Project Islam

Judaism is Zionism, there is no difference.

That's what they want us to believe.

You dont even know where Judaism stops and christianity begins!

Exoterically, they are different; Esoterically, the same.

If those rabbis are jews than hitler is a buddhist!

Actually, A. Hitler was a Black-Magician "Buddhist" of the Dugpa/Drukpa clan:


www.abovetopsecret.com...




And this:

Alexander Berzin(translator of H.H. the Dalai Lama) on A. Hitler and Tibetan Buddhism




[edit on 17-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
What do you think the bible is or any holy book for that matter? Its a wash with text that has been added/edited/deleted by man.... it is no where near to perfection to the word of God.

Many of the posts here at ATS I've participated in explain this(we could discuss in them as opposed to this thread).

The Biblical texts are still full of Initiatic Wisdom even though many things have been altered.

God loves ALL.... and dont think for a minute that you are any more favorite to god for believing in Jesus than some1 who is not.

I'm sure there are many who Master Aberamentho(Yehoshua/Jesus) would greet in Heaven with open arms, who don't even "believe in Jesus"; while many "Christian" fanatics may even have to pay tremendous karma in the Avitchi Hells for rejecting the true message of Master Jesus.






Regards




[edit on 18-1-2007 by Tamahu]

When does your rant stop ?? Why did it begin ? Who cares ??

Originally posted by IAF101
When does your rant stop ?? Why did it begin ? Who cares ??

I dont consider this positive input to the tread... I believe you started this tread... are you trying to end it as well?

Originally posted by IAF101
I will not allude to anything lest I be accused of "sexing things up".
....
PS: This is not mean to incite nor provoke lest it be viewed as such.

If "sufism" is your understanding of Islam then you need to lay off the pipe! If dancing round in circles and singing their hyms was their jihad then I would go to johad with them.

If "dancing round in circles and singing hymns" is your idea of sufism, then, my friend, YOU need to lay off the pipe

There is not "one" terrorist who is a moslem, there are thousands maybe even millions of potential terrorists. Everywhere there are moslems there is terrorism or terrorist connections, that is a fact. Look at Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afganistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Thailand, etc etc .

You are a scary, scary, person. Are you seriously saying that every muslim is a potential terrorist? That you should get the first punch in if you can? Y'know, I can see a radical muslim Imam saying something like that about the non-muslims.

I apologise if any offense is taken, but you really should research things out. When it comes to learning about Islam, what radical Imams were supposed to have said in documentaries vs. the Quran, I'd go with the Quran. Now if you want to talk about what Radical Imams are planning, I'd go with the documentary.
To jumpstart your investigation, I invite you to find out a few things:

-The meaning of "Kafr"/"Kaffir"
-The meaning of Jihad
-Are muslims supposed to kill non-muslims
-Do you get 72/27/Any amount of virgins by killing non-muslims
-Whether muslims can live in a non-muslim nation
-What 'choices' a muslim can give a non-muslim

Good luck! I hope your responses to this post are more than "Who cares??"

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY

Originally posted by IAF101
When does your rant stop ?? Why did it begin ? Who cares ??

I dont consider this positive input to the tread... I believe you started this tread... are you trying to end it as well?

I am commenting on the continual diagression from the documentary and the issue to some White lodge/black lodge and other nonsense. I dont want to go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with radical islam and terrorist imams.

Originally posted by babloyi

If "dancing round in circles and singing hymns" is your idea of sufism, then, my friend, YOU need to lay off the pipe

So you are saying that even that Dervish is dangerous to us 'Kaffirs' ?? Some sort of psychological tactic or an attempt at mass hypnosis ?

You are a scary, scary, person. Are you seriously saying that every muslim is a potential terrorist? That you should get the first punch in if you can? Y'know, I can see a radical muslim Imam saying something like that about the non-muslims.

