If you had a fleet of a billion or more craft...?

That's a name...haha

OK, first you said,

First off if the ailens are the good guys i would send one spaceship to each capital city of the world and "reveal" their existence.

These aren't ETs - they are human. In fact, it's you and a lot of other people. You know, people people.

The next statement would be fact,

...no more oh it was a weather balloon excuses or it's a test plane for the military. It would undoubtably be the real thing.

This will not be "spun". It will be a "mass landing" event, with a "Stay tuned, details to follow..." situation until you step off and advise.

The world will be at a standstill for those moments (which could be hours depending on how much drama you want to work up before getting off your ship lol).

You gave your aims as:

I would then send an Ambassordor (bad spelling i know!) to the United Nations and make a statement to all of the nations and to the world stating the aims. This would be:

1. Help Earth overcome global warming and fix the ozone layer
2. Confiscate all the nukes/chemical/biological weapons
3. Tell humanity to grow up and that the time of bickering and killing
over relgion is over
4. That the above measures would be enforced by a peacekeeping force of
a billion ships who will help in the removal of weapons etc

The thing is, the UN has been ineffective up to now, who says it will all of a sudden become a useful entity then? However, it would be important to be able to communicate in all languages. This would happen of course.

But I think it would be through our technology (so translators may not be necessary, but will help) - right to the guy on the street. No more mediation - we want to hear it right from the source. None of this communicating through government sources.

You said,

Once the aims have been reached and ailens are still proven to be
peaceful in intent...

Remember, these are humans - us. So we just need to get people on the same page with us and we're off.

You continued,

...then i would look at setting up a United Government not NWO style but
a genuine democractic institution akin to the Star Trek concept of the Federation. Each country would still retain their own laws and cultural identities but decisions affecting us on a Global scale would be done
by the United Government.

I have a huge problem with governments, but I see you are looking for some sort of central organizational (lawmaking/enforcing) entity...something like that...

I think, bottom line, the structure of our government has to change. Fundamentally. This is a flawed system, and it is not designed to
manage, or govern effectively, the race of people on this planet.

I like the idea my friend brought up of communityism. Where everyone is provided for, there isn't a central governing body per se, everyone does their part, and everyone is free - in every sense of the word. There must be a workable social form that allows for freedoms, as well as accounts for those that could be considered "threats", etc...

I agree in part with what you say here,

Having got this far i would invite Earth to join in partnership with the ailens and concentrate on space exploration setting up new colonies for Mankind to ease the physical burdens on Planet Earth.

We - humans - are the ones landing these ships. But I assume you mean for us to work with those that have provided us this technology, and others, to continue exploring space.

The universe must be not only generations of humans, but obviously would outlive anything - it's beyond comprehension...The forms we would take exploring beyond our human existence would be fascinating (of course you have to believe in life after physical death...anyway, off topic)...

You said,

If the ailens were hostile...

If there were "hostiles" we would have met them already. However, I can't speak for what you would find way out there...You said it yourself - we'd know by now...

You said,

I'm not sure if ailens have a non interference policy but i would like to think that they would interfere if say North Korea threw it's nuclear dummy out of the pram and started a nuclear temper tantrum!! Same for Iran too!!

Who knows? To some degree there must be...maybe not so much an interference policy, as there may just be information regarding weapons that would be devastating beyond our planet that they may be keeping from us...

As far as stopping certain attacks, etc., who says they haven't done so to some degree already. And this could be in the form of a friendly warning from one friend to his buddy in power, or what have you...

Who knows if a non-interference claus exists, and to what degree it is followed if it does. I understand that there is some play and flexibility involved in this universe with regard to how things are run. The creator is the ultimate prankster, and probably engenders this playfulness, or unpredictability in us - from the bottom to the top...

This last comment I share,

Here's to hoping that if Contact does come and boy we do need contact quite frankly to stop our rush towards self destruction, that it will be peaceful and one that benefits mankind

There seems to be a strong pull in the minds of terrific numbers of people on this planet toward ETs and ufos. There are a lot of eye opening things happening right now that a great majority are only coming into contact with via the Internet. This is a perfect example of why technology will help spread this message, and why it should be utilized during a mass landing event...

