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Lost Bible Books, anyone have sources?

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posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 04:59 AM
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Again Sunmatrix, you state

As for the lost books of the Bible...........there arel no lost books. These so called lost books are of Gnostic origin and are an attempt to confuse the truth. We can trace the origin of the Gnostics to Zoroaster who is none other than Nimrod.


Every time you try to post that as a final statement I will disagree. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.

If you want to make this claim 'there arel no lost books. These so called lost books are of Gnostic origin and are an attempt to confuse the truth.' then please answer each of my questions below.

The Bible is supposed to be a record of what?
Who decided what should go into the Bible?
Who collected the texts to be included in the Bible?
Were the versions used all the original versions or were they translated from another language?
What were the qualifications of the people who decided what texts to include and what texts to exclude?
Who was paying them?
Why did they choose to exclude certain texts and not others?
Which texts did they exclude?
Do you understand the meaning of texts that were excluded?

Please answer those questions or else I'm afraid it is transparently obvious that you are just a 'true believer' who isn't interested in the real truth.
In which case your answers aren't worth the time it takes you to churn them out.
Please be scholarly in your reply.

sincerely
Nebankh




posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 06:35 AM
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Can you comment on the Apocryphon of John for starters please Sunmatrix?


By its own declaration, the Secret Book of John is a sacred text intended to be shared only with individuals properly prepared to receive its revelation. In second-century Christian communions circulation of the text probably remained restricted. Amazingly, despite limited circulation and the effective later efforts by evolving Christian orthodoxy to destroy all such “heretical” scriptures, four separate manuscripts of the SBJ have survived into our own age. Three of these were found among the Nag Hammadi codices discovered in 1945, while a fourth copy was independently recovered fifty years earlier from another site in Egypt. All four versions date to the fourth century. Three of the four appear to be independently produced Coptic translations of an original text in Greek. Two of the four manuscripts (NHC II and NHC IV) are so similar that they most likely represent copies of a single common source.

To put in context the uniqueness of finding four complete copies of a document of this extreme antiquity, note that we possess only two fairly complete manuscripts of the canonical gospels of equal age (the Codex Vaticanus and Sinaiticus). Only a few fragments of canonical texts with dates of creation earlier than the fourth century have survived. These four manuscripts of the Apocryphon of John represent some of the oldest known surviving books. From the ancient sands of Egypt, they come to our modern age bearing a timeless message.

The Secret Book of John is the one Gnostic text every student seeking to understand the roots of ancient Christianity must read. At first reading it will seem unlike anything encountered in the New Testament -- excepting perhaps the Apocalypse of John. Like the Apocalypse, this too is a revelation text, a secret and sacred vision. It is the story of God, and by reflection, the story of Humankind -- a penetrating psychological reflection on the source of consciousness and the existential predicament of an eternal light indwelling life. It is not an intellectual curiosity, nor is it a text to be "surfed", in the perverse sense of modern internet reading.


Anyone interested could use the Stevan Davies Translation --'' Davies renders the text in a free-verse format that greatly enhances its beauty and intelligibility. This is the translation we recommend to readers meeting the text for the first time''
www.gnosis.org...

Or there's the scholar's editions, ''providing comparative translations of each of the four surviving manuscripts of the Apocryphon of John.''

Short Version (NHL Codex III,1 and Berlin Codex BG 8502,2)
www.gnosis.org...

Long Version (NHL Codex II,1 and Codex IV,1)
www.gnosis.org...

Please also share your thoughts on the Trimorphic Protennoia. I assume if you have made judgement, you have read all of theses texts?
www.gnosis.org...



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Nebankh
Again Sunmatrix, you state

As for the lost books of the Bible...........there arel no lost books. These so called lost books are of Gnostic origin and are an attempt to confuse the truth. We can trace the origin of the Gnostics to Zoroaster who is none other than Nimrod.


Every time you try to post that as a final statement I will disagree. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.


Agreed. The truth does not require me to repeat it to be true. Further, you linking to a site with incorrect information doesn't make the info true.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 11:18 AM
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Since the actual question of the thread opener was what 'biblical texts' have been 'lost', here is a page with good resources:
www.tertullian.org...

