Mormons are not Christians?

I was watching Fox news the other night, and heard an interesting argument come up. They were talking about who is going to try for presidency in 2008. Mitt Romney , the fella who saved the scandal-plagued 2002 Winter Olympics was brought up. Honestly, I hadn’t remembered ever hearing of the man before. Then, before they could go on to say what he was for/against, the fact that he was a Mormon came up. With it, the question “are Mormons, Christians?”.

Well, that was something I have never wondered about. So I looked into it.

According to the institute for religious research, no.

Is Mormonism Chrisitan? A Comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity sponsored by the institute for religious research

Mormons share with orthodox Christians some important moral precepts from the Bible. However, the above points are examples of the many fundamental and irreconcilable differences between historic, biblical Christianity and Mormonism. While these differences do not keep us from being friendly with Mormons, we cannot consider them brothers and sisters in Christ.

They even take it one step further and say

The Bible specifically warns of false prophets who will teach "another gospel" centered around "another Jesus," and witnessed to by "another spirit" (2 Corinthians 11:4,13-15; Galatians 1:6-9). Based on the evidence presented above, we believe Mormonism represents just such a counterfeit gospel.

From my understanding, religious categories are based on who/what you are inspired by.
Jews, are inspired by G-d, Abraham, and Moses (do not believe Jesus was the son of G-d)
Christians, are inspired by both God and Jesus because they believe Jesus was the son of God
Muslims, are inspired by G-d, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad who they believe was G-d’s final prophet.
So, by that classification, wouldn’t Mormons, being that they are inspired by Joseph Smith, be an entirely different religion? Why are they so nervous about admitting they are a new religion?

Well, I suppose that by classical definition,Mormons are not Christian. Although,I consider anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Christian, so it's really a moot point to me... In my opinion they are Christian,but they certainly are not orthodox Christians.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

No Mormons are not Christians. Their roots are the Masons..

Ok, so we have a multi millionare Mormon which is a new religion with falce prophets and all - salt lake city,utah hot shot - mason, running for president?

Joseph Smith found tablets and he translated them in such a way that the situation has to seem ridiculous to some. He was the only one allowed to translate the tablets, so the resulting Book of Mormon (Mormon being one of the characters of these tablets) can be believed or disbelieved quite easily.

Mormons are good people and yes, I will be voting for this Presidential candidate simply because America needs a good family-centered value system which Mormons have and which most Christians do not. The American Christian Right is the rottenest of rotten trees whereas Mormons produce mostly Christlike fruit IMO.

I am of the opinion that most if not all of organized Christ worship is fraudulent and pagan, evil and deceitful. Based on my personal investigation, I find the LDS Church (Mormons) to be people of good character who are less interested in political power than in moral uprightness as a group.

This church, because of the nature of their prophets' revelation (Smith dictating the plates), is made to appear somewhat odd. Some may even say they are not "True Christians" (tm).

Whereas you will find the run-of-the-mill bible thumping Christian to be utterly convinced of the path of the bible from Peter to Paul to Constantine and to them. They think the bible was miraculously delivered right to their little eyeballs. Free will doesn't enter into belief in the bible because it's obvious right? It's the only book straight from God's uvula, right? To not believe in the Bible means you reject God himself, in a way. But I doubt you'll find a Mormon who wil equate disbelief in the Book of Mormon as rejection of God. They know it's a bit of a stretch. They know faith is involved.


[edit on 8-2-2007 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Ok, so we have a multi millionare Mormon which is a new religion with falce prophets and all - salt lake city,utah hot shot - mason, running for president?

One must have millions to become an American President in this era. So what? After Steve Forbes, no rich guy candidate can look too bad. Besides, how rich is he? I don't know nothing about him (best way to vote IMO).

As for Masons, I am not afraid of them, knowing a lot of them to be good men. Yeah, they've got their fraternity secrets but these are no more or less childish and silly as any fraternity.


