Forced Disclosure - Project 2.0

Originally posted by Miah

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
how many near identical thread do we need ?

now you are citing " media coverage " as an alledged sheild against harm when you break the law .

PS - it is not BTW

. kent state , bloody sunday [ ulster ] etc all occured under the media " spotlight "

but to address your point :

how are you going to get your 10000 strong " mob " and the media to the A51 perimeter ???

without the advaned planning / orgaisation , clarion calls etc required ?

do you really think your planning will be immune from scrutiny / infiltration ???????????

once tipped off - the police / security services can deflect / divert and disperse your " forces " before they ever get to the a51 fence

you will be almost garunteed to walk into a " trap "

Great post, thanks so much for sharing it.

you are welcome ............ i mean that

< SNIP >

nice strawman , is that how you address all resonses to people who point out valid flaws in you illconveived " plans " ?

After You

Originally posted by Miah
Imagine hundreds of people holding picket signs marching accross the border signs at Area 51!

Perhaps you would like to be the first across?

I pass through Rachel now and then, and if you stop in at the Little A'Le'Inn they can tell you all sorts of stories about what happens when people go past the signs.

They always end up the same: the sheriff ends up having to come pick them up and hold them in jail, and yes, they do prosecute -- and impound your car.

Whatever your opinions may be about disclosure, I strongly recommend spending your time more productively than by recommending a potentially dangerous mass assault on a restricted military reservation.

The problem with trying to use force to achieve disclosure is that it won't work -- unless you have enough force to overwhelm base security, in which case you may consider yourself an enemy of the United States, which comes with its own headaches.

I think a better strategy is to encourage more people to take a rational look at the question of disclosure rather than pushing it even farther into the fringes.

Especially considering the fact that marginalizing disclosure is precisely what a government covering all this up would love for us to do, since making disclosure a "loony tunes" topic discourages people from talking about it altogether.

So if you really believe this is a good idea, you might want to consider whose interests would actually be served by this.

Hint: Definitely not the interests of full disclosure. :shk:

And yes, this has come up before.

Approximatly 30 people were killed yesterday in what appears to be an attempt by domestic terrorists to overrun a top-secret military installation. Exact numbers were difficult to confirm due to military restrictions.
At approx. 7am yesterday, about 500 people attempted to invade a restricted military installation around the area of Groom Lake. Security personnel using sophistacted sensors, detected them before they were in visual range, and moved to intercept them. After the terrorists repeatedly ignored orders to stop as well as several warning shots, security personell at the base were forced to open fire on the mob, killing about 30 people and wounding about 120. The rest surrendered and are currently being transported to a military instalation in Cuba for questioning.
The domestic terrorists were traced back to an internet discussion forum, AboveTopSecret, where it was discovered that site was used to recuit people into this terrorist organization. The site has been shut down and a complete list of its members was givin to military officials. When the White House learned of this fact, the President immediatly signed into law an emergency order that places huge restrictions and heavy regulations on the internet.
Many high-level govt officials are arguing that this is one more reason we need warrentless searches and heavier government oversight on the civilian population.

I posted this in another thread but I think it fits here too.....


EDIT------

I had no idea this was started by the same person as the other thread. This is the same exact thread as that one is. Please close one of them.



[edit on 16-1-2007 by Tiloke]

CLICK HERE TO GET UP TO DATE....

Originally posted by Miah

You conveniently avoided the question twice now; Was the Disclosure Project a waste of time?

You know that everyone here respects what it tried to do, and the people who testified for in it. No way do you plan to deny that. But you will try to to shoot down another attempt?
You go ahead and continue to downplay what is being discussed here (BBQers) like some government agent. We can see right through you.

The rest of the over 1000 people who have looked at this thread know that more protests consisting of thousands of like-minded people is what is needed.

Ok, Now Im mad. How in the HELL can you compare what you are planning to the disclosure project?

I think that the disclosure project was a HUGE step in the right direction , and its a pity that everyone in the country hasn't watched at least one DP video.

Your "plan" to wave a bunch of signs while cooking a steak pales in comparison to the disclosure project. The only reason I can think of for you bringing it up is so mabye some people will think this is big too, but its not. It's a BBQ in the hot sand. Even if you cross the signs. ( For some reason your very vauge on actually crossing them or not)

The disclosure project has hundreds of qualified, educated, and former VIPs from high up that testified about their participation in the extra-terrestreal cover-up. You have a bunch of guys with pick-ups and BBQ's. Its no comparison.

