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Mormons are not Christians?

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posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:15 PM
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In regards to "Mormons are not Christians"

Who IS a Christian?


"He who does the will of my father in heaven"

What is "His will"

"the greates law is to love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself."

trick...notice you need to love yourself

but...what is love?

Love holds not wrong, etc. (You guys know Pauls def...)

In short...Love is space...space around you and around others.

If you "Love yourself" create a space of acceptance for yourself, you can then "love others". Create a space around them...accept that they like or do not like you.

Notice Jesus never caught on and latched to peoples "latest" emotions.
Onde day, "King of Kings" next "Kill him". Who needs that kind of ride?

When you stop expecting things from others...(ah, the key) then you can let them be.
What they do...the attributes they show, then have no "control" over you.


Cool stuff. So...now we know who the Christian is, the question, who is the Christian in each of these groups?


I blog at ATS a lot on these lines...I used to be a die hard evangelical Christian (missionary, etc.) So, I will stop here with what I have said.

peace

dAlen




posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:34 PM
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I live in Utah so I am a forced witness to the whole Mormons vs. Christians debate. Frankly, I've had it up to here (grand gesture.)

A few years back the Mormon Church wanted to change their name from "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" to "The Church of Jesus Christ," or something like that. It appeared to be a marketing ploy to gain acceptance in mainstream Christianity and it never caught on in the press...even the local press.

Being neither Mormon nor Christian, I think can look at this somewhat objectively. Since Mormon beliefs differ on important Christian tenets such as the Trinity and recognized prophets, I don't think they could be called Christian any more than Muslims can, to which I ask, so what?

As to whether or not they're a cult, well, I think it depends on the believer. They're no different than Christians, Muslims, Buddhists or anyone else in that regard.

When reason is replaced with blind obedience you have entered cult status regardless of one's religious affilitation.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by befoiled
Since Mormon beliefs differ on important Christian tenets such as the Trinity and recognized prophets, I don't think they could be called Christian any more than Muslims can[/quote
They accept jesus christ as their saviour. Therefore, they are christians. Unitarians are christians, and don't accept a trinitarian godhead. The prophets don't really figure into most christian sects anyway, so the mormons have latter day prophets and saints can't be used to exclude them either.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:37 PM
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Nygdan, it was my understanding that they do not think Jesus is their ONLY savior. It was my understanding that they think of Joseph Smith as a savior as well. In the way that he gave them sacred knowledge of the plates and the whereabouts of Zion (which I might add is apparently in the wrong location .....again, so they are going to tear down the temple and rebuild it....again).

So, going along with your reasoning that claiming Christ as your savior is what makes you christian, if someone were to think there was another savior in addition to Jesus Christ, would they still be considered Christian?



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
They accept jesus christ as their saviour. Therefore, they are christians. Unitarians are christians, and don't accept a trinitarian godhead. The prophets don't really figure into most christian sects anyway, so the mormons have latter day prophets and saints can't be used to exclude them either.



Most Christians would disagree with you and, by the way, I'm Unitarian and am not a Christian.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by mrsdudara
Nygdan, it was my understanding that they do not think Jesus is their ONLY savior. It was my understanding that they think of Joseph Smith as a savior as well. In the way that he gave them sacred knowledge of the plates and the whereabouts of Zion (which I might add is apparently in the wrong location .....again, so they are going to tear down the temple and rebuild it....again).



We do not have any other Savior in our church besides Jesus Christ. We don't pray to Joseph Smith. He was a prophet to us, no different than Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, or any other prophet you want to name. Jews don't worship Moses as their savior even though they hold him in very high regard. Moses received the Tanakh (first 5 books of the Torah) as revelation from God. It became their scripture. They don't mistake him as their Messiah though. That's the best comparison I can think of.

There are some examples in speeches made by members of our church refering to other people (like Joseph Smith or others) as "saviors." That type of language is used sometimes to describe someone who helps others along the path to salvation by providing support or information -- they act *like* a savior. Someone who rescues another (from drug addition, spiritual ignorance, you pick the problem ... whatever) acts like a savior. It is very clear amoung us when our members say that, that they don't mean that person has replaced Jesus Christ as *THE* Savior (of the world).



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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perfect fifth, thank you for clearing that up. You have shared a wealth of information. I really appreciate your point of view, and the way you have given it. It is nice to have a discussion with someone who offers information instead of nasty accusitory or judgmental comments. I am impressed with your knowledge on the subject, and your open mind. That is a rare combination.


befoiled, unfortunatly, by your definition of cult, too many religious organizations across the board fit the bill.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 06:15 PM
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befoiled, unfortunatly, by your definition of cult, too many religious organizations across the board fit the bill.



Unfortunate indeed, and a major source of many of the world's ills.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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But Jesus CHRIST = Christian ?????