Thank you for your thoughts, Wirral!

And thank you, everyone, who has responded so far!!!

Hello again OnTheDeck,

I enjoy this little thought experiment of yours, rather entertaining. I wanted to comment on a few things.

You seem very keen on the idea of abolishing all form of 'governments' or 'authority'. I have to tell you, I'm having trouble envision how this would work in practical terms. If there is no central government how can humanity establish a common social system? If there's no central government who enforces and defines the legal system? Who creates the various laws to keep order within society? Are you suggesting a form of Anarchy? As I see it the goal would be to unify earth and bring everyone under the same laws and rules. Humans are very greedy by nature, if there's no central govnerment everyone will just do as they please, there's nothing to stop certain induviduals to gain increased power and wealth over others. I would imagine that various factions would develop, everyone would do what's in their own best interest, and eventually we'd be back to square one.

The only military you'd need would be to control the masses and quell any rebellions that surely would take place, at least early on in this revolution. However, eventually I'd like to get wrid of most of the military. With there being no wars between nations, you have a very limited use for a military force.

I also read that someone said that 'everyone should be allowed to believe in what they wish'. In theory it sounds great, however there are several practical problems. First of all, what do you do when certain groups believe they are the chosen people of God or that unless the rest of the world converts and follows their own beliefs, we're all going to hell. If their belief's are aggressive by nature, this will present a big problem down the line. Even worse are those that believe doomsday is near and that the "Lord" will return any day now to "fix" the world.

Additionally, those religious families that are "allowed to believe in whatever they wish", who protects their children? Who ensures that their children, whom will be growing up under their influence will be able to make a rational choice in terms of beliving or not beliving in their parents religion. By brain washing the child from an early age, the child will be trapped in their parents delusion, this is a crime in its self, in my honest opinion.

In today's society, if two parents belived in a flying spagghetti monster and that their child could not speak to anyone without first offering them a piece of spagghetti and saying "Praise thou my Spagghetti God!", people would think these parents where insane and if they enforced this rule on the child and severly punished he/her if she/he sinned, the parents might loose custody of their child and be placed in a mental hospital. However, this is no more silly then instilling fear into your children and portraying a picture that masturbation is evil and wrong. Both claims are unfounded and wrong, but for some messed up reason the latter behaviour is more socially acceptable among certain religious groups. People shold not be allowed to believe in whatever they choose, unless they are completely alone and do not affect anyone else with their stupidty. My points is that stupid religions should not be accepted! (I'm not very good at making points).

Also, when I envisioned a ruling elite of the most intelligent human beings in the world, I must point out that they are not exclusive. Some sort of system would have to be put in place to allow these members to be replaced out from time to time. Additionally, the ruling elite would also live under one very spesific law: The standard of living should for these induviduals never exceed the people that are worst off in society in general. So basically they'd be among the poorest members of society. If they improve the living conditions for the poorest members of society they'd ultimatly improve their own. This way the "poor" or the "less fortunate" would never be left behind.

JSR, You made some good points about cooperating with the existing power structures,

you just cant ignore, or, "take out" the power struture already in place. the existing power structure has great sway over the populace. it would be wise to directly address thoses governments first.

You said this same thing about religious leaders,

part of the power structure is the religons of the world. good or bad, they may hold more sway than the governments. you had better get those people on your side before you do anything.

You suggested beginning an insurrection in a peaceful way instead of a war. To remember that,

there is the law of unintended consequences.

I would agree in part. In this case, there would be no war and no bloodshed.

When I said insurrection, I really meant that philosophically. People will not revolt - they won't need to.

You will have done a number of things when you first land:

1) Completely disabled the world's militarys' ability to retaliate or attack you.
2) Completely made clear through whatever means (translators, technology, etc.) that you are in charge and this is a mass landing to reveal the truths to the world's population.
3) Provided a means by which necessities and information, etc., can be provided to every country on this planet - with the supplemental aid of the government if necessary.

