is your love natural, or is it enhanced by commercial human pheromones???

i was quickly reading about "human pheromones" and i came across this:

NaturalAttraction.com...

Human pheromones are gender specific, naturally occurring substances that trigger specific “mating” responses. Most importantly, only a human pheromone can trigger a response in humans. Natural Attraction with patented human pheromones are real products that work, using real science that delivers on the promise of human pheromones.

this website is actually selling these human pheromones

...

And what did these studies show?
Increased levels of confidence and well being; greater levels of feeling good about oneself; a sense of being more “in control” of their emotions. Men and women in these broad- based scientific studies just absolutely felt better about themselves and projected these feelings to others. In other words, they enhanced their basic natural attraction.

...

(bolded by me)...
from: linky...

what i would like to know is this:

will this affect "love" somehow???

for example, if a male wears this, would a woman be attracted to him for no other reason than because he is wearing it???

wouldn't this affect "love" and relationships drastically

this seems like mind control to me

i have spent a few minutes reading about this so excuse me if i am way off




[edit on 19-1-2007 by they see ALL]

I believe this site and the claims it makes owe more to commerce than science.

There are such things as human pheromones, but from what I've read, the mechanics of their functioning and what precisely they do are both poorly understood -- far too poorly to allow them to be used with predictable effects in a perfume or any other cosmetic application.

Having said that, I've no doubt we'll be bottling, selling and using them soon.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I believe this site and the claims it makes owe more to commerce than science.

that's what i thought too...

but, there are many sites on the internet discussing their "effectiveness"...

Having said that, I've no doubt we'll be bottling, selling and using them soon.

this is already being done...

is this a sign that it works???

or is it just false hope for people who can't find a mate

maybe its a little of both

Originally posted by they see ALL

Having said that, I've no doubt we'll be bottling, selling and using them soon.

this is already being done... is this a sign that it works???

Not necessarily.

Think of all the baldness cures, pre-Viagra specifics for impotence and the endless, sorry array of patent medicines and cosmetics that, throughout history, have offered to cover over or eliminate the ills that the flesh is heir to...

Originally posted by Astyanax
Not necessarily.

Think of all the baldness cures, pre-Viagra specifics for impotence and the endless, sorry array of patent medicines and cosmetics that, throughout history, have offered to cover over or eliminate the ills that the flesh is heir to...

true...

what i am really interested is if it works and if it is like a form of mind control, per se...

remember what you see with your eyes is not what yoou actually see. i think reallity is somewhat like the matrix. male and females have different energy makeups, this is what attracts people to the opposite sex.

no one can really know what relaity is actually like, so how can we say that these pheromones actually do what people think they exactly do.

humans react to others in a way that is often complex to understand, like why do some fall for others, when other people just do not see why.

just think the reason those things do not work is because human interaction is far more complex, than just pheromones.

just imagine if you could just see humans exactly how they look, just what they look like should be just energy, but it is how we percieve those energies that count.

for me, there is something more to this male female thing, we do not understand yet, and how it works. people can play with peoples sexuallity but they do not seem to understand it fully.

like why would not all males react to female pheromones exactly the same if there was something to it.

personally i think humans see humans exactly how they really are, but our minds, build mental pictures of them to do with our 3d reality, but its not how huimans would actually look.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by andy1033]

thanks andy1033 for your input...

i don't really agree with it, but thanks...

At this point there is no scientific evidence that supports pheromone products have any effect on human pair bonding. It is all about selling a product based on spurious claims.

There are a number of studies on the subject and while there are gender specific human pheromones, their effects are generally quite minor. It has been proven that female pheromones do have an effect on menstrual cycles. When women live together, over time their menstrual cycles will come in align and they will have their periods at roughly the same time of the month. The pheromone is in their perspiration.

Thus far, there is no known pheromone that has any significant effect on human mating. Unless you count the effect of beer.

Originally posted by Terapin
At this point there is no scientific evidence that supports pheromone products have any effect on human pair bonding.

I disagree.

