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Mormons are not Christians?

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posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 02:53 AM
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Rivergoddess beat me to it! *shakes fist angrilly*


No, Mormons are not christians, they are a cult offshoot kind of like Jehova's witnesses.

They stopped being christians when they began following that nutcase joseph smith which is really laughable when you read about his story.
Sorry, I dont mean to sound like im slamming mormons, I just dont see how they could believe joseph smith was anymore than a conartist.

Anyway, for me, Christianity has to stem from its original roots and maintain its original teachings for it to be considered christian. That is Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Anything else that is added, like a prophet named Joseph Smith automatically makes it non-christian in my book.




posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
They stopped being christians when they began following that nutcase joseph smith which is really laughable when you read about his story.
Sorry, I dont mean to sound like im slamming mormons, I just dont see how they could believe joseph smith was anymore than a conartist.

Free will is involved, if a person is to believe in Smith's work. Free will is essential because without it, our actions mean nothing. Why do you readily accept the bible (crafted by Romans, i.e. killers of Christians) but dismiss Smith's testament so easily? Aren't you accepting a whole bigger batch of half-truths?



Anyway, for me, Christianity has to stem from its original roots and maintain its original teachings for it to be considered christian. That is Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Anything else that is added, like a prophet named Joseph Smith automatically makes it non-christian in my book.

Eastern Orthodox and Catholics both believe that the communion becomes flesh and blood in their mouths, don't they? That's disgusting. I could also go on about all the silly accoutrements and rituals which these churches have, and which are no less silly than the appearance of the LDS rituals.

Essentially you are saying that you will stick with the herd mentality, and only believe in that form of Christ worship which was originated by haters of Jesus, is that right? You will not stray from the status quo which is Catholic (or offshoot of that) and the bible which was constructed by Romans under false auspices. Nah, Mormons are much more Christilike than the Catholic church which will NEVER remove pedophilic priests and which will NEVER allow women to be part of worship. Why cling to that?

What's that scripture about broad and spacious is the road to destruction? What that scripture where people performed powerful works in Jesus' name but he didn't even know them? This seems to indicate that personal investigation of truth will be required.

People who are convinced they know what they're talking about because they are on the side of numbers, are really appealing to the lowest of common denominators. I think the LDS church bears Christlike fruit, which the others you mentioned, do not.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 01:38 PM
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Mormans are Christian the same way Adventists, Witnesses, Pentecostals and Roman Catholics are Christians. It is all a matter of perspective.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 10:48 AM
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(Part 1 of 2)

There are two subject threads you will always see anywhere the topic of “Mormons” is possible:

1. Mormons aren’t Christians.
2. Mormons are a cult.

So this one here is of the Mormons aren’t Christian variety.

I’m a member of the church. I have been my whole life. I was a missionary for the church for 2 years in Germany. I’ve participated in our temple ceremonies, and I am still an active member of the church. So that is the position I’m coming from with my response.

Some Christian denominations have created their own personal definitions for what is required to be a Christian. I got a big kick out of the people who wrote it as “Christian (tm).” That just says it all – a picture painting a thousand words. It’s no surprise that those definitions always include them and exclude other denominations that disagree too much with their interpretation of things.

The obvious broad definition would be anyone who believes in and follows the teachings Jesus Christ. How many sects of Christianity are there? Hundreds. They all attempt to follow the teachings of Christ as best they can, according to their own interpretations.

Yeah, I know it’s easy to get wrapped up into our own little religious worlds and think that everyone who disagrees is “evil” and your enemy. On the other hand, my personal, direct experience is much different. I talk to people of other faiths all the time who are sincerely trying to live their beliefs. I see nothing but beauty in it. That observation crosses the boundary of Christianity to include everyone that I have come in contact with (Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc.). Sure, we all disagree on certain points. But you know what? That’s about 5% to 10% of the important stuff. The other 95% we all basically agree on: there is a divine creator, we should not harm each other, and a basic set of rules on morality that almost all religions share.