The bottom line is that if the government is used at all, it would simply be to help in organizing your efforts, or whatever usefulness those government centers can provide, but communications, etc., would not be entrusted to those that have misused it.

Existing technology could be used to begin restructuring, communications, etc., but the government per se would be of limited use.

What use is our government now? I say this half jesting, but it's really true.

These are just my thoughts. I'm just a guy here. I don't have experience on population control, or emergency management, etc., but I would suggest that neither does our government (*cough* FEMA)...

Anyway, it would not be a bloody battle. It would be over before it began. The real trick is how things will unfold from there...But I think we're working that out...

No one wants more bloodshed, and this would end it for a long time...It's not just the saucers, it's everything that comes with them - technology, social interaction with other races, etc. It's a lot!

Thank you for your thoughts, JSR!

With regards to a religion, I would probably use my fleet of space craft to convince people to abandon religion.
With an introduction into a wider galactic society, I think people will no longer need the feeling of security a deity gives. The realisation that we are not alone in this huge empty vastness, will be a huge comfort to everyone.
And feeling secure in themselves, the idea of a deity controlling and watching over us would slowly fade away.




If it doesn't I could always just vaporise anyone who goes into a place of worship!

I gotcha! Excellent point!

Yes, we need the technology. Good idea! I think a lot of the technology would be supplied by our new friends...We'll have to see...

Of course if you could get potato chips that don't add calories it would have all been worth it...hehe

Thank you!!!

I also think that today's governments are flawed and needs to change. In my own view of a new one world central government, information would always be freely shared and the public would not be lied to or decieved. Lying in general should become frowned upon and be considered outmost dishonorable. Unfortunaly, in todays society, lying and deciving has become almost acceptable and encouraged. Lying is often far more effective than telling the truth! People should always be encouraged to challange and question them selves, the central government and others. This type of behaviour needs to be commonly acceptable.

I would also direct a large amount of resources towards exploring the Milkyway galaxy and looking for extra terrestial life in general, if it exists. Although, since I have one billion flying saucers, maybe that question is a given 'yes'. Someone would have had to build them, so I guess ET's exists in this fantasy. I would then attempt to establish communication and perhaps a peacefull alliance between any new civilizations. Though any civilization advanced enough to build one billion spacecraft and send them all to earth, probably have very limited interrest in speaking to primetive humans.

I'd get all the hot women and my family and say later to earth and the milky way...searching for some sexy new planets...with sweet air, fresh water, and supremely perfect climate..oh yeah take me some animals too probably some recreational drugs for the trip and seeds of several plants to grow food. LOL...ya

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
In this case, there would be no war and no bloodshed.

how could you guarantee this?

and i have to ask.
who is you friend, and why does he/she want to know how to over-throw the world?

Hi! OK, I'm reading...

Here's your first point,

I'm having trouble envision how this would work in practical terms. If there is no central government how can humanity establish a common social system? If there's no central government who enforces and defines the legal system? Who creates the various laws to keep order within society? Are you suggesting a form of Anarchy? As I see it the goal would be to unify earth and bring everyone under the same laws and rules...

This part I wouldn't pretend to be up on. It seems fairly obvious that our government is a mess, and not only that, but everything they seem to touch turns to crap. This is an understatement.

I don't think I could just pop on the board here and proffer a well thought out response, but I will do my best.

First, think about how much you actually rely on government in your day to day activities. You get up, go to work to earn money to pay for your house, food, etc., spend social time at certain locales, and go home.

If you have kids, they go to state run schools. Your groceries come from farms (or wherever), are driven by truck to a grocery store where you purchase them. The only reliance on government in this typical situation is the money that the Federal Reserve prints for you to exchange for food.

What if there were no longer a need for money, and everything we need was provided to us?

This question, actually, the original question, would naturally lead to a discussion on how the government would react, would there be a government, or would it be changed, and if so what form would it take?

I honestly hadn't thought about the mechanics, in too much depth, of a society run without a government.

But I want to look at the possibility that there doesn't need to be a government in order for a society to be successful.