You are extremely naive if you cannot understand what I am saying. With more than a billion moslems does it not make it possible to have a million or so potential terrorists ??
Also is it not true that there is terrorism in all these countries ? There are moslem terrorists in both islamic and non-islamic countries; different excuses to kill us 'kaffirs'.
Also if you want to know what "moderate" and peacfull imams preach in the mosques than you can surely go throught the documentary. It clearly describes the hypocrisy and the blatant lies that these imams and the moslem community put forth about their intention towards peace and democracy in general and the utter contempt and hate they have for all that is not islamic.

I apologise if any offense is taken, but you really should research things out. When it comes to learning about Islam, what radical Imams were supposed to have said in documentaries vs. the Quran, I'd go with the Quran. Now if you want to talk about what Radical Imams are planning, I'd go with the documentary.

Seriously, do you think I dont know about islam or what is written in the quran ? I have been to Saudi Arabia and even to mecca many times. I have read the quran and I can tell you these radical imams only preach it like it is.
If you want me to quote you verses where it says to kill us "kaffirs" I would be more than willing to post the manuscript . The thing is if there is no hate and violence in the religion than it only follows that these imams cannot preach this hate and extreemism without validating themselves through the quran. Also even though you want me to interpret "al Jihad" as some spiritual struggle the basic meaning is " war against the enemies of allah " and that would be the physical war. To give up ones life for allah is seen as martydom, automatic pass to heaven and 72 virgins gauranteed. Also the choices I have described are exactly what the imams say and I have read them in the quran. Unless you are saying that the quran is a false document and doesnt really represent the word of Allah then I am afraid that like you I must back the quran in validating the extreemists imams.

Originally posted by IAF101
I am commenting on the continual diagression from the documentary and the issue to some White lodge/black lodge and other nonsense. I dont want to go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with radical islam and terrorist imams.

Yes it does.

Because the Black Lodge is responsible for both fanatical "Muslim" extremists, and Zionism.

(And some Muslims are just defending themselves from the Zionists the only way they can; and can therefore not be considered fanatical)


I was saying that Zionism is more dangerous however.


A free Tibet(which was taken over by materialistic Marxist(a Zionist creation)-influenced Communism) and a free Palestine(which was taken over by Zionists, obviously) and the dissolving of the un-Constitutional Federal Reserve(which is run by international Zionist bankers) is what we want to see.





[edit on 19-1-2007 by Tamahu]

I dont know if you are a Kafir IAF101, only Allah knows who is a Kafir and who is not...

Prophet Muhammad (Salalaho alehe wasalam) has warned us that if a person calls another KAFIR and the person called that is not one, then the individual who made the accusation is a KAFIR.

Regarding to what you said about beating women, great Allah says in the Kur'an, Chapter 4 "An-Nisa" (Women) :

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.

Regarding to that what you said about killing Kafirs because their religion is not Islam,great Allah says in the Kur'an,Chapter 109 "Al-Kafiroon" (The Disbelievers):

Say: To you be your Way, and to me mine.

(In this context, Way means your spiritual way, your religion.)

So you see, He does not tell muslims to kill Kafirs, but he orders us to accept their religion because that is their choice,but they will be punished with eternal Hell when the End of the days comes, if they don't repent and accept Allah as the only God...



[edit on 19-1-2007 by alfa_mental]

Greetings alfa_mental


The Qur'an, like all other works of Occult Science, is not to be taken literally on every level.


(Here's some good explanations as to why:

www.gnosticteachings.org...

amirfatir.tripod.com... )



Examples:

www.gnosticteachings.org...
amirfatir.tripod.com...

..."Punishment" symbolizes self-imposed austerities (like fasting or other deprivations) for failing to rule over the lower parts of being. This is also what the Quran means by beating your wife if she acts in a lewd manner. The "wife" symbolizes the emotional part of the self.

"Four wives" symbolize mastery of the four magical elements: earth, air, water and fire...