The effect of sensory input on hormones is essential to any explanation of mammalian behavior, including aspects of physical attraction. The chemical signals we send have direct and developmental effects on hormone levels in other people. Since we don't know either if, or how, visual cues might have direct and developmental effects on hormone levels in other people, the biological basis for the development of visually perceived human physical attraction is currently somewhat questionable. In contrast, the biological basis for the development of physical attraction based on chemical signals is well detailed.
...
By definition a human pheromone elicits changes in the physiology and/or behavior of a conspecific. Stern and McClintock [41] showed that the pheromones of women regulate ovulation in other women, presumably by affecting levels of LH and FSH. Berliner, MontiBloch, JenningsWhite and DiazSanchez [42] suggest that a progesteronic pheromone alters LH pulsatility in men. These studies show that human pheromones, or that a putative human pheromone, elicit change in hormones.

NEL, Human pheromones (emphasis mine)

When copied, the entire article is about 50 pages long.

However, it shows quite clearly that pheromones play an integral part in mating, specifically mammalian mating. (humans are mammals, remember.) The report goes on to talk specifically about humans, as shown above. (It also gets into the nitty gritty about the different kinds of pheromones, which is interesting, but somewhat confusing...)

There are a number of studies on the subject and while there are gender specific human pheromones, their effects are generally quite minor. It has been proven that female pheromones do have an effect on menstrual cycles. When women live together, over time their menstrual cycles will come in align and they will have their periods at roughly the same time of the month. The pheromone is in their perspiration.

Yup... because the pheromones affect the hormones...

It's not like we go around checking up on our roommates' periods, digging through the garbage, inquiring if they're ovulating yet.
The body releases pheromones, which our noses recognize, which triggers hormones, and thus our cycles change accordingly.

So yes, the pheromones play upon the hormones, which obviously effects mating.



Back to the OP - I have no doubt that our hygenic habits (showering constantly, shaving, et cetera) have effects on mating. All we have are visual cues, which are not enough -- the pheromones tell us *a lot* about other people, even if it's not conscious. (I learned this from the above cited article...)

I've been repulsed by people simply _because_ they tipped the bottle over their heads... *shudders*

And no doubt my inner-ape felt the same way.

The scents confuse the brain, which is what translates the pheromones into something useful (the end goal being procreation). If the information is missing, or mistranslated in some way, then the brain has nothing to go on besides visual cues (and whatever other wholly conscious cues -- keep in mind that pheromone-effects are all unconscious!), which undoubtedly leads to 'bad' mating habits.

The point is that putting on pheromone laced perfume will do nothing for you if you are using it to get lucky. Humans do have pheromones but their effects are minor in comparison with other species.

Pheromone laced perfume, maybe not.

Not showering for a week, yeah.

Humans may not put off as much as other animals, but that's not the point.

My point is that pheromones (no matter the amount) affect hormones -- which is mating.

The influence of human pheromones on social behavior may pale by comparison to the influence that pheromones may have on human reproduction. Olfactory cues are essential in animal, especially mammalian, sexual behavior. In humans these olfactory cues are difficult to isolate and related discussions have lead to controversy. Nonetheless, humans are capable of discriminating between males and females by olfactory cues alone [58].
...
In a parallel study, the influence of male odors on the menstrual cycle was tested [61]. Odor samples of male axillary secretions were again applied to the upper lips of female test subjects. Those who were not sexually active had irregular menstrual cycles at the beginning of the experiment. After 4 months the mean cycle length was 29.5±3 days length in a majority of the test subjects. This strongly suggested that male pheromones have a regulatory effect on the menstrual cycle.

(taken from above cited report)

So even male hormones have an effect on the menstrual cycle...

Doesn't matter the amount. It still plays a factor.

Again, does the pheromone-laced perfume work? I wouldn't think so... (hafta see how many people get lucky I guess.)

The OP is about COMMERCIAL pheromones and love. That's what I was talking about. Thus far there is no scientific evidence that juicing up is going to do you any good in finding love. I am well aware of how human pheromones work which is why I mentioned its effect on menstruation, but when it comes to using artificial means, it is just marketing nonsense. No human pheromone is going to make someone fall in love with you as that's not how it works in Humans.

Touche.

I think then that there has to be a line between mating and love.