How do third world societies work, and why is what we have so much better than those functioning societies? Now if your first answer is technology, and providing for everyone, then remember we will have that technology - everyone.

You should also take a hard look at not only the failings of our government - and other governments (although I'm not saying there aren't successes), but the damage our government has caused, the lies and abuses it has engaged in, etc. We are not much happier or better off than many societies without government

This event would be a chance to change all of that. Wipe the slate clean.

So given that, one of the questions is, Do we need government? What would society's makeup be without it?

This is a very freeing thought - and the fact that it could be a possibility is a powerful elixir. I don't mean to oversimplify the whole thing, but I would like to continue a dialogue on this aspect, as well as others, because questioning the need for a government itself is a dangerous practice to some people...

To me it's endlessly stimulating. lol Not only that, it could be a reality...

Your next point is on the military,

The only military you'd need would be to control the masses and quell any rebellions that surely would take place, at least early on in this revolution. However, eventually I'd like to get wrid of most of the military. With there being no wars between nations, you have a very limited use for a military force.

There are a billion ships, so these ships could oversee things everywhere.

Who knows how, or if the military could be utilized during this time. I would suggest that police and fire departments could work in tandem in each society to quell flare ups.

I would be lying if I said I knew how people would react...But I would say as soon as things are made clear, undeniably clear, that everyone is safe and there is a mission here, then getting through to people beyond that would be easier...

You had an interesting point,

I also read that someone said that 'everyone should be allowed to believe in what they wish'. In theory it sounds great, however there are several practical problems. First of all, what do you do when certain groups believe they are the chosen people of God or that unless the rest of the world converts and follows their own beliefs, we're all going to hell.

I don't understand that "people should be able to believe what they want to" to the exclusion of reality. Reality is cement is hard, the sun shines half the day, and other beings share this universe.

I also read somewhere that honoring "free will" means not imposing your beliefs on others.

And this included, somehow, the idea of an alien race forcing disclosure, because they would supposedly be "interfering" with another race...I've read
that, and maybe it's true, but it won't matter in our case.

I can respect that. This isn't a forcing of beliefs, however. It is a revelation of what exists and has existed for centuries - longer.

Also, this is why the "human" factor is important in this landing. "We" are disclosing the truth to "ourselves". Not interfering there. It is other human beings disclosing the truth to other human beings of our own origins, and our place in the universe. I love that part!

To be continued...

Cont'd from previous post...

You also said,

Additionally, those religious families that are "allowed to believe in whatever they wish", who protects their children? Who ensures that their children, whom will be growing up under their influence will be able to make a rational choice in terms of believing or not believing in their parents religion. By brain washing the child from an early age, the child will be trapped in their parents delusion, this is a crime in its self, in my honest opinion.

Parents as well will be held accountable in the face of the truth. This would only be a means of delivering the unfettered, untainted truth to everyone on this planet that we are not only not alone, but we are invited to actively take part in the universe around us.

The message is not "Jehovah was a fake" or what have you. It wouldn't be like that.

Other intelligent species have been around as long as we have and longer. We are swimming in evidence of this. If someone refuses to see what's in front of their face, including the children who are raised with certain beliefs, then that is their choice.

However, living in this changed reality won't allow them to live in darkness too long. That's impossible.

You expanded on that idea,

People should not be allowed to believe in whatever they choose, unless they are completely alone and do not affect anyone else with their stupidity. My points is that stupid religions should not be accepted!

Beliefs and actions are two different things. If someone harms someone else, they will be accountable. If someone speaks to someone else in the hopes of persuading that other person to share their beliefs, then they need the cooperation of the second individual.

If a parent raises a child with a certain belief, that child will grow to experience the falseness of this belief for him, or herself, period. Children are pretty smart, and with a free and open society they will be much the better for it...

On a governing body, or ruling elite,

Also, when I envisioned a ruling elite of the most intelligent human beings in the world, I must point out that they are not exclusive. Some sort of system would have to be put in place to allow these members to be replaced out from time to time.

This would be your choice of course, they're your ships - it's your future...hehe

I really like the topic of replacing government, and how society would run without a government.