Qur'an:

"And when those(egos) who disbelieved devised plans against thee that they might confine thee or slay thee or drive thee away- and they devised plans and Allah, too, had arranged a plan; and Allah is the best of planners." - Al-Anfal 30

In other words, the ego is plural.

Each klesha or defect(such as lust, hatred, pride, greed, etc.) are each like an evil personality in themselves.

So the Buddhist annihilation of the multiple "I", is the At-One-Ment or Tauid/Tawid with Allah(Buddha is recognized as a Prophet of Allah by some Muslims, especially Sufis), and comes with the annihilation of the egos or unbelievers that we must kill(or the demons caste out of Mary by Jesus, the "my name is Legion" of the Christian Injil, the Red Demons of Set of the Pert Em Heru, etc.).






Regards




[edit on 19-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by IAF101
So you are saying that even that Dervish is dangerous to us 'Kaffirs' ?? Some sort of psychological tactic or an attempt at mass hypnosis ?

Yes, because everything those damn muslims do is some insidious trick to kill "kaffirs".

Originally posted by IAF101
You are extremely naive if you cannot understand what I am saying. With more than a billion moslems does it not make it possible to have a million or so potential terrorists ??
Also is it not true that there is terrorism in all these countries ? There are moslem terrorists in both islamic and non-islamic countries; different excuses to kill us 'kaffirs'.

There are ...I don't know...2 billion Christians in this world? Does that not make it possible to have a million or so potential terrorists? What has that got to do with anything. You say only Muslims are terrorists? You know about all the problems between Tamils and Sinhalese in Sri Lanka?

Originally posted by IAF101
Also if you want to know what "moderate" and peacfull imams preach in the mosques than you can surely go throught the documentary. It clearly describes the hypocrisy and the blatant lies that these imams and the moslem community put forth about their intention towards peace and democracy in general and the utter contempt and hate they have for all that is not islamic.

You mention this documentary. Me not living in the UK, I don't think I will get much of a chance to watch it, but I'll take your word for it. By the by, what has this got to do with the Quran or Islam?

Originally posted by IAF101
The thing is if there is no hate and violence in the religion than it only follows that these imams cannot preach this hate and extreemism without validating themselves through the quran.

Really? Despite vehement denial from current-day Christians that the Crusades had nothing to do with Christianity, Thousands upon thousands of devout Christians hated, killed, made war, died, and were honoured.

Originally posted by IAF101
Also even though you want me to interpret "al Jihad" as some spiritual struggle the basic meaning is " war against the enemies of allah " and that would be the physical war. To give up ones life for allah is seen as martydom, automatic pass to heaven and 72 virgins gauranteed.

See? That is what I mean by you not knowing what you say. You know those jokes where foriegn person says a 50 line sentence in a movie and the subtitled translation comes out 'hello'? How can Jihad mean 'war against the enemies of Allah'? It means exactly what it means= struggling or striving. Sure, in the Quran it has a religious significance, but it definitely doesn't have to involve anyone else. Striving in the path of God.
To give up ones life for Allah is seen as matyrdom, sure, but I don't see where killing "kaffirs" (as you mentioned) gets involved. You can die on your way to school (striving in the path of Alllah) and become a martyr. By the way, can you please tell me where in the Quran you got this interesting 72 virgins? I can't find it.

Originally posted by alfa_mental
Prophet Muhammad (Salalaho alehe wasalam) has warned us that if a person calls another KAFIR and the person called that is not one, then the individual who made the accusation is a KAFIR.

This is very interesting. I wasn't aware of this before. So IAF101 being the first to bring up the word "kaffir" in this discussion (and using it on himself), that makes him...what? I thought he was a Christian

Out of curiosity, IAF, how is it that you've been to Makkah, when non-muslims are not allowed there?

[edit on 20-1-2007 by babloyi]

About this(since it's too late to edit):

Originally posted by Tamahu
In Aramaic(Jesus' language) the name for God is Alaha.

ALAHA, ALLAH, ALIM, ELOHIM and Yod-He-Vau-He are all from AELOHIM, the Seity.