So back to the point. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes in Jesus Christ. We believe he is the son of God, that he died for our sins, and that we will be saved by his grace and sacrifice. According to our dogma, Christ is the only way to salvation (not Joseph Smith or anyone else). That is what anyone will hear if they show up to any of our church services anywhere in the world. That is what I taught people as a missionary. You can ask people that have anger in their heart what we believe and get a response about how we are an evil cult or some such nonsense, or you can go look for yourself and make your own direct judgment. You can ask any member of the church. There are quite a lot of us around now, so we’re not that hard to find :-)

I am fully aware of our early church history. We believe in modern day revelation and having a personal connection to the divine in guiding our lives. We have prophets in our church as leaders. I will be quite honest, they have historically suffered a bit from what I call “Paul Bunyan Syndrome.” It’s just human nature for people to build other people up over time into something larger than life. Joseph Smith was, as we believe, the first prophet during our times to restore the true and full gospel of Jesus Christ. He was just a normal man and he was not perfect. Brigham Young was the second prophet of our church, and he was the leader during the great migration to the deserts of Utah to escape severe persecution (including an extermination order against all Mormons by the governor of Missouri). Brigham Young had a really big mouth and a lot of strong opinions. That was his personality. That didn’t mean that everything he said turned into church Dogma. He was heavily influenced by the culture and learning of his time period. I personally think that both were great men and great leaders. They were not superheroes, they could not chop down a tree with a single stroke of an axe, and they didn’t have a giant blue bull as a pet.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 10:51 AM
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(part 2 of 2)

On the subject of the LDS Church being new or old, the Baptists have been around since the early 1600’s. So that makes them an old church and “Mormons” are a new church because they came into existence in the early 1800’s? 200 years is nothing in the history of Christianity not to mention the history of recorded human history (which includes all religion). The LDS church/religion has been around for about 170 years. It’s no longer in the category of being a flash-in-the-pan, here today gone tomorrow Christian sect.

The last thing, since this is a conspiracy type of forum and I love conspiracy stuff, I wanted to post something briefly about our temples. They are not actually secret. We consider them sacred. There is a subtle but important difference. Secrets are kept so that a limited number of people can have advantage over those who are not privy to the secret. They are a form of power over others, and the power comes from limited access. Sacred is something that is special and holy. There’s no point in anyone participating in the activities at one of our temples unless they believe in the concepts. We make covenants there to live moral, righteous lives and to make the world a better place (build the kingdom of God). So in our view, it’s more harm than good to go through that process for someone if they do not believe and are not likely to keep the covenants.

Ideally, we would like everyone in the world to be in that position and share the experience. Any adult who has been a member of our church in good standing for at least 1 year and wishes to go to one of the temples can do so. We highly encourage it. It’s not a secret, and we don’t get any special advantage by keeping people out of it. There are times when our temples are opened to the public too. Right before a newly constructed one is dedicated and put into operation, there is always an open house where the public can tour the building and see everything inside. Sometimes after major renovations to older temple buildings, they will do a similar open house and invite the public for a tour.

On the topic of Mormons and Masons, there is very little connection between the Masonic lodge ceremonies and Mormon temple ceremonies. I’ve studied what is publicly available on Masons, and from what I see it’s a completely different set of stuff. Yeah yeah, I know all about the academic debates about the connections between the two, and the history of the Masons and early Mormon leaders and all that. I’m just saying that the ceremonies, information covered, covenants made and all that are completely different. A few points here and there are similar and make for interesting discussions.

I hope this sheds some light on this subject from a perspective I did not see yet in this thread. Best wishes and love to all of you!



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 10:54 AM
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Are Mormons Christians? It depends on who you ask.

Ask a Mormon and they will say yes.
Ask the Catholic Church or Fundamentalist and they will say no.
Ask your average person on the street and they will most likely say yes.

I say they are indeed Christians. They follow Christ the best way they know how and therefore they are Christ-ians. Many theologians say that they are not Christians because they do not believe Christ is God and therefore they can't truly follow that which they don't understand.

But how many of us really understand God???

Therefore, even though I think they have messed up their interpretation of who Christ is ... YES, I fully believe they are Christians.

(side note - I have been on 4 chat forum sites. In all those sites I have gotten along best with the Mormons. In my experience - they are the nicest people in religion forums.)



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Anyway, for me, Christianity has to stem from its original roots and maintain its original teachings for it to be considered christian. That is Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, and Protestantism.

Protestantism didn't come around until more than a thousand years after christ. How can it be claimed that the mormons aren't christians, but the protestants are? They ripped a bunch of books out of the bible, and greatly changed their doctrine from that of the RCC. They are protestors against the RCC. If we can only take thing that stem 'from its original roots' as christians, then we are left with only the RCC and the Orthodox Church. If we exlude JWs, Mormons, or Unitarians, then we have to exclude Protestants.

