History of AboveTopSecret.com incomplete?

Okay, so I went to the HISTORY page for ATS ...

handbook.abovetopsecret.com...

... where it says:

AboveTopSecret.com or ATS is the website that started it all. Started in 1998 by site owner Simon Gray, it began as a collection of conspiracy-related pages. A small discussion forum was added, and over the years grew to encompass all the subsections listed below. Here you'll find conspiracy discussion on every topic you can imagine, from UFOs to Political Scandals to Paranormal phenomenon. On the main forum page, you will find a listing of all forums and a description of the topics within. Please read the forum descriptions carefully and be sure your topic is going in the right forum. Run by the tireless efforts of Administrator SkepticOverlord and pushed by the business savvy Springer, the entire community has grown in leaps and bounds.

I see no mention of its connections to Electronic Arts' controversial computer game MAJESTIC, nor can I find any forum posts about this part of ATS's history.


SMiles

Originally posted by elfis
I see no mention of its connections to Electronic Arts' controversial computer game MAJESTIC, nor can I find any forum posts about this part of ATS's history.

That's because there is no connection.

Where did you hear that there was?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

That's because there is no connection.

Where did you hear that there was?

Howdy SkepticOverlord.

Well, for the sake of full disclosure ...

Back in early 2001 I wrote a brief article based on research I was doing at the time on the release of Electronic Arts' then latest game, MAJESTIC.

My research at the time led me to conclude that AboveTopSecret.com (and several other websites) were created as fronts for that EA game. My conclusion was based on public news articles about the game's development as well as my own limited WHOIS research.

My original article was posted and reposted at these URLs:

Majestic Art of Mind Kontrol
Alert: Majestic Art of Electronic Disinformation
ELFIS-Journal of Possible Paradigms: 3/23/01
Majestic Art of Electronic Disinformation

Of course I've been intriqued by the incredible growth and success of ATS ever since, especially since the EA game MAJESTIC tanked in the wake of 911.

So ... I was just recently looking over my website and rediscovered my old article. But I also discovered that my original article on my own website has been mostly deleted. Using archive.org and other resources I am putting the pieces back together and figured I'd finally stroll on over here to ATS and see what, if anything, there might be in the way of information about the game ... 5 years after the fact.

In the several articles I originally sourced for my initial research I had found numerous references to various websites that had been created by the creators of the EA game as well as evidence that various real paranormal and parapolitical researchers were being "sponsored" by the game and, presumably, participating in the dissemenation of game-related information.

Among the many sites I found that was participating was AboveTopSecret.com

Now, as I am putting the pieces of my research from 5 years ago back together the only reference I can find is here:

Archive.org capture of Majestic-Alliance.com circa April 2001
Archive.org capture of Majestic-Alliance.com/alliance.html circa April 2001

The frontpage and alliance page (in the page's title and footer) clearly state:

"AN OFFICIAL 'MAJESTIC' WEBSITE FROM ABOVETOPSECRET.COM
CONTACT WEBMASTER"

And the Contact Webmaster link goes to [email protected]

Is that "Simon" the same Simon Gray who is the site owner for ATS?

SMiles

I created the Majestic-Alliance website as a "fan site" years ago because I was intrigued by the whole concept EA was taking. Obviously it didn't pan out very well, and my interest quickly faded too.

I received nothing from EA, nor was the Majestic-Alliance.com website endorsed by them, as the site was something of my own undertaking and I created it with the intention of providing a place (discussion forums) for players of the game to meet up and discuss how it's all going.

This was before the good ol' Overlord took over I.T. operations which is why he has no clue what you are talking about.

Ah HA!

Now all the pieces fall into place.

Very Interesting, atleast to me.
Can anyone tell my why the EA game Majestic was controversial?

Plausible deniability ? >ducks the vase thrown by Simon<
Seriously, news to me, also. I've never even heard of the game, until now.
Is it still available ? For PC ?
If so, worth playing ?

Thanks,
Lex

I didn't think it was controversial. Not sure why it would get that kind of description.

It wasn't a typical PC game, and it's no longer around. Unfortunately, the game was halted after 9/11 and the user base didn't reach the levels anticipated.

The game involved real-world interaction over telephone, IM and the player visiting websites trying to solve a conspiracy surrounding a Shadow Government.

The best description I can find is on this article at Wikipedia.

Originally posted by SimonGray
I didn't think it was controversial. Not sure why it would get that kind of description.

So, do you own a copy of this game? You have played it?
I ask because I was wondering if events in the game were the controversy, or if the story line of a 'secret elite government entity' was the controversy.

It wasn't a typical PC game, and it's no longer around. Unfortunately, the game was halted after 9/11 and the user base didn't reach the levels anticipated.

You say 'Unfortunately' here. Curious choice of words.
What is unfortunate about a video game going belly up? It happens all the time.

Why, in your best guess, was the game 'halted' after 911?