I meant to spell one of the names of God as ALEIM, not "ALIM".

Originally posted by alfa_mental
I dont know if you are a Kafir IAF101, only Allah knows who is a Kafir and who is not...
....
Regarding to what you said about beating women, great Allah says in the Kur'an, Chapter 4 "An-Nisa" (Women) :

I didnt say any of this on my own. I am merely quoting from the documentary. These are the imams who preach about the Quran in the mosques. Imams who have been taught in Saudi Arabia, where they speak the language of the prophet, the land of the two holy mosques. This is what they say, you can go to youtube and search for "dispatchers : Undercover Mosques" and hear it for yourself.

Regarding to that what you said about killing Kafirs because their religion is not Islam,great Allah says in the Kur'an,Chapter 109 "Al-Kafiroon" (The Disbelievers):

Well even I know something about the quran to say this is not true. If you read Taubah (chapter 9) you can see that it is written clearly how to wage war against the non-believers (Kaffirs).

So you see, He does not tell muslims to kill Kafirs, but he orders us to accept their religion because that is their choice,but they will be punished with eternal Hell when the End of the days comes, if they don't repent and accept Allah as the only God...

How do you explain this quote:

Fight them [ O Believers!] and God will punish them with your hands and humiliate them and help you to victory over them. (9:14)

Or this ?

Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.) Taubah 29

Originally posted by babloyi
Yes, because everything those damn muslims do is some insidious trick to kill "kaffirs".

Your words not mine!

Originally posted by babloyi
There are ...I don't know...2 billion Christians in this world? Does that not make it possible to have a million or so potential terrorists? What has that got to do with anything. You say only Muslims are terrorists? You know about all the problems between Tamils and Sinhalese in Sri Lanka?

I never said only moslems were terrorists. I said there is islamic terrorism in every country the moslems live in. Also even if you use statistics you can easily deduce from the populations in the Arab world, the number of potential terrorists that are likely in any moslem population. Instead of the Arab world, you could even use Britain as a sample and extrapolate.
Using a similar approach you would find that there are nowhere close to a million plus potential terrorist amongst the entire christian population of the world.

Also when you talk about the Tamils in Sri Lanka, you must know that these people dont fight in the name of their religion. They fight in the name of a separate ethnicity. These Tamil fighters dont kill and maime people solely driven by their religious beliefs. If that were the case then you would be right in comparing the two types of terrorism. Moreover the Tamil fighters are better organised than islamic terrorists. They follow most of the rules of war, like uniforms, carrying arms openly, chain of command etc, unlike people dressed as civilians sniping soldiers protecting civilians. The difference between these two forms is clear as day. It would be naive not to make out the difference.

Originally posted by babloyi
You mention this documentary. Me not living in the UK, I don't think I will get much of a chance to watch it, but I'll take your word for it. By the by, what has this got to do with the Quran or Islam?

Do not worry, the miracle that is the internet allows people from across the world to access information from around the world at a click of a button. Just go to youtube.com and search for "Dispatcher: Undercover mosques" ( the original links I put up dont work any longer! )

As for what does this got to do with Quran or Islam, well almost everything. There imams claim that they are spreading the word of Quran, they claim these are centers of islamic faith and they use moslem men and children and indoctrinate them to kill us "kaffirs" and subjugate women. These people are propagating a misogynist and hatefilled world view that has no place in western and indeed democractic society. This is the islam they preach and this is the islam that is being followed. Also they seek to validate themselves by quoting scriputre from the quran. If this doesnt involve islam then I cant see what does ????
To understand properly the implications of these imams you need to watch the documentary. Please follow the directions I mentioned above to do so.

Originally posted by babloyi
Really? Despite vehement denial from current-day Christians that the Crusades had nothing to do with Christianity, Thousands upon thousands of devout Christians hated, killed, made war, died, and were honoured.