You can't just get rid of our government right now - of course, if you could think of a good back up plan maybe you could, and maybe we will come up with some good ideas here - but I think it MUST be done in some form when your landing comes to pass...

This landing is the beginning of a new era here on Earth. It would be a chance to remove what's wrong with our social structure, and vastly improve on what's right - as well as adding a hell of a lot more!

Finally,

Additionally, the ruling elite would also live under one very specific law: The standard of living should for these individuals never exceed the people that are worst off in society in general. So basically they'd be among the poorest members of society. If they improve the living conditions for the poorest members of society they'd ultimately improve their own. This way the "poor" or the "less fortunate" would never be left behind.

I would like to think that with this event comes an abolishment of poverty, a sense of community, respect and compassion for our fellow man - that we can exercise, and a return of power from the cruel and inhumane elite back into the hands of the people of this planet.

This, I admit, is a very quixotic vision, but we can always hope...

Please keep 'em coming!

Thank you, Vlad, for your response!! Great response!!

I may be taking a break for dinner, but will be back in a bit...

Thank you, everyone!!

Jack, you said,

With regards to a religion, I would probably use my fleet of space craft to convince people to abandon religion. With an introduction into a wider galactic society, I think people will no longer need the feeling of security a deity gives. The realisation that we are not alone in this huge empty vastness, will be a huge comfort to everyone. And feeling secure in themselves, the idea of a deity controlling and watching over us would slowly fade away.

I don't know how much a revelation such as this will remove the idea of a deity. However, I wonder if the universe had a creator per se, or if it is more than that...I think this will deepen religions possibly.

The question you may be posing is, "Can religion co-exist with the reality of intelligent non-human beings not from this planet?" Something like that...

But it seems it's becoming more and more OK to say that the same creator that made us, also made our neighbors...

Our sense of religion may just become more crystallized; a stronger sense, or a real recognition that there is a divine spark in each of us that cannot be destroyed, and is free to travel throughout the vast reaches of space...

I don't totally know though...We'll have to ask someone who's truly religious to know...

Very, very good point. This will be answered for sure when you land.

Thank you, Jack!

What would you think if your central governing body was actually a number of separate governing bodies?

What if decisions concerning our society(ies) were made by separate groups, but not like our current government?

Just something to think about...I read something similar before and would like to explore the idea of changing the structure, and consolidation of power, etc...

antmax21, you'd be free to do whatever you wanted basically. Experiment with drugs, travel, etc.

But I'll bet when you start flying around that drugs will be the furthest from your mind...

Thank you for your input! If you want to add more please feel free!

Peace!

JSR, you asked,

How could you guarantee this [i.e., no war or bloodshed]?

This would not, at least, be perpetrated by you or your spacecraft. If someone on the ground decides to do this, I can't immediately see a way to stop that.

It's a very good point and I think it should be explored. How people respond, from all sectors, should be investigated. I'm serious...

You also asked,

who is you friend, and why does he/she want to know how to over-throw the world?

His name is Renato. I've known him for a month or more. He's had a very peculiar life, and is a very outspoken, but sincere and genuine person.

He asked me to post this question and I'm glad I did. He is sincere in seeing what everyone's thoughts are on a mass landing - by ET craft piloted by human beings.

I feel that question, as well as what the ramifications are, is a very fascinating topic, and could actually be relevant at some point.

This is not a plug, and Renato is not from outer space.

Although he has had sighting events, believes he's had an abduction that lasted over six days, which his family, friends, and the NY Police Dept. have verified, has memories of some very out there stuff that happened during this abduction, and has had paranormal experiences all his life.

For this and more I felt compelled to post the question. And it seems I've done so for good reason.

Feel free to u2u me if you have any questions about him. I'd be happy to hook you up - and so would he believe it or not.

I'll be back on soon. Gotta eat...

Thank you!!!

[edit on 17-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

Ya I would love to fly by as a supernova is happening that would be an exquisite site. Perhaps see pluto and how cold it is. I know one thing if I had one craft I'd travel the depths of the Universe.