What makes a true Christian? Don't they just need to be willing to die for Jesus? Really in the end it comes down to who will walk up to the guillotine and die for His holy self, right? All the talk falls away in that moment.

I think Mormons would be willing to shed their blood for Jesus and I think they will do so, when America needs defenders on the homesoil. Yes so I would include their group in the cult of Christ, for what that's worth.

You have no idea how many times I have heard that.

You see, half of my family are mormons. I was Catholic. The demon spawn. I grew up hearing all about how they are the only ones that will be going to heaven. Funny thing is that I grew up hearing the same thing you said almost to the point I could put quotes around it. They didnt come around us much after my cousin and I got into a conversation about Jesus, whom she stated was not the son of God, just a prophet.

Fact of the matter is Joseph Smith was an immoral looney. Dont even get me started there.

What I am discussing is the fact that Mormons are not Christians any more than Muslims are.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
What I am discussing is the fact that Mormons are not Christians any more than Muslims are.

How can you have a "discussion" when you've stated plainly what you believe, i.e. that Mormons are as fake/wrong (in your mind), as Muslims? You have your opinion, but I would say it is wrong, and in any case, an argument is what will ensue with words like these above, not a discussion.

To say that Mormons are a "new religion" means what, exactly? Would you call Protestants a new religion? How about a new denomination of Christian called "Happy Jesus People" or whatever? What are your qualifications for a "new church" in the derogatory vein you use it? How does a church fail to be Christian? What are the requirements? Please do not tell me that Peter was the cornerstone of Jesus' Church because that is wrong. I just want to know how you define "new" church (fake/evil) versus "old" church (true/good).

Surely non-Christians and atheists see Mormons as another bunch of Christ worshippers, right? It's only the TRUE Christians (tm) who have a problem with Mormons being lumped in with them. It's funny to me how TRUE some Christ worshippers are when they know only what they've been told. I have spent my life talking to dimwitted, uneducated, historically ignorant Christians of all faiths, so forgive me if I am asking stupid questions here. It's probably a mental block on my part.

As to the rest of your reply, it's funny to me how feverently Catholics cling to their faith even in the light of overwhelming misconduct within their church at the highest level. This represents true Christ worship? I look forward to clarification here.


[edit on 9-2-2007 by smallpeeps]

I do not vote for candidates because of their religion, I vote for the best candidate, period. I have known many Mormons all my life and I lived in Salt Lake City for awhile, in addition to flying in and out of SLC for a number of years.

I have liked every single Mormon I ever met. I'm sure there are creeps in the Mormon church, just as there are creeps in every religion. They help not only each other out, but everyone in their community. They are taught to save enough food for 2 other families to survive whatever catastrophes may befall.
I remember there was a flood in Utah somewhere and the town was really demolished by it. It took FEMA 3 days to get there to help out. But guess what??
The Mormons had already cleaned it up, every scrap of it.

They are generous, decent, humble, selfless people who love to help others and they are also very nonjudgmental, as a whole. I might vote for Mitt Romney for his stance on issues, but also the fact that he is a Mormon, to me, helps alot.

I'm a Mormon and I consider myself a Christian. I believe in Christ. I believe in the Bible and Book of Mormon, which talk about Christ. I figure that makes us Christians. Granted, we have some beliefs that are different from what you might consider 'orthodox Christianity', but the basic core centered on Christ is the same. Personally, I always find it rather strange when someone questions whether Mormons are Christian or not. To me, it just seems obvious that we are, and the question seems as bizarre to me as asking whether, say, Canadians are human beings or not. (I'm Canadian, so I figure I can throw that out without sounding prejudiced :p)

I come from a long line of Mormon pioneers...........part of my family heritage includes Butch Cassidy and YES he to was Mormon.

Personally I am NOT Mormon.........as I began to truly STUDY spirituality I found way to many incosistancys in the Mormon religion for my tastes.

The ARE Christians in a 'new fangled' sense and according tto themselves.
The Mormon Church is actually called the LDS Church and that stands for The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints.......

