

Yeah right.

Originally posted by shots
Now kindly get back to the topic at hand rather then try and derail the thread. Thank you..

Since you're the OP, and you brought up my stance on Israel. It isn't I who is getting off topic Shots.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I think that the time has come for England to stand up for the English.

When you immigrate to a country, I think that you should adopt the ways of that country not expect that country to adopt your ways.

Personally, I think that it's time that countries like England, Sweden, Norway pretty much stop bending over backwards to give in to the demands of muslims and instead demand more assimilation from their immigrant population.

If you want a muslim country then immigrate to a muslim country. Don't try to force your values and religion on an existing county.

I agree with you 100%. Coming from England, Im not racist but I am sick of been told how live in my own country, I saw a documentry and these muslims say they arent British although they lived here there whole life. Another said that the ways of Islam are the best. I was just like... why don't go back there then, he admitted to been on a the doll, he isnt really contributing to society in anyway...