But I though they believe Brigham Young was god or something, or atleast a profet or something.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by Royal76
But I though they believe Brigham Young was god or something, or atleast a profet or something.


No, and yes. Brigham Young was the successor to Joseph Smith. Thus, both were prophets of the Mormon church. He was not a god. Brigham and Joseph are revered as great men by the Mormons, but they are definitely NOT worshipped, deified, or anything like that.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 

Actually what a person doesn't honestly know maybe they should check further into the facts. Facts.
Mormon's aren't Mormons, they are Latter Day Saints (please look up the definition of saint's in the dictionary. And they have a good reason (bible stated) reason for calling themselves Latter Day Saint's.
They believe God is God, Jesus is the son of God, and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
They do not worship Joesph Smith. Joseph Smith was a prophet and they see him as that. As far as Abraham, Jacob, etc. they are said to be honorable men of God, and that is spoke of in the bible.
The "Second Book" that so many people get upset about is not part of the bible and they don't consider it part of the bible. They do believe the "Book of Mormon" to be God inspired, like many religious books in the world.
They have a lot more to them if one would look into them for the facts, facts, facts.
If you really want to know what LDS people are about study with one. They don't brainwash people, they leave you to your own choice.
Look before you leap.
Don't believe everything you read, do more serious research.



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by befoiled
 


JUST BECAUSE YOU ACCEPET JESUS AS YOU SAVIOUR DOESNT MAKE YOU CHRISTIAN!!!
MORMOMS BELIVE THEY HAVE TO BE PERFECT AND GOD IS FELSH AND JESUS WAS CONSUMED NATURALLY BY MARY!

CHRISTIANS ARE NOTHING LIKE MORMONS!!!



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

What more do you need?



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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I have a question?dont some mormons believe you get your own planet when u die?Not a joke either please....its a serious question.



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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I have heard stuff about that, but I am an inactive member. In fact my worldview contradicts the LDS teachers vastly. There are other LDS members here though, that may be able to answer that question.

The "LDS is not Christian" schtick is an old one. Likely force fed by the pastor or whatever title they give them people to bad mouth what they fear. This way their congregation gets out there and sells their religion, while queering one that threatens their profit.


As to whether or not they're a cult, well, I think it depends on the believer.


By definition any gathering of people who withhold ideas and act upon them are a cult. that means that a cult could be at work, at school, where ever.




[edit on 5/29/2008 by eye open doors]



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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that whole get your own planet thing is I believe FLDS dogma, not LDS.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


you should know that you, as others have done, are taking specific portions out of the scriptures to prove your own point but you do not include the context of the scriptures to place an understanding in the minds of others as to the REAL meaning of the scripture you are referring to. I am a "Mormon", we call the name of our church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I would point you to the FRUITS of our works and that is how you will know if we are "Christian" or not. If we bring people to Christ and teach HIS doctrines and try i every respect to live a Christ like life then we are "Christians" Jesus said that satan cannot be divided against satan I would remind you of that and as a good "Christian" Allow you to repent and apologize for your statement that we are NOT Christians. If you have spent time in a "Mormon" church and listened to what we teach you would change your opinion. Let me ask you this question: Do you think that with the Adversary still loosed on this earth that the Lord would not see fit to continue to guide and direct his people for their eternal benefit? The Bible was written for the people of THAT time and in their language for THEIR understanding. Humble yourself and partake of all the knowledge that righteous men and women have continued to ammass by receiving continued revelation from the Lord. For Jesus also said that upon this rock will i build my church, he was speaking about the "rock" of revelation, being that only through God and the Holy Spirit can we receive revelation about the truth of Jesus being the Son of God. I await your response.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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The South Park library has commented insightfully on all matters like these:



Subject_matter_in_South_Park#Religion

Religion

"Starvin' Marvin in Space": Christian missionaries and Pat Robertson attempt to cajole Starvin Marvin's people and the Marklar into accepting their faith. This episode in general portrays Christianity in a rather unfavorable manner, as when the missionary character attempts to get the Africans to read the Bible. "Remember, reading the Bible plus accepting Jesus equals FOOD", suggesting that the Christians would have let the emaciated Africans starve if they did not convert.

"Are You There God? It's Me, Jesus" addresses the Year 2000 hype/hysteria and introduces God (in a non-stereotypical visage) to the series.

"Super Best Friends" has the key members of the world's faiths join together to fight a cult.

Christian rock music is the subject of "Christian Rock Hard": Cartman attempts to start a Christian Rock band as a scheme to get an award.
"Red Hot Catholic Love" parodies the Catholic sex abuse scandal (the town's pastor is seen trying to convert other Catholic priests from molestation) and the Separation of Church & State as demanded by atheists

"All About Mormons" chronicles the arrival of a Mormon family in South Park, and lampoons the story of Joseph Smith.