They believe they are the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ, and when they pass over IF they have done all required of them by the Church in this life they will be EXACTLY just as important as Jesus is and that God will give them a planet to rule over so they can be a God themselves of their own world. They believe they earn their way into heaven and will BECOME exactly as God is.

THAT BASIC PRECEPT is so VERY differant from what othodox Christians believe that they truly are NOT Christains in that sense.

If you look up the definition of a CULT..........The LDS Church fits that definition to a T.

I am not trying to slam the LDS Church....the wellfare program they have and all the help they give to the needy wether they are Mormons or not is a GOOD EXAMPLE to all of us........The family values they practice are fantastic when put into actuall practice.

I wish I could find an online copy of Brigham Youngs speach.....'Mormons on the Moon' that he gave telling the congragation "how that God revealed to him that the moon was populated by Mormons, and he saw that someday there would be a GREAT BRIDGE built connecting the SAlt Lake Tample to the moon. This way all Mormons would be connected"..........
This speach CAN be found even in the Mormon Church Liberaries in downtown Salt Lake City. You really have to LOOK hard however for the oddball speaches like that are preferd to NOT be known.....
I read ALOT of odd speaches like that one, that turned me forever away from this BIG conglomorate RELIGION.....for obviously those speaches and beliefs are false, no matter how nice of folks they are.

Sadly MOST Mormons do not even KNOW they are NOT Christans. Another fact well hidden in the modern era of this massive world domineering religion.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
They believe they are the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ, and when they pass over IF they have done all required of them by the Church in this life they will be EXACTLY just as important as Jesus is and that God will give them a planet to rule over so they can be a God themselves of their own world. They believe they earn their way into heaven and will BECOME exactly as God is.

I don't think that's a fair thumbnail sketch of their belief system, but yes, they do believe God was once man.

Really I believe mormons are far, far more aligned to history than Christians who are orthodox.

THAT BASIC PRECEPT is so VERY differant from what othodox Christians believe that they truly are NOT Christains in that sense.

If you look up the definition of a CULT..........The LDS Church fits that definition to a T.

I do not believe the LDS is a cult, but if you can list your definitions, we can have that discussion.

I do agree that mormons are not connected to orthodoxy, and that is to their credit. They are cleaner as a result IMO.

I wish I could find an online copy of Brigham Youngs speach.....'Mormons on the Moon' that he gave telling the congragation "how that God revealed to him that the moon was populated by Mormons, and he saw that someday there would be a GREAT BRIDGE built connecting the SAlt Lake Tample to the moon. This way all Mormons would be connected"..........
This speach CAN be found even in the Mormon Church Liberaries in downtown Salt Lake City. You really have to LOOK hard however for the oddball speaches like that are preferd to NOT be known.....
I read ALOT of odd speaches like that one, that turned me forever away from this BIG conglomorate RELIGION.....for obviously those speaches and beliefs are false, no matter how nice of folks they are.

So what? I am not a mormon, but clearly their beliefs at the time of Brigham Young were not any more assbackwards than any other American pioneer or witchburning orthodox Christian. Most Americans were ignorant and anyway he may have been quoting Jules Verne or something and adding his personal slant on it. He was a human man, and certainly as dumb as any, at times.

Sadly MOST Mormons do not even KNOW they are NOT Christans. Another fact well hidden in the modern era of this massive world domineering religion.

I know you said you live in Utah, and it seems like you have an opinion here, but I want to clarify it: You believe that Mormons are not Christians in the orthodox sense because they have more complicated beliefs than orthodox Christians? If a Mormon believes Smith found a second set of tablets which originated from "biblical times" whatever that means, how does that make him less crazy than an orthodox Christian who believes they are eating Jesus' flesh and blood in their mouth, and also believe a host of other crazy things many of which are pagan in origin anyway?