And nowhere in the christian teachings does it sya that 'jesus was the last prophet of god'. Having a further prophet can't be used as grounds for being 'non-christian'.

Indeed, the Apostle Paul never/i] met Jesus, except through Divine Revelation. The final book of the bible is also a Divine Revelation and NOT part of the original teaching. Indeed, the entire concept of christianity is that the apostles were, in a sense, prophets.
So adding Joe Smith to that list can't be used to exclude. And what makes Smith less respectable than a couple of backwards fishermen, sheep herders, and carpenters???



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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For me being Christian means to believe in Christ. Mormons are more faithful to Christ than your average "Christian" by a long shot. Mormons allow Christ to enter their lives like no other modern form of Christianity. Although I am Catholic, often times I feel that Mormonism is more like the Christianity that Jesus envisioned in which he went out and spoke the "good word."
When was the last time a Protestant or Catholic knocked on your door offering to talk with you about Christ. Mormons are Christians and like it or not they are the future of Christianity in North America.

Since Mormons have this passion for spreading Christ's "good news," I often like to think of them as the super heroes amongst the different Christian groups. A sort of Uber-Christians.

I will still be voting for Giuliani in '08 though.


[edit on 15-2-2007 by Low Orbit]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 12:59 PM
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I DON'T NEED ANY STINKING PROPHETS!!!

God knows who I am and where I live. He can divulge to me anytime his wishes and what his intentions and rules are. He can do this so that I have no problem believing in it or accepting it. He can do this so that I do not go out and persecute my fellow man believing that I alone am the chosen people of God.

Nope, I do not believe in anybody's man made holy books or con artist prophets.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 01:25 PM
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I am descended from Judeau-Christian lineage from the line of Cleopas (Luke 24) to put a more finer point on it. I recognise my Judeau-Christian heritage and am proud of it. I firmly believe in G-d and Yeshua, and along side my Torah, Holy Bible, I have and read the Qur'an, as I know the G-d of Islam is my G-d.

On July 21, 1991 I was baptised into the Mormon church. I got my CTR ring on the day. CTR means 'Choose the Right', but my sister and I said it also stands for 'Christ the Righteous'.

My Book of Mormon is as treasured as my other books of the Abrahamic Faiths.

I don't see myself as a member of a cult, and I have free will. Due to my ill health I can't attend the service. Members do come to visit me regularly and continue to make me feel a part of a large family. They are well aware of how I love the Torah, Holy Bible, Qur'an, and I also, love the Book of Mormon.

* Mayan type temples have long been recorded in the Book of Mormon of having been in the States when Christ went to the people in the Americas, in particular North America.

Not so long back and I can't remember the website, a Mayan type pyramid (temple) was found in America, which the Mormon people knew had been a part of American history, long before it came to be found by archeologists. I will find the website of the pyramid and photograph the page of the Book of Mormon that shows it several centuries before it was found on American soil.

I chose to be baptised in the Mormon church as it embraced all that I believe in and I am not loved any less by those in the church. I can say one thing that I know for certain and without a doubt to be true-the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is NOT a CULT.

They don't admit to being perfect, as none of us are, but they strive to live a perfect life and Christ's example. I am glad to be a member of the LDS church.

At the end of the day, no matter who I choose to affiliate with, I affiliate myself with G-d and recognise the profound sacrifice of my saviour Yeshua to which my ancestor witnessed his death and resurrection.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 01:26 PM
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I swear, everytime I see this thread I read it as "Morons are not Christians?" Grrr, damn that brain of mine!



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 02:47 PM
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**************************************************
"I DON'T NEED ANY STINKING PROPHETS!!!

God knows who I am and where I live. He can divulge to me anytime his wishes and what his intentions and rules are. "
**************************************************
I've never read anywhere that our prophets smelled bad :-) I supposed we all do sometimes. lol

Now to be more serious. You make a really good point. Mormons would generally agree with you too. I certainly do. I can see how easy it would be looking at us from the outside to assume that we are ruled by an iron-fisted spiritual dictator since we have such a cohesive, defined, hierarchical organization. We are highly decentralized when it comes to revelation and decision making though. In fact, one of the most important concepts in our church is personal revelation and personal contact with God. Nobody is special, or actually I should say that everyone is special when it comes to that.