You are still failing to explain HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE MEDIA THERE??? I went ahead and fired off a couple of emails to Faux News and CNN to see if they would be interested in spending a lot of money and manpower to come film you and your fiends waving a sign in front of Area 51... I'll let you know the response.





[edit on 16-1-2007 by Tiloke]

You will just march on and find out that there aren't any aliens there, just a few missiles and planes which are actually quite boring. After this assuming you don't end up dead or in prison you will go back to your hole and claim that the goverment are hiding aliens elsewhere and continue weaving your web of conspiracy. This idea of yours proves the theorem of evolution - survival of the fit. You seem to have a good idea of how to remove yourself and others stupid enough to follow you from the gene pool.

If you did perform this march it would certainly produce some interesting headlines:

"Teenagers attempt to storm military research and development base in search of aliens".

"Teenager shot due to his addiction to X-files".



[edit on 16-1-2007 by superpaul55]

[edit on 16-1-2007 by superpaul55]

Come on now, as another member elegantly put it: " You get called foul for going after the player and not the ball."
Resulting to insults means you have no argument. It what you do when you know you lose.
Lets leave the insults out of it, please.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Tiloke]

Sure guys! If I worked in the media I would turn up to film this. It would make some great Tv. You seriously think your going to storm the installation and find some little green men. Just as a matter of interest, what will you say if you don't find any aliens?

Okay, so say that you do find out that aliens are indeed here and basically can do what ever they want and are planning to take over this planet. Then what? What are you going to do now? What do you think everyone else will do? Panic! It will be anarchy. Which situation would you prefer to live in?

1) You and a small number of people believe that aliens exist, but can't prove it. Everyone is happy living in denial and life continues the way it is until the aliens or government decides its time to come into the open.

2) The government acknowledges the truth and you dance with the satisfaction it gives you. You prance around telling everyone "I told you so" while everyone else is too busy rioting and looting to even care what you have to say. The world is chaos, the aliens are mad and you are happy that the truth is exposed.

If you don't believe this will happen, look what happened with hurricane Katrina. There was looting and chaos even before the storm hit land. This was caused by the public becoming aware of the impending danger before the event. People panic, its human nature. Others see the situation as an excuse to forget all morales and ethics. Multiply this on a global scale and you have anarchy. You might as well throw all chances we have of defending ourselves out the window.

Sure a lot of people will accept the truth and could live with it, but do you honestly believe that everyone will? What about peoples religious beliefs? There will be religious wars, governmental wars, people for the aliens fighting people against the aliens. There will be wars just for the sake of wars. Humans are afraid of not being in control. Even if the aliens were friendly, there will still be fear and distrust of them.

Withholding the truth will save us from ourselves. This is why I believe the government would never allow such knowledge to reach the public. No amount of protesting will force the government to allow this to happen. This information will be provided slowly, over many decades, if at all. Knowing the truth has no benefits for us at the moment, only consequences.

I agree with you totally. These people seem to believe once we are made aware that aliens are trying to take us all out our lives are going to improve. I think they believe we are going to stage some sort of revolt against them or something and free ourselves from the supposed alien tyranny. It would all make well for another crappy Hollywood film, but unfortunately its not reality.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by superpaul55]

hypothetical hypothetical hypothetical hypothetical hypothetical


Any action against a government military installation will be met with offirmative action.

All tech advancements will be protected from enemy states by ALL MEANS NECCESSARY

All sensitive information in relation to national interest will be protected from enemy states by ALL MEANS NECCESSARY

Never ever seriously consider breaking any laws especially ones like this you would pay a very very heavy price

Added there is no true way of succeeding in forcing disclosure this discussion is all hypothetical and should stay that way. Unless you have a death wish or want to spend some time in guantanamo or similar place.

Wow


I mean it...wow


What a topic.

Who would of thought it would be taken like this. Just....wow.

Miah- Relax, brotha. Take a deep breath and just sit back for a minute. I admire your zeal, but, I can't understand your aggression. I brought up the idea of "Forced Disclosure and Tailgate Party" to try and lighten it up a bit. It seemed to be getting too hot, and the Moderators in that thread (and this thread) agreed by posting warnings. Good show Mods, I'm glad you guys are there.
I agree with everyone here who says once you cross that borderline, your life is no longer in your hands. If YOU, Miah, cross that border, I WON'T be right behind you. I won't do that, nor, will I support such a self-destructive idea.