Where does Jesus' church move and reside? Is it in the heart of humanity, right-here-right-now circa 2007? Or is it moving only from First Pontiff Peter and the smooched papal ring and those that have schizmed directly from it?

I'd like to hear more about this division between orthodoxy and LDS beliefs but let's remember how nutty some orthodox Christians beliefs are first before we start painting Mormons with the "crazy beliefs" brush.

I was raised in the Church and believe me they are close enough to being the same thing as all the other "Christians". They believe in Jesus 2nd coming, he gave his life for our sins, he is the son of God, you get baptized, blah blah blah---I could add more but you get the point.

I will not be to mean, cuz WWJD? I am being sarcastic. Anyone who knows much about the Mormon church I think would agree that they are close enough to being a "Christian" church as all the other wonderful, positive, no fear based Christian churchs. I was being sarcastic again.

Anyways, do you think Jesus would want you trashing on other churches? Of course not. Maybe a little sarcastic you can get away with, especially if you have survived the programming of any of the Christian churches.

So YES! they are a Christian church. If you don't believe me then go sit in some of their meetings. They are just as boring as all the others, but I must say very Wholesome. I have earned the right to say this about the Mormon church per I survived and lived to tell the tale.

This is not to reflect poorly on any of the true blue members. Some of them are the greatest people I have ever met. Even Jesus loves his followers but does not think highly of False Profits. Yes I did spell the word Profit correctly to make a point.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jesus he rules! Can't wait to hang out with him. Thanks for listening to my ranting, I will stop now.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
No Mormons are not Christians. Their roots are the Masons..

Interestingly enough I was having an argument with a Mormon friend of mine about this..

Hes getting married in a "temple" and only his side of the family can go because his wife is baptist I believe or something like that. I had never heard Mormons had "temples" .. I find the whole thing weird, seeing as the founders where Masons, where then kicked out, and apparently started a hardcore church with a bit of Masonry mixed in. But don't mistake that, because Mormonism appears anyways to take a little from Masonry, Masonry is nothing like Mormonism..

I believe Mormonism has one of the toughest "laws" so to speak about preventing members from becoming Masons as well.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
They didnt come around us much after my cousin and I got into a conversation about Jesus, whom she stated was not the son of God, just a prophet.

I think you need to study a little bit more about the Mormon church. They totally 100% believe that Jesus is the son of God. I dare you to call any Mormon church or talk to any missionary, (if you dare and don't want to worry about them showing up at your house) and they will all tell you he is the son of God. You person you were talking to that said he is just a prophet did not know what they were talking about.

Oh, and one other thing that I don't think was mentioned yet is that the Mormons also totalling believe 100% in the Bible as well. They interpret some things differently but all churchs do that.

One thing that is weird is that I am glad I was REBORN with Mary Jane and Iron Maiden cuz the thought of losing my life to them from being raised in it is very horrible to think. I was very close to going on a mission, getting married in the temple, getting the Melchezdick priesthood (I spelled it that way on purpose) and all that good stuff. The weird thing is I have had to on more than one ocassion defend them so to speak because a lot of people are just not getting any truth about them.

One other thing. It is not any weirder to do what Joesph Smith did and claim to see God and translate the plates. How do we know that Moses really talked to God and God made the Ten Commandments on the stone. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that Joseph Smith is not weird and the whole Mormon church thing isn't creepy and evil if you really research the history. My point is if you really research any of the Christian religions and most other religions the history is pretty much the same. Based off of a bunch of lies to control the populus with fear.

We have all heard this a million times, CHURCHS HAVED KILLED MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD FOR THE LUST FOR POWER THAN ALL OTHER THINGS COMBINED.

For the people that don't know much about the Mormon church, you should probably go to their website or something rather than listen to various people who think they know about it. From my experience though I would stay as far away from them as possible. It is not the majority of the members, I agree totally that most of them are very honest and sincere and kind and giving and helpfull.