See this is again a false contrast. The Crusades were carried out by the order of the "Pope". It was carried out as divine revelations by the pope on how the christian people should function. Just like the brutality unleashed under Abu Bakar and the numerous other caliphs their armies that slaughtered thousands of the so-called infidels.
What we have in the present is people who claim that they are doing the work of allah by becomming a mujahid and carrying out jihad against the 'enemy of islam' . To compare this you would have to compare it to people preaching the bible and asking their followers to kill and carry out holywar against non-Christians in the name of god. That is simply not tolerated in christianity. But apparently the same is not true in Islam where Wahhabi imams and ullema are provided santuary by these "moderate" moslems to spread their message of supermacist, mysogynist, unbridled hatered. Tell me you can see the distinction in that!

Originally posted by babloyiHow can Jihad mean 'war against the enemies of Allah'? It means exactly what it means= struggling or striving. Sure, in the Quran it has a religious significance, but it definitely doesn't have to involve anyone else. Striving in the path of God.

Well if your imams preach jihad as "war against the enemies of allah" I wouldnt question them as I would imagine that they know what they are talking about. Also with so many people so eager to become jihadis it would imply that that is how jihad is interpreted, unless you say the quran is subject to some mis-representation as to what the word of allah is ?
Also the word jihad has been given a new age meaning of struggle/spiritual striving. But that meaning doesnt exsist in Arabic literature originally. From all the documents left by the caliphs of old have always equated jihad to "holy war" quite like the crusades. Though I am sure the word jihad isnt used in the same sense as the english word "crusade" for everyday tedium .

Originally posted by babloyi
To give up ones life for Allah is seen as matyrdom, sure, but I don't see where killing "kaffirs" (as you mentioned) gets involved. You can die on your way to school (striving in the path of Alllah) and become a martyr. By the way, can you please tell me where in the Quran you got this interesting 72 virgins? I can't find it.

Well maybe you would like to take a read of this link written by Abu Haithem Al-Hijazee and explain if his quotes are either wrong or those lines arent in the quran. Also there is a good discussion on dealing with "kaffirs" here.
The quran explains quite clearly what it is to die for allah. I dont think there is a single mention of dying on the way to school in the quran or any martyr status awarded for that !?

As for the virgins, the quran does talk about virgins but they dont specify the number. The number however is specified in one of the hadiths. Anyway these are the quotes :

“They [true believers] will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches” (Sura 37:48).

“The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed).” (Al Bukhari vol. 1:35.)

Originally posted by babloyi
So IAF101 being the first to bring up the word "kaffir" in this discussion (and using it on himself), that makes him...what? I thought he was a Christian

Well the first ones to bring up the word would be your own imams where I quoted them saying so. Also I always refered to myself using it sarcastically. Nonetheless I still deny Allah and his messenger, so I am sure I would be "awarded" the title nonetheless by the gracious imams!

Out of curiosity, IAF, how is it that you've been to Makkah, when non-muslims are not allowed there?

Regular non-moslems are not allowed inside the city of mekka but when Saddam Hussein is pounding the holy land with Scuds and Saudi Royal family wants to go pray they dont trust their own fellow moslems too much for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with the 1971 raid of the mosque by the wahhabis ??
Anyway dont worry, I havent defiled the "holy land" completely. We werent allowed inside the mosque complex!

Originally posted by IAF101
I never said only moslems were terrorists. I said there is islamic terrorism in every country the moslems live in. Also even if you use statistics you can easily deduce from the populations in the Arab world, the number of potential terrorists that are likely in any moslem population. Instead of the Arab world, you could even use Britain as a sample and extrapolate.
Using a similar approach you would find that there are nowhere close to a million plus potential terrorist amongst the entire christian population of the world.

No, I am sorry, I cannot. To my ears, you are still saying that by some weird quirk of delusion, you are condemning millions of people to being "potential terrorists". I can only imagine what the next step would be. I doubt very much that there is any country in the world that doesn't have terrorists of some sort. It would probably have to be an insanely utopian country to have a smaller ratio of terrorists to population than any other country (I don't know...Sweden?)