Also recall that some texts that some of the early church fathers thought were cannonical ended up being rejected, WITHOUT their advocates being considered heretical or anything like that. SO in a sense, there are some 'lost' texts.


Here is a table of lost and other bible related texts:
www.tertullian.org...


Here is an easier to browse list of lost works:
www.tertullian.org...

Not necessarily works intended for the cannon of course.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Nebankh

If you want to make this claim 'there arel no lost books. These so called lost books are of Gnostic origin and are an attempt to confuse the truth.' then please answer each of my questions below.



The Bible is supposed to be a record of what?

The word of God. The Old Testament proclaims the coming of a Messiah who the Jews themselves won't see. The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. Please feel free to provide an incorrect prophecy.



Who decided what should go into the Bible?


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



Who collected the texts to be included in the Bible?

The Old Testament was collected by the Jews and the New Testament was collected by the Christian churchs. Example, If Paul wrote a letter to the Ephesians they would copy it and send it to other churches and vice versa.


Were the versions used all the original versions or were they translated from another language?

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, The New Testament was written in Greek.


What were the qualifications of the people who decided what texts to include and what texts to exclude?

I would think that the early church leaders were fully qualified to make a determination if the they received a letter from Paul or if they had the Gospel of Matthew as these writers were alive in that day. These phoney baloney gospels after the people are dead weren't included because people knew the facts.


Who was paying them?

The Jewish scribes, keepers of the Old Testament were taken care of the by the Jews. The New Testament books were gathered by the churches. No one was paying them. Constantine ordered 50 Bibles copied in his day, but certainly had nothing to do with choosing the books.


Why did they choose to exclude certain texts and not others?

The Old Testament was kept by the Jew. The Catholic Bible has added books to the Old Testament that are not of Jewish origin. They were written in Greek. As for the New Testament the books were written by the apostles or those within their circle.


Which texts did they exclude?

Gnostic books written by others or after the death of the apostles were excluded.


Do you understand the meaning of texts that were excluded?

Sure.....plain and simple.......an attack on the truth. Nothing new by any means.


Please answer those questions or else I'm afraid it is transparently obvious that you are just a 'true believer' who isn't interested in the real truth.

Certainly I am a believer because of the facts. You can choose between the truth or the lie.

Now, back to my question.

I'm not quite sure where you have come up with this poppycock.(Da Vinci Crock possibly) Are you saying that the Jewish Old Testament writings are inaccurate? You say the books have been rewritten? How so. Can I not go back to the original Hebrew and translate it right now?



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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so what youre saying basically Sun Matrix is that Christianity is the right religion and the Hebrew scribes were all liars
well I'd have expected something a little more credible from a souless satanist like you but there you go

so how do you account for the King James Version being a derivation of the original book and not the word of God himself as was claimed for the pentuteuch
and how do you account for the changes made to the KJV by the scholars in King James time
were they divinely inspired to be able to say which bits were lies in the old testament that they copied out and changed or did they change it for their own political agenda which just so happened to be divinely inspired because God was rooting for the protestants at that time

and really
how do you account for the fact that no matter what your belief satanic or not that Christianity so far has accounted for over 500,000,000 innocent men women and children who it murdered as heretics since its inception (150,000,000 in america alone)
were they all sinners



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
so what youre saying basically Sun Matrix is that Christianity is the right religion and the Hebrew scribes were all liars


Hardly. I'm saying that those that believe in the prophesied Messiah believe exactly what the scribes wrote. There is no lie. It was prophesied that the Jews would reject the chief cornerstone...........and so it happened. You are certainly welcome to attempt to provide an incorrect prophecy..........if you can.



and really
how do you account for the fact that no matter what your belief satanic or not that Christianity so far has accounted for over 500,000,000 innocent men women and children who it murdered as heretics since its inception (150,000,000 in america alone)
were they all sinners