We in no way want people to follow someone (a prophet) blindly or submit to spiritual coercion. Every single person should have a connection to Deity and receive their own truth and light. We have a term for that bad coercion in our church. We call it “unrighteous dominion,” and it is wrong to build that type of relationship with other people.

Every person is responsible for themselves first. Stepping up from there is the family. Parents have to make decisions for their children (until they are capable of doing so for themselves), so we seek guidance and revelation as parents to do the right things. Stepping up from that might be a local congregation. We have no paid ministry, so everyone is a volunteer doing the best they can. If you are asked to manage or direct something, like a youth group for example, you might seek personal revelation to accomplish the goals of that group and do a good job.

Anyway, the general idea is that all of God’s children can have direct access to him. We encourage people to study important issues that effect their lives and their spirituality, to ponder and meditate on them, and to engage God in prayer to seek answers and guidance.

As a missionary, I did not expect anyone to just take my word for it. Looking back (I’m 38 now), I can’t believe anyone in their right mind took a dorky 19 year old young man dressed in a business suit seriously (thinking of myself). When we teach new people about our church, the first thing we do is ask them to read The Book of Mormon (because that is something that makes us different, not that it is more important than the Bible), think about it, and pray to God to ask Him if it contains true teachings for them. It starts right from the beginning a process of questioning what imperfect people tell each other and going to God for answers.

I understand this is going out to an audience, the majority of which are skeptical about organized religion. Many may not even believe in God. This probably all sounds totally whacked. That’s fine and I accept that, and I have no hard feelings about it. From my viewpoint you are all my brothers and sisters (as children of God). I have the utmost respect for anyone who is striving for truth and understanding, especially those who are working to spread love and peace in the world. It’s a very confusing world. There are a lot of ideas out there. There are a lot of beautiful ideas too.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:03 PM
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Please understand the following:

Mormonism is a compleat antithesis and opposite of Catholicism. The former respects free will, which is the right of the individual to disbelieve what is being offered. The latter does not, in fact Catholicism does not intend to allow any scrap of free will to exist, content only to drive home it's dominance over even the infant child.

I believe that as humanity became more civilized with the rise of industry, (circa 1800) there was a window for a compleat and sudden shift of Christ worship on Earth. I think the people who have access to ALL TRUTHS decided to create a scenario whereby truth was passed onto humans in the correct context (family based i.e. Mormons are excellent individuals and also collectively form excellent families) but in such a SOPHISTICATED and SEMI_LUDICROUS way that a person would utterly, compleatly have to obtain faith and a personal vision, to accept the system as such. said in a different way, Joe Mormon must personally and deeply understand that Jesus did come to the NEW WORLD and did sew a very subtle mystery here. This is because by accepting this New Testament of Jesus, he makes himself and his family potential targets for reprisal, as has happened in the past.

His neighbors might laugh at him (Smith may have been lying and Joe Mormon could be a fool) and he may even be killed for his faith in the future.

I am telling you this also: It does not matter if you think Jesus was a magi or a real healer or EVEN if he was crucified or not. If you want JEsus' blood to be part of the equation, you will probably be Catholic. If you have to see JEsus whipped, like say Mel Gibson, then that is from whence your faith eminates. Understand please that Mr Mel Gibson is a good man and takes good care of his family. But why is it so important that his savior be flayed? I personally am far more concerned with what "my savior" would be doing on Earth anyway, since he could just save myself and also all of humanity in so many other ways. I don't care if he suffered, because all of us suffer. BUT all of us humans do not get to have Satan tempt us with everything the world can offer. No I am far more concerned with what JEsus does with the power given to him. This is why I like the Mormon vision of Jesus much more than the weakened, emaciated Catholic version. Mormons think about the future, Catholics think about the past.

Jesus, in my opinion, is like a video game character who had the cheat codes. Basically he can ressurect someone, but it drains a year off his life or something. He has the keys to usage of supra-physical power while embodied in human form. This gave him the ability to weave very subtle miracles absed on analogoies (allusions to Moses in miracles). He didn't use the edge of the sword to get his message accross, but wanted to weave a message of love based on powerful works. BUT notice he did not perform miracles for those of little faith.