I could go on and on about different things about the Mormon church that are not very Holy. But it doesn 't matter, just remember to love all God's creatures, even the Devil.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
From my understanding, religious categories are based on who/what you are inspired by.
Jews, are inspired by G-d, Abraham, and Moses (do not believe Jesus was the son of G-d)
Christians, are inspired by both God and Jesus because they believe Jesus was the son of God
Muslims, are inspired by G-d, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad who they believe was G-d’s final prophet.
So, by that classification, wouldn’t Mormons, being that they are inspired by Joseph Smith, be an entirely different religion? Why are they so nervous about admitting they are a new religion?

Why, why are you censoring God?

He's not 'censoring' god. Jews, and some christians, beleive that it is demeaning to even write out the word 'god', because god is so powerful and awesome that we can't even comprehend it or put it into words. They're not censoring it because they are anti-god or something.

Why in the world would humans be entrusted to be guardians over star systems? That role was specifically designed for the angels created in heaven, not for the humans born on earth.

Jude 1:6,7

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation..."

Job 38:7

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Stars are assossiated with angels and the original "sons of God." Each son could be assigned a particular star in the universe. A particular "son of God" or "angel" would be responsible for the inhabitants on the planets surrounding that star. The inhabitants of those planets would be flesh and blood, born of Adam and Eve. There are more planets than there are stars, so God will have a need more more humans than angels when he begins terra-forming more earth-like planets.

The entire nations of the world, from the present to the ancient past of Adam and Eve, will be judged by their peers, just like a jury. These peers will be temporary "sons of God" to perform in this judgement trial for all human kind. God is allowing these select humans, who are now temporary angels, to make a defense for you and I to see if we deserve life or death, to live a physical life on a perfect world created by God.

Small Peeps & Corsauvaux ARE actually nailing it on the head. They are not saying anything I can or would disagree with..............

my belief that they are NOT Christains stams from some hard core orthodox Christians beating that into my head over the course of a year or so......and I am reading the above information and starting to think I need to re-think what I was harassed into actually agreeing with over time.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
BUT
Then again I just DONT CARE ALL THAT MUCH.
SO I bet I dont get all 'serious' about researching it...I cant make myself car enough to do that just now....I am more worried about my avatar looking like crap and that my house wants a good deep cleaning....lame of me I know but I am in a very lame phase right now planning a big move soon to leave this City and thats sucking up MOST my brain power....

SmallPeeps the Mormons DO eat the sacrament of water and wonder bread every sunday to remember the blodd and the body of Jesus. They arent trying to partake of his blood and body, but to do this in rememberance of his dying for our sins ect.

I think the MOST TELLING answer to wether or not they are Christians or not is the fact that they are called:
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.

They call themselves ~The Saints~

[edit on 10-2-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
.. I find the whole thing weird, seeing as the founders where Masons, where then kicked out, and apparently started a hardcore church with a bit of Masonry mixed in. But don't mistake that, because Mormonism appears anyways to take a little from Masonry, Masonry is nothing like Mormonism..

I believe Mormonism has one of the toughest "laws" so to speak about preventing members from becoming Masons as well.

Actually, most of the early Mormons, including their founder, Joseph Smith, joined the Masons AFTER the church had been founded. (those that did join at all) I've seen conflicting reports about whether Joseph Smith was 'kicked out' of masonry, so I'm not really sure if he was or not. Masonry and Mormonism actually share very little in common, although there are a few things.

There used to be a rule that began in Brigham Young's day (he led the church after Joseph Smith was assassinated) that Mormons could not become Masons. I don't know when, but that restriction has subsequently been removed, and Mormons are allowed to become Masons today, although few do. I think (not 100% sure) that the rule existed because Brigham Young thought that some of Smith's murderers were Masons, but I don't think any proof exists that there were, or at least any more in the mob that killed him than would have been there statistically, given the local population.

While Mormonism does allow its members to join Masonry, it doesn't really encourage that, again for reasons I'm not too clear on. I think it may be residual from the previous ban.