Maybe you should check the Bible. The answer is there for all to see. I don't expect you to understand Mysery Babylon and the Roman Empire as you have yet to figured out who Marduk is. If it wasn't so sad, I would find your ignorance laughable.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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oh great
so perhaps as you are claiming in your ignorance to know the answer which as you say is in the bible that justifies the murder of half a billion people you can point it out
I'm all ears
1.) I'd like passage and verse please
2.) I'd also like to see a link to someone other than you who is claiming the same thing

or are you claiming that you are the only person on earth who has all the answers
think you're a prophet or something ?

see I've never seen you post a link supporting anything you've said
this means in practical terms that you're talking crap
all the time
less you can now prove otherwise
its put up or shut up time devotee of Stan

heres my prophecy
you won't be able to do it
so you'll make something up
which will also be unsupported with any links






[edit on 17-2-2007 by Marduk]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
oh great
so perhaps as you are claiming in your ignorance to know the answer which as you say is in the bible that justifies the murder of half a billion people you can point it out


You really are quite clueless aren't you. I never said that there was any reason to justify the killing of people. I said if you understood Mystery Babylon and Rome you would understand the origin of these killings. I'll get as simple as I can. When the Boston tea party occured those responsible looked like Indians. Where they Indians??????????????
And so it is when the Roman empire conducted the crusades...........was that the Christian church????????? I suggest you examine the history of the Catholic church and Constantine the worshipper of the Unconquerable Sun. There is only so much that the blind man can understand when he can't see.

en.wikipedia.org... " target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by leafer
I know there were missing bible books from being destroyed or lost but does anyone have any links or books I can buy that can translate what has been found?

Thanks



i guess you haven't looked into the 'dead sea scrolls' sites, i suggested earlier in your thread.


...The first attack (of a 40 year end-of-time war) of the Sons of Light shall be undertaken against the forces of the Sons of Darkness,
the army of Belial: the troops of Edom, Moab, the sons of Ammon...
supporting them are those who have violated the covenant.
The sons of Levi, the sons of Judah, and the sons of Benjamin, those exiled to the wilderness, shall fight against them with [...] against all their troops, when the exiles of the Sons of Light return from the Wilderness of the Peoples to camp in the Wilderness of Jerusalem. [...] etc etc

source: www.pbs.org...


this snip (from the linked source) is from what's known as THE WAR SCROLL,
a document found among the 2,000+ year old spiritual manuscripts which formed the basis and broader platform of Hebrew+Jewish+Christian faith related worldviews... or in-other-words, inspired writings that inspired this present day Judeo-Christian meme of religiousity.

i reckon the only reason The War Scroll isn't in the contemporary Bible is because the Books of; Daniel/Ezekiel/Revelations are already in the Bible...otherwise the recent discovery of this 'Essene' (think zealot) 'Book' would be included.........imho



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 04:29 AM
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posted by Marduk
heres my prophecy
you won't be able to do it
so you'll make something up
which will also be unsupported with any links




posted by sunmatrix
You really are quite clueless aren't you. I never said that there was any reason to justify the killing of people. I said if you understood Mystery Babylon and Rome you would understand the origin of these killings. I'll get as simple as I can. When the Boston tea party occured those responsible looked like Indians. Where they Indians??????????????

ah so insults and rubbish
looks like i am a prophet after all
maybe I should now form my own religon



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Marduk


posted by Marduk
heres my prophecy
you won't be able to do it
so you'll make something up
which will also be unsupported with any links




posted by sunmatrix
You really are quite clueless aren't you. I never said that there was any reason to justify the killing of people. I said if you understood Mystery Babylon and Rome you would understand the origin of these killings. I'll get as simple as I can. When the Boston tea party occured those responsible looked like Indians. Where they Indians??????????????

ah so insults and rubbish
looks like i am a prophet after all
maybe I should now form my own religon


Did you check the link oh clueless prophet?