"Bloody Mary" was criticized for its portrayal of a Virgin Mary statue as bleeding from her anus (later found out to be from her vagina, as declared by Pope Benedict XVI in the episode). It also addressed the religious origins of Alcoholics Anonymous.

"Do the Handicapped Go to Hell?" and "Probably" depicts Stan, Cartman, and Kenny being frightened by the town Priest's descriptions of hell and those who are headed there. Determined to save their souls and those of their friends, including Kyle, a Jew and Timmy, who is mentally handicapped, they seek out advice from the local clergy. When the boys find the priest having sex in the confessional, they decide to make their own church aimed at salvation. They continue this course until it is revealed that Cartman, in an obvious nod to televangelism, only did it to make ten million dollars, and Jesus shows up to shoot down the views of fire and brimstone preaching.

Scientology is the subject of "Trapped in the Closet" where Stan is declared the reincarnation of L. Ron Hubbard

Radical atheism is also shown be equal to radical religion in the episode "Go God Go" and sequel, "Go God Go XII". In the future, all religion has been destroyed by Richard Dawkins and Mrs. Garrison and everyone is atheist in hopes that reason will prevent war. However, fanaticism nonetheless grows and there are several warring factions trying to decide whose logic is correct in determining their name. They also use 'Science' as an alternative to 'God' as a curse, e.g. 'Science Damn You', 'Science H Logic!'.

In "Fantastic Easter Special", the episode suggested (lampooning The Da Vinci Code) that Saint Peter was a rabbit and that God wanted all the popes to be rabbits so they'd keep their mouths shut.


"Fantastic Easter Special" was my favorite of these. I wonder if any Christian could actually murder Jesus at his request as did Kyle? Yea, God works in mysterious ways.



Ep. 1105

Stan: Snowball! [now dressed in rabbits ears and snout like Randy. A bright light appears near one of the obelisks in the center of the piazza, and Jesus' figure appears in the light. The light fades and Jesus is all alone. The crowd oohs and aahs]

Tourist: Jesus?

Jesus: Stop! That rabbit is of holy descent!

Bill: Why won't you go away?!

Jesus: One man cannot be the voice of the Church!

Bill: Enough of this blasphemy! I'm the Pope now! That means I am the voice of God!!

Jesus: Not anymore. I'm removing you from your position. [brings out a black and yellow glaive, then presses a button in the middle to release the blades, as in a switchblade. He throws it towards Bill, who runs from it. It levels off and slices through Bill's midsection and returns to Jesus. Jesus strikes a pose and catches it with his right hand. The blades disappear into their sheaths. Jesus brings out some sunglasses with his left hand and puts them on, still maintaining the dramatic pose.]


This is my favorite part of this particular episode. Jesus with the Krull.






Crowd: YAAAY!!!

Stan: All right Jesus!

[St. Peter's Basilica, day. The sun is bright and the sky is blue, the basilica is decked out with streamers and Easter wreaths. White smoke rises above and behind the basilica, indicating a new pope]

Crowd: Sanctum Piter oteum, Deus ore uneum.
Hippitus hoppitus reus homine.

Cardinal: Your Holiness, what should we tell the world about how to run their lives? [Snowball now sits on the papal throne. Snowball, having no human vocal cords, says nothing] It isn't saying anything.

Italian Cardinal: Yes, just as a-Jesus intended it.


Randy: Stanley, I'm so proud of you. You've learned so very much this Easter.

Jesus: Yeah. I've learned not to ask questions. Just dye the eggs and keep my mouth shut.

Randy: That's my boy.

Crowd: [in the background] In suspiratoreum, lepus in re sanctum.
Hippitus hoppitus Deus Domine.

[End of Fantastic Easter Special.]


So the point is that all religions act stupid and make up stuff so as to control the Jesus handlebars of history. If Jesus did come back, he'd hold every church accountable.

But in my opinion, it will be the church who most quickly opens their vaults and reveals all they have hidden, whom Jesus will find most pleasing if he's even paying attention to churches anymore, I mean.

So who will it be first to open up their vaults? The vatican claims the throne, yet they've got hidden vaults. The LDS found root in America yet they also have their vaults, kept secret.

We can research the towns where Jeff Warrens and his followers were cultivated, and we can research the tortures of the inquisitons, but can we say that either of these churches is really acting well toward the poor, the widowed and the orphaned? My answer, would be: No, neither is doing right and neither is displaying a real spirit of truth and opposition to religio/political authority structures as Jesus displayed. One could say that perhaps Jesus would return as a child born into either of these churches (either Catholicious/Protestantastic or Latter Day Saint-riffic), I guess my question is how would any of these faiths treat Jesus as a child among them? If they tried him in front of a religous court and he rebuked them, would any of these churches have the inward reflection and Christlike spirit so as to change, in that moment?

Any church which does not challenge its own inward message and does not expose corruption within it's very bones, is invalid, and not worthy of the Master, imo.



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