Originally posted by IAF101
This is the islam they preach and this is the islam that is being followed. Also they seek to validate themselves by quoting scriputre from the quran. If this doesnt involve islam then I cant see what does ????

It involves ignorance. I have occasionally been to some of these mosques. I rarely hear any quranic quoting, or they quote it they leave out very important parts.

Originally posted by IAF101
To compare this you would have to compare it to people preaching the bible and asking their followers to kill and carry out holywar against non-Christians in the name of god. That is simply not tolerated in christianity. But apparently the same is not true in Islam where Wahhabi imams and ullema are provided santuary by these "moderate" moslems to spread their message of supermacist, mysogynist, unbridled hatered. Tell me you can see the distinction in that!

You mean like when Priests were using the Bible to sanction slavery, and telling people they need to go out and fight for their right? When they tried crushing the idea of gender equality by explaining how Eve led humanity to sin, and how women should not speak out in Church. Words (scriptural or not), can be twisted very easily. Do you blame the words for that, or the ignorance of people?
I still do not agree that what Imam says=What Islam says.

Originally posted by IAF101
Well if your imams preach jihad as "war against the enemies of allah" I wouldnt question them as I would imagine that they know what they are talking about. Also with so many people so eager to become jihadis it would imply that that is how jihad is interpreted, unless you say the quran is subject to some mis-representation as to what the word of allah is ?
Also the word jihad has been given a new age meaning of struggle/spiritual striving. But that meaning doesnt exsist in Arabic literature originally. From all the documents left by the caliphs of old have always equated jihad to "holy war" quite like the crusades. Though I am sure the word jihad isnt used in the same sense as the english word "crusade" for everyday tedium.

No, I am sorry, you are mistaken again. There are numerous hadith that mention the Prophet saying that the most praiseworthy of Jihads is the inner jihad. Nothing the slightest "New-agey" about that. You seem to be an expert on ancient Arabic literature, but you seem to have missed the bit where I said that the translation of "Jihad" into English would be something along the lines of struggling, or striving.


Well maybe you would like to take a read of this link written by Abu Haithem Al-Hijazee and explain if his quotes are either wrong or those lines arent in the quran. Also there is a good discussion on dealing with "kaffirs" here.
The quran explains quite clearly what it is to die for allah. I dont think there is a single mention of dying on the way to school in the quran or any martyr status awarded for that !?

I'm not saying that muslims are not supposed to fight. I'm saying that to automatically say that all muslims must kill "kaffirs" and that there are only 3 choices to give a "kaffir" is not true. Aside from it being false that killing a "kaffir" will get you a place in heaven, there are more ways of becoming a martyr than dying in war. Once again, Jihad does not necessarily equal war. There are very specific conditions that apply for when fighting is permissible, and sorry, the verse you quoted does not apply, being about the period directly after Makkah was conquered (as can be seen from reading it).

Originally posted by Tamahu

Just wanted to at least warn people.


The biggest world-problem we face is not the fabricated "Islam VS the West" lies that the Zionists feed us via the media and other propaganda.

And the warning was much appreciated as were your links.
Very well said Tamahu.

I didn't see anything "anti-semitic" in your words, and I (along with quite a few Jews and Rabbis) know that there is a difference between Judaism and Zionism. Those that choose to admit this and are of the Jewish faith are usually attacked for it. This whole hoaxed up mess that's currently going on in the middle-east is pathetic and it's going to have some very terrible consequences for us all.

First we go after Osama, then we switch gears and put more focus on Saddam...claiming he is the REAL threat to America (based on faulty info and lack of common sense), now they say it's actually Iran that's been fanning the flames of the insurgency WE created by destabilizing Iraq.

Good God.

All of this just proves religious radicals are a threat to everyone.
Whether they wear cowboy hats or turbans.