Mormons and Catholics do powerful works of various sorts which may or may not serve good. Let us both examine those works of both houses in an honest spirit of truth, in the spirit of Christ. Shall we not let church leaders have families and even have a buncha wives if all are agreeable to it? Shall we make the church leader a sexless man who cringes and vomits around women, or shall we have him bed a different women each week and create a swarming loving home?

Oh by the way I am one of those new age goofballs who feels that all of us can call upon the spirit of Christ to act through us when the situation is utterly just and proper. Your hand and toungue will move as does Jesus, in those moments, and I know persons of both Catholic and Mormon faiths have grasped what I just wrote. It has happened, they felt it, and they knew who moved them.

Believe unto the lord and ye shall be saved. But what lord? One who allow his church to trample? Or one who wants his church to represent simple core concepts which actually produce a better world for all people?


[edit on 17-2-2007 by smallpeeps]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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rivergoddess you nailed it. I too come from a long line of mormon pioneers. My great grandparents escaped from joseph smith.

Just like Christians can be put into catagories of Catholic, baptist, methodist, etc, Mormons can as well. There was the Church of Christ that turned into the LDS then there is the reorgonized lds the restructured lds and another popped up a few years ago. I know quite a few. I live not far from their gathering place in Missouri. You are all right, they are the nicest people you will ever meet, and very family oriented. But, when it comes down to it, if you are not part of their church, then you are the "weeds" that will not make it to heaven, because you have not seen the way. I have had family members and friends beg me to join, because they dont want to see me left behind. I love them, and appreciate their concern, but I will honestly say those comments/judgments can be hurtfull.

To me, Christ was a role model. Being a Christian to me means trying to be like him. He loved everyone. Gave whatever he could to whoever needed it. Helped everyone he could no matter where they lived, what their station was, or if they were believers or not. He drove demons out of people, made the blind see, and fed many. He loved everyone. He didnt do it for fame, fortune, or brownie points. He did it just because, and with out judging others. He even promised the theif who died next to him a place in heaven. He didnt care what religion, what he had done, what his station was. He stole nothing not even a life when it would have saved his. He told no lies even when it would have eased his pain. Living like that, that is what I think it means to be Christian.

But, a lot of people catagorize differently. Fact is there are Jews, Muslims, Budists, Christians, Pagans, etc. Though I believe they are all based on the same basic truths, they are all unique in their own ways. They all have something, some belief that sets them apart from the rest. I dont think saying "Mormons are not Christians" is a slam, just an observation. They too have beliefs that set them apart, more so than just the different beliefs that the other Christian subgroups have. Differences that set them in a catagory all their own, just like Muslims, Jews, Budists, etc.

How do you catagorize religions? If someone comes up to you and says they are Budist, or Jewish, or Muslim, what does that tell you. Everyone catagorizes these things differently, how do you ......not judge.....but catagorize them in your mind? What sets them apart from each other, to you?



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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Most Christians I encounter are not Christians in the pure sense, either. They tend to pick and choose the parts of the Bible they like and ignore the stuff that's a little too impractical for them.

I think that if you're going to call yourself something like "Christian" then you either follow all the rules or you don't get to call yourself that. People who claim to be Christian and gay, for instance. Or pro-death penalty Christians. Or Christians who have bank accounts or drive cars. Sorry, but you ain't Christians.

Jesus was pretty clear about what it took to be one of his followers, and I would guess that there are probably less than 10,000 people in the entire world who have the fortitude to go by his rules. The minute you start making up your own rules (like the Mormons), or trying to wiggle out of what Jesus said (to the best of anyone's knowledge), then you're not a Christian. Simple as that.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by SuicideVirus]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Rivergoddess beat me to it! *shakes fist angrilly*


No, Mormons are not christians, they are a cult offshoot kind of like Jehova's witnesses.

They stopped being christians when they began following that nutcase joseph smith which is really laughable when you read about his story.
Sorry, I dont mean to sound like im slamming mormons, I just dont see how they could believe joseph smith was anymore than a conartist.

Anyway, for me, Christianity has to stem from its original roots and maintain its original teachings for it to be considered christian. That is Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Anything else that is added, like a prophet named Joseph Smith automatically makes it non-christian in my book.






I am sorry, even though I agree they are conartist's etc...but the Mormon church is founded off of the Bible. You just don't know much about them. Which is a good thing in my book.