If my cat were able (and sadly he's not), he'd mate -- not for love, but for a continuation of the species (and, I'd hope, a good time).

Love doesn't equal mating.

The perfume _might_ have some effects on mating...

But, I agree - no effect on love.

I don't know if it's pheromones but sometimes I feel drawn to certain women even though they may not be what I would consider attractive.
But there is just something that I can't describe that enchants me about them. I find these types of events usually occur when I am shopping in a Market, sober and really not looking for romance. Maybe it's the florescent lighting.

Originally posted by Diseria
The perfume _might_ have some effects on mating...

But, I agree - no effect on love.

okay, so there will no effect on "love"

but will it trigger the one smelling the pheromone to want to have sexual relations with the one wearing it

by the way, i am not going to buy this based on your answers (actually, i am not going to buy it at all)

Consider this: Many animals go in heat, and the female will only breed at this time. The Male of the species can smell the pheromones, given off by the female that is in estrus, and actively pursues her. In humans sex is often recreational and not just procreational. Human females do not go in heat like the lower mammals and the pheromone connection is statistically insignificant. While it is true that some scents may be attractive to males, they don't necessarily have to be pheromones. That is why perfumes are such a huge industry. Adding pheromones to a perfume is just a marketing ploy as it will not cause someone to wish to mate with you nor fall in love with you. Humans are far more complex that that. A simple smell will not do the trick.

Originally posted by Terapin
The point is that putting on pheromone laced perfume will do nothing for you if you are using it to get lucky. Humans do have pheromones but their effects are minor in comparison with other species.

What I know of the subject agrees with Terapin. The mating drive in homo sapiens may be somewhat controlled by hormones, but the cognitive portion of our brain overrides it.

I know we've all experienced the "Oh ghods, that human's SO delicioius" moment followed by the thought "...great eye candy, but ...eeeewww!"

While it might get a small advantage (if there were no other scents to interfere), you would also be in competition with others (who simply might smell good to your potential pool of mates). You might feel more confident and emboldened and approaches that you haven't tried before.

But let's face it -- smell isn't going to make a relationship.

There's a lot of emphasis on mating with "hotties" and not enough on finding compatible people. Your dream mate might not be the most physically adorable person in the world (and might seem less desirable to some), but emotional and intellectual compatibility are better relationship starters than a good hormone-based perfume.

Human females do not go in heat like the lower mammals

I'd have to disagree with you there...

Plus, the act of "falling in love" takes place when the two are seperated. Pheromones could have some residual effect that reenforces positive recall during the review after the interaction. Maybe they could help the mind disassociate negative attributes. Now that'd be a study.

Again, I point out the proverbial line in the sand -- there's a difference between mating (intercourse) and a relationship/falling in love.

I'm not denying that humans require more than a scent to fall in love. I'm not even disputing that. (Not gonna touch it with a twenty foot pole. Ain't gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.)

All I'm saying is that a human, which is a mammal, aka an animal, has the equipment to understand pheromones, which plays a key factor in hormones.

That is a fact.

Hormones affect lust. Lust is not equal to love. Lust does not require love.

Human pheromones are gender specific, naturally occurring substances that trigger specific “mating” responses. Most importantly, only a human pheromone can trigger a response in humans.

(from OP)

Mating does not require love. Mating does, however, require hormones, which require pheromones...

About a year ago I say a discovery channel special about this. Scientist did a study where they sent a woman into a bar when she wasnt ovulating and she didnt get hit on but they sent her back when she was ovulating and men found her irresistable LOL. To make sure that it was due to pheremones they repeated the experiment with spray on isolated pheremones and got the same result. no pheremones=G-d I must be ugly, pheremones =woo hoo Im a hottie!
If these men only knew it was a primitive urge to spread thier seed that drove them to this particular woman


However, I would reiterate the point another poster ointed out about there being a dfference between just getting laid and having a lasting relationship. Attraction happens in part due to some pheremones but not attachment.

Also, even though it is possible to isolate human pheremones, how do you know that is what you are really buying?


[edit on 22-1-2007 by kokoro]

[edit on 22-1-2007 by kokoro]