Iggy Ape- I understand your references to Kent State. It's a good example of how 4 bullets can end a 10,000-strong protest. But to this day, we all still sing along with Neil Young. And I agree. If anybody crosses that borderline that doesn't have a will made out, they are fools. Forget about Life Insurance, cause I would classify it as "Suicide".

Tiloke- One question. What do YOU suggest? I understand that you are completely against the ideas that have popped up in this thread and the one that was closed, but, for the life of me, you havn't extended an idea of your own. A LOT of "That won't work", but NO "Ya know what we CAN do though". It's like someone who pokes a guy with a sign around his neck that says "Don't poke me" just to create conflict. I officially recognize your unwillingness to support such a position or act.


Now, since nobody has come up with an alternate plan, other than me throwing in that BBQ idea, I will throw in another idea.

I keep seeing commercials from Truth.org that point out all the things the American People don't know about smoking cigarettes. All the chemicals they add. All the Government crap that we never hear. All the ruthless tactics used by Tobacco Companies to further their agenda.

How about something like that. Commercials ARE mass media and Truth.org gets it out there with shock and...get this...the truth! They aren't marching on Winston-Salem, NC. They are marching on the networks and GIVING out the truth on my pack of smokes.

So maybe a Government-truth.org and clever, informative commercials that point out all the lies in a straight forward, documented proof kind of way?

Is this a better solution guys?

Cuhail

"even if they never actually cross the signs, the media would be all over it thinking it was really going to happen. At worst this would bring to light the mass interest in the subject."

"They just need to think beforehand that they are going to do it."

I thought I made it pretty clear in this thread and the other that they only need to THINK that this mass crowd was going to cross the border to get the media craze, NOT that they need to actually do it.

Miah, WHY WILL THEY THINK SOME ONE IS GOING TO CROSS??? MANY pepole every day go to to those signs. The media IS NOT going to to cover it , period. No matter how much you "believe" they will. You need to give us a definitive answer, ARE YOU PLANNING ON CROSSING THE LINE? You have tippy-toed around that issue wihout anwering it .

Cnn, has not responded to my e-mail , but Fox did.

Due to national security, we will NOT be able to transmit from that location. We also have a policy on not covering suicides on the air. If you have any more questions please dont hesistate to ask.

I left out the "canned" response, "thanks for watching fox ,blah blah blah".

Just admit this is a bad idea. There are other ways to find out the truth. ANY WAY TO "FORCE DISCLOSURE" IS SURE TO BE ILLEGAL.





[edit on 17-1-2007 by Tiloke]

Again, Tiloke, you say YOU CAN'T DO THIS!!!

and again, you have no ideas to offer in it's place.

I think you are becoming background noise, in a sense. A fly buzzing around between people having a conversation. Your not contributing TO the conversation, you're just bashing someone that's got serious motivation and no idea how to direct it.
Let's help him direct it. Please?
Just like I'm trying to positively direct you into a more positive role in this thread.
I'm not telling you to be a "Yes" man. I'm encouraging you to be an "Idea" man.

Please?

C

Marching against anything will not do any good. The media will be more than happy to be used as "muscle" as long as the case is strong. Media lives in a symbioses with whomever needs attention but in order to be taken seriously you need a strong case.

IMHO keep digging for argumentation so strong that it cannot possibly be overlooked is the only way out of this as it stands today. The only alternative i see is if ET decides to reveal themselves regardless of what any government/agency/order thinks, probably not gonna happen in quite awhile...if ever.

So, therefore, I will quote myself.

Originally posted by Cuhail


Now, since nobody has come up with an alternate plan, other than me throwing in that BBQ idea, I will throw in another idea.

I keep seeing commercials from Truth.org that point out all the things the American People don't know about smoking cigarettes. All the chemicals they add. All the Government crap that we never hear. All the ruthless tactics used by Tobacco Companies to further their agenda.

How about something like that. Commercials ARE mass media and Truth.org gets it out there with shock and...get this...the truth! They aren't marching on Winston-Salem, NC. They are marching on the networks and GIVING out the truth on my pack of smokes.

So maybe a Government-truth.org and clever, informative commercials that point out all the lies in a straight forward, documented proof kind of way?

Is this a better solution guys?

Cuhail

Isit? Am I on the right track here? It beats the confrontational aspect.

C

I dont have to have an alternative idea toknow this is a bad one. All you have to do is BE PATIENT. The timeline for true disclosure is a LONG one. To want it right now, regardless of the consequences for the rest of the planet, is extremely selfish.