There will never be a Utopia man is born with Original Sin but we can dream can't we? A peaceful society where there is no currency and no need for material objects is cutting close. Just food, shelter, and fun...whatever you think fun is, that is your prerogative.

The main problem is that even if all of the universe was unified under one pantheon or one god, there would still be trouble.
Some worshippers would believe destruction is the way to serve him/it, others would think peace. Some would think one planet is the correct place of worship, others would think a certain star was.

Interpretation of religion is just as destructive as the topic itself. Military might, although highly destructive and abhorrent, is the only way to unite religions. Give them all something to hate, and hope their combined hatred of something would prove stronger than their loathing of each other.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
The question is, "If you had a fleet of a billion or more (saucer or similar ET) craft, how would you change the present earth?"

Well, I would probably need a billion or more parking places, so I might consider turning Earth into a parking lot.

**Well that was my first smart butt response that came to mind.

Actually i need to read throught the entire thread to get caught up, and then i'll post a better, more informed response.

Although i have a descent response in mind, i don't want to say something that has already been said.

I like the thread idea, btw.

thanks,
john

i would do the right thing......sell them
and keep a couple of millions for me or...i would get an "army" and invade the US, u know...destroy bu** and stuff.
jejejejej naah just kidding i would probably sell them as i say before

[edit on 17/1/07 by vertexc]

[edit on 17/1/07 by vertexc]

I wanted to respond to this quote,

There will never be a Utopia man is born with Original Sin but we can dream can't we?

This is a belief you hold; although, this is not a belief you were born with.

You are free to believe this, or anything else you want. When you are living in a utopia you may be surprised though...I hope it's soon...hehe

Beliefs are powerful things. They're kind of like politicians, who take an office without having proved themselves to their constituency.

Then when that politician is caught embezzling money, the people who voted him in receive a very rude wake up call...Sometimes beliefs are the same way...

Be careful what you put into your head, because some of it is very hard to get out...

I think what you say (below) is shared by every person on this planet,

A peaceful society where there is no currency and no need for material objects is cutting close. Just food, shelter, and fun...whatever you think fun is, that is your prerogative.

Food, shelter, knowledge, friendship, travel, magic, religion, music - anything you can think of, free in abundance to everyone who wants it.

Thanks, antmax21! I hope your beliefs are challenged soon...

You said that religion would be a problem even in space,

Some worshippers would believe destruction is the way to serve him/it, others would think peace. Some would think one planet is the correct place of worship, others would think a certain star was.

If you put a human being on a ship the size of Texas and fly him to several civilizations throughout our galaxy, where he, or she is with a small group of people witnessing the marvels of this universe, how religiously self-righteous do you think these people would get?

I think their notions of religion would either be tossed out the window, or they would reveal "true" religion to these people and bring them to their knees.

True religion is not a disputation of the facts, but a visceral and heart-wrenching connection with the divine all around you, and this does not engender feelings of anger, bitterness and hatred.

Instead it strips you bare and generates more compassion than you would know what to do with. It's that spark inside of every one of us glowing so brightly that it burns everything trivial away - everything inside and outside of us.

I've never traveled "out there" that I can remember, but many sights on this planet, both of man and nature, have evoked that in me - evoked gratitude, appreciation, connection and compassion. So I can guess what multiplying that sensation would do to someone "up there".

I'm not discounting that there are currently religious zealots, or just mentally unstable people. There is a place for everyone, including these two, but I think religion won't be the source of strife you may see it as now.

What these people want, as I see it - the fundamentalists, Jihadists, etc. - is not for other people to believe what they believe, but they want a separation from these other groups, they want land, and they want non-interference.

I don't see a reason why these things can't be granted - but I can only be fairly glib, because I don't have a deep understanding of the centuries-long battle between these (Middle Eastern) groups.

However, much, much more is possible if you enter "assistance" into the picture. Otherwise, yes, this situation could continue for another thousand years.

Your points are valid. There are people who just want to outright harm others as well. How are these individuals dealt with? This is another question...

[edit on 17-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

[edit on 17-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]