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 04:24 AM
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posted by sunmatrix
Did you check the link oh clueless prophet

oh more insults what a polite and reasonable person you are
heres what I asked for


1.) I'd like passage and verse please
2.) I'd also like to see a link to someone other than you who is claiming the same thing

heres what you posted
en.wikipedia.org...

and youre calling me clueless
laughable
but what should I have expected from someone who calls satan lord

posted by sunmatrix
there are other lords of which Satan is one

you should go and get one of those signs that shops have on their doors "out to lunch" take it to the local tattoo parlour and ask them to print it in big letters across your forehead
if you like you can have it decorated with flames to show everyone your satanic allegience



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:56 AM
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Seriously now, do we need to poke fun at each other, and continue to insult one another just because we think a different way? And before anyone says anything about who started what first, it doesn't matter. Actions speak louder than words, and these actions tarnish the image that ATS is all about.

To get back onto the topic at hand, I find the rather comprehensive list posted on the first page here to be, at best, convoluted. It lists books that are in the Bible, as well as those that are not. I'm just curious what the intent was when posting this rather large list. Couldn't we have just stuck with those that weren't included in the Bible? It would have made for a much shorter list, if you ask me.

TheBorg



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 01:22 AM
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1. The Book of the Wars of the Lord: We can read about this book in (Bible) Numbers 21:14.

2. The Book of Jasher: We read about this book in Joshua 10:13. This book is also mentioned in II Samuel, 1:18.

3. Three books of Solomon: The first book contained one thousand and five Psalms, the second described the history of creation, and the third consisted of three thousand Proverbs. This book is mentioned in I Kings 4:32.

4. The Book of Manners of the Kingdom: We find the mention of this missing book in I Samuel 10:25.

5. The History of Samuel the Seer: (6) The History of Prophet Nathan & (7) The Book of Gad the Seer: These three missing books (5, 6, & 7) are mentioned in I Chronicles 29:29.

8. The Book of Shemiah, the Prophet: (9) The Book of Iddo, the Seer: Both (8 & 9) books are mentioned in II Chronicles 12:15.

10. The Prophecy of Ahijah (11) The Visions of Iddo, the Seer: These two books (10 & 11) are mentioned in II Chronicles 9:29. The books of Iddo and Nathan are also mentioned in this verse.

12. The Book of Jehu, the son of Hanani: This book is mentioned in II Chronicles 20:24.

13. The Book of Isaiah, the Prophet: This book consisted of complete accounts of Uzziah. It is mentioned in II Chronicles 26:22.

14. The Book of Visions of Isaiah: This lost book contained the complete accounts of Hezekiah and is mentioned in II Chronicles 32:32.

15. The Lamentation of Jeremiah: This lost book consisted of Jeremiah’s lamentation for Josiah, and is described in II Chronicles 35:25.

16. The Book of Chronicles: This missing book is mentioned in Nehemiah 12:23. (This book is not included in the present books. This is another book, which does not exist today)

17. The Book of Covenant of Moses: This missing book is mentioned in Exodus 24:7.

18. The Book of the Acts of Solomon: We find the mention of this book in I Kings 11:14.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 01:38 AM
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delta33,

Is there a resource anywhere, that you know of, that has these books, or records of where we might go about finding them? I, and several people that I know here would be very interested in reading them.

Any information on these books would be helpful and much appreciated.

TheBorg



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:19 PM
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While I agree with you, if you don't respond to the weak minded that gives them a green light to constantly harass. A good punch in the nose is about all a bully understands. Look in all the threads he posts in. The pattern is always the same.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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So you're threatening physical violence now Sunmatrix
if you like I'll happily give you my home address so you can try it in person
better bring a tube for when you meet me though
you'll need it at the hospital to eat through

if anyone was to look at all your posts they'd soon see that you're a satanist with a typical satanist agenda
i.e. you couldn't tell the truth if you tried
none of your "facts" are ever supported by links
none of your evidence has ever been accepted by a single other poster
and you have been warned for trolling several times by the mod team
you are in no position to criticise me either physically or mentally
and really
you have idea above your station
your laughable
and anyone whos ever read one of your posts knows it




[edit on 20-2-2007 by Marduk]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 02:02 PM
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Be a man and quit crying for help.

Let's get back to the lost books that don't exist.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 03:03 PM
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Let's get back to the lost books that don't exist.

oxymoron



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