The "truth" commercials are a bad example. You can't have someone dictating the "truth"to you like that. The tobbacco companies are not allowed to go on TV and fight their claims, so they can say whatever they want, true or not.
You have to figure it out for yourself.Thats why the DP is great , it presents information and lets you decide. Thats where you, me , most of the people on this board are ahead of the curve. But the rest of the planet isn't there yet. Be patient, It might not even happen in our lifetime.

Obviously you already believe there's aliens, why do you need proof?


As a side note, after sending 2 news stations E-mails regarding a protest at Area 51 and recieving a response from one, I have also recieved 2 e-mails from people I dont know, wanting to know about the incursion of Area 51. UH-OH. I e-mailed them back the links to these threads along with an explantion to try to clear things up.


[edit on 17-1-2007 by Tiloke]

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by masqua

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is the courteous discussion and debate of ALL sides of EVERY issue important to humanity. AboveTopSecret will never endorse a specific "side" or position on any issue by allowing those whose agenda needs attention or support to recruit that support on this site PERIOD.

By allowing that sort of acitivity (recruiting or "gathering") we endorse the "recruiter's" position by proxy.

My suggestion is for those who feel the need to recruit people to their cause is to go to any of the thousands of sites who embrace that activity or create a site yourself and get busy.

Springer...

And here we have it - one of the biggest strengths - and biggest weaknesses of the ATS site.

We can have great, enlightening discussions here - but we can never really pick a side - and rally the troops.

This, of course, is exactly why "they" allow popular UFOlogy sites like this one to exist - they are perfect steam valves - that let people feel they are doing something instead of bottling their frustrations with the current world order up.

We really are playing right into their hands quite nicely - but the illusion of freedom is very convincing, eh?

Originally posted by Tiloke
I dont have to have an alternative idea toknow this is a bad one. All you have to do is BE PATIENT. The timeline for true disclosure is a LONG one. To want it right now, regardless of the consequences for the rest of the planet, is extremely selfish.

Obviously you already believe there's aliens, why do you need proof?

Yes, we know you know it's a bad idea. Got it. Really, you've made ALL of your objections very clear.

I am selfish? I disagree. I don't think I've made any selfish remarks to date on ATS and I'd like you to show me where. I think I'm being the exact opposite of selfish by asking YOU to contribute positively.

And "Obviously, I believe there are Aliens?" What kinda shot is THAT? Anybody that looks at the universe and says "We're alone" is saying that there's an awful waste of prime real estate. And, why would you ask "Why do you need proof" to ANYONE that visits this site. That alone should paste a "Dis-information Agent" sticker smack dab right on your forehead.

I've been glove-slapped in ATS!?! I think NOT, sir!

Cuhail as a cucumber, "Brother"

Originally posted by Miah
I'd love to hear a better idea, otherwise I disagree with all claims that this proactive stance would not get media attention worldwide.

Yes: you would get media coverage. Yes: it would most likely be international if your 'numbers' were large enough. No: it would not help the call for disclosure.

Why can I say that with such absolute certainty? Because I am not blind with my ambitions in respect to forcing disclosure. I want to see what the governments know and/or are hiding but I am realistic in that I understand that this is a secret they want to keep from us at this time for whatever reason.

I also understand that the media will not be treating you as the underdog going against 'the man'; nor will it be your theoretical shield against violence/arrest. You will most likely be treated as a quaint bunch of conspiracy nuts who have watched one too many episodes of X-Files (the same way they treat any extensively covered group with regards to matters of this nature).

So in the end your group winds up getting arrested or killed (after all...they are allowed to use deadly force and have given much warning that they will). The media spins it as a group of nutjobs or domestic terrorists -the 5,000 dollar word these days- and you are instantly discredited in the public eye.

"Those ET conspiracy nuts got what they deserved. The news said that they had gotten so wrapped up in ET conspiracies and that they were going to try and blow up a portion of the base to try and prove something!"

"My lord, I am so happy that the soldiers acted quickly and ended the threat before it could come into fruition. Those conspiracy people are no better then terrorists in my opinion!"

That does not seem to be to far fetched in my humble opinion. It isn't like spinning a negative story about a group of individuals who believe in an alternate point of view crossing an extensivley marked off border would be difficult.

So I beg of you to listen to what the majority of the responders have said. For your own safety and for the small bit of headway which has been made towards some sort of disclosure (or at least positive public opinion for that matter) I ask you to not attempt your grandious plan.



[edit on 1/17/0707 by spines]