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by mrsdudara
Ok, so we have a multi millionare Mormon which is a new religion with falce prophets and all - salt lake city,utah hot shot - mason, running for president?

i do not think his religion should have anything to do with him being able to run a country..i mean look at the guy we have now!!!religion and politics don't mix and should never mix..that is are problem now...



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by SuicideVirus
Jesus was pretty clear about what it took to be one of his followers, and I would guess that there are probably less than 10,000 people in the entire world who have the fortitude to go by his rules. The minute you start making up your own rules (like the Mormons), or trying to wiggle out of what Jesus said (to the best of anyone's knowledge), then you're not a Christian. Simple as that.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by SuicideVirus]


The problem comes in with the fact that "what Jesus said" has been tampered with throughout the ages.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:09 PM
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Part 1 of 2


Originally posted by mrsdudara
You are all right, they are the nicest people you will ever meet, and very family oriented. But, when it comes down to it, if you are not part of their church, then you are the "weeds" that will not make it to heaven, because you have not seen the way. I have had family members and friends beg me to join, because they don’t want to see me left behind. I love them, and appreciate their concern, but I will honestly say those comments/judgments can be hurtful.


Yes. In the end, we proclaim that we are the ones that are right, and we have the "fullness of the Gospel." We go around trying to convert people and bring them this great information we have. It's exciting to us! :-)

The thing is (and you all realize this) that there are a lot of other religions and sects within those religions that also believe they are the only ones who are completely right. Yup. Most religions believe they are right. I actually think it's kind of odd and self-defeating for people to form an organized religion that they don't think has the answers. But to each their own. That's fine.

I am sorry that you felt hurt by comments like that from people in my church. I personally think they have an incorrect way of integrating our teachings within themselves when they cause results like that. Our members are not perfect though. All people everywhere are at different levels of personal spiritual development. Some people in my church don’t like it when I make these comments, but I like to make them squirm a little and step outside their comfort zone a bit :-) I’ve met people who are not members of my church that are far more spiritually developed than people within my church who supposedly “have all the truth.” I can’t help it. I call it like I see it and that is what I see sometimes. Who’s better? an angry, violent Mormon or a righteous, loving Atheist? :-) I love to watch my own people’s gears grind in their head :-)

Some people I’ve admired:
The family across the street from us is Catholic. They are a wonderful family and especially the Mom/Wife. She is a very loving person and I always appreciate her focus on spirituality. I love to go listen to her sing in their choir. They are very good! I had a co-worker many years ago that was very devout Catholic. She was a real inspiration to me and we had a lot of great talks about religion and God. Also, we used to see a Muslim pediatrician. The Dr. and her office assistant (who wore full Burqa) were some of the kindest people I know. She continued to care for our 6 children when I lost my job and insurance coverage. I noticed how many people she treated in her office that at least appeared to have been lower in the socio-economic status chain. I wonder how many of those she treated at a discount or for free? She was definitely a great example of the charity pillar of Islam (and the love of God for other people). I could go on and on.

I think when people get all scared about other people’s “salvation,” wring their hands and worry about it, and then go to tell other people about how they aren’t going to make it to heaven, they are actually expressing that they are not completely comfortable with their beliefs and have fear. That gets expressed as form of superiority complex – like we are good and everyone else is evil and burns in hell (or something like that).



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:10 PM
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Part 2 of 2

I read the teachings of Jesus and I see someone who taught by word and example. He didn’t preach fire and brimstone. He said “come follow me.” Do what he did. Try to figure out what he meant and integrate that into yourself. Do it, don’t just talk about it. It’s stuff like that. He didn’t focus so much time on going around to tell everyone they were a failure.

I look back and think about what I was taught as a child. I look back at how that understanding has changed over time. I look at myself now and what I understand. I can project into the future that my understanding will continue to change as I quest for truth, light and divinity. The one thing I feel more certain about than anything is that I don’t know everything :-).

I personally believe in my church and its teachings. I suspect in the end that “Church” is a temporary concept in the great expanse of the eternities. On our side of the divide from God there are churches. I’m honestly not so sure on the other side (in the heavens?) that “church” is a relevant concept as one approaches God. That doesn’t make churches meaningless now. It just means to me that it’s that attachment or feeling like you are on the “winning team” and everyone else is losing, it may not be so important in the long run.



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