Originally posted by elfis

Of course I've been intriqued by the incredible growth and success of ATS ever since, especially since the EA game MAJESTIC tanked in the wake of 911.

Yes, how odd it is that the events of 911 appear to have effected the sales of one particlular video game and the growth one particular forum, and that these two seemingly unconnected things appear to have atleast a thread of commonality, and an inverse relationship to boot.

This is an interesting revelation - to say the least.

I am preserving this thread on my computer - just in case it disappears.

Originally posted by elfis
My research at the time led me to conclude that AboveTopSecret.com (and several other websites) were created as fronts for that EA game. My conclusion was based on public news articles about the game's development as well as my own limited WHOIS research.

Hey elfis...for the sake of transparency, instead of sending you a PM, I'll just ask you this here. What did you find specifically, in your research, that led you to conclude that ATS and other websites were fronts for the EA game? I assume the evidence must have been substantial and beyond circumstantial for you to make a conclusion, as opposed to a speculation or guess? Or should I stop being lazy and take the time to read your article...do you lay out the evidence in your article?

-Ry

Originally posted by Shawnna
I am preserving this thread on my computer - just in case it disappears.

^^^ now that's funny right there ... I don't care who you are. ®Larry - the cable guy



So ...
ATS originated from an "up and coming" video/pc game, which suffered a loss of interest/participation prior to or around the time of 9/11, and has since grown into the Community we see today?

While not true, as Simon has dispelled any such concerns, in the end ... Who Cares?

We're here. We're now. No?

Enjoy the boards, folks.

[edit: ?sp]

[edit on 1/6/2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Anyone who takes the time to actually read this link from the second elfis post above and does not see anything slightly odd is obviously in cahoots with it, or in complete and utter denial.



Here are two snips from the link:

Back in February I learned of a new "game" which threatens to further blur the lines between fact and fiction within the ufo community and its relevant parapolitical/conspiracy sub- communities. It's called Majestic and it is being billed as "The game that plays you." This new online interactive experience uses the player's own mind as the gaming environment with the world wide web and telecommunications networks as its intravenous feed straight into that player's paranoia prone imagination. The international software developer, Electronic Arts, is banking on the popularity of paranoia as a sort of mental thrill ride. Depending upon what level of interactivity a player desires, players can be contacted by the game via web sites, email, online instant messaging, phone, fax, and even cellular phone messaging systems. With "reality" television shows like Mtv's Fear and the Fox Family Channel's World's Most Haunted Places already pushing the envelope of ethical entertainment, the inherant dangers of such a paranoid "game" are quite apparent.

Among the many ethical ambiguities implied by the very premise of the game is its use of real and fake web sites to promote real and hoax news stories. The game designers have gone so far as to create front companies for several of these web sites. They are actively urging fans of the game to create web sites to act as fronts for the game.

The disinformation is already spreading... I'm already receiving emails from experiencers and researchers who are forwarding links to web pages which turn out to be among the growing list of hoax sites. One experiencer sent me a link to an online image of a supposed reptoid alien. The link was to one of the top two Majestic related fan sites, www.abovetopsecret.com.

One of the likely hoax sites is . If you do a whois lookup on this site you get the name of a company called Octopus Interactive - these web developers really know their conspiracy theory... Anyone familiar with the majority of conspiracy theory from the 1980s and 1990s should recognize the Octopus conspiracy as one of the (allegedly) farthest reaching and most convoluted. Most important is the Octopus theory's linking of continuing news reports about software known variously as the Inslaw and Promis programs that were designed with "back doors" for in-the-know agencies.

But perhaps one of the most direct potential dangers to this game's contamination of the UFO scene can be found within one of our communities most prolific contributors: Filers Files. Since June of last year, each issue of Filers Files has contained the important message "Sponsored by Electronic Arts" within its header. To date, Mr. Filer has not responded to my repeated sincere requests for more information on the nature of this sponsorship.

Meanwhile, high quality parapolitical sites such as [/url=www.disinfo.com][/url] have officially announced their open participation in this new gaming experience.

Of course, many will see this game as a part of the conspiracy itself; ie- the Majestic game is simply a pretext for the very type of data gathering / backdoor access to your privacy engendered in the original claims of Octopus conspiracy researchers and NSA Echelon devotees.

Now - doesn't it seem just a little odd - given the nature of ATS content?





[edit on 7-1-2007 by Shawnna]

What's even odder, to me , Shawna,
is the fact that tenured members such as yourself ,
are just discovering this.

I've listened to more than one Simon interview,
with the obligatory, 'History of ATS' question,
and don't recall any such game related background.

Seems like the kind of small talk that would,at least,
come up in RATS or an associated chat lounge,
doesn't it?

And SO has never heard of it?

Interesting synchronicity, even if innocent.

Originally posted by Jbird
What's even odder, to me , Shawna,
is the fact that tenured members such as yourself ,
are just discovering this.

Why does that seem odd to you?

I've never had any reason to question the motives of any of the 3 Amigos - until recently.

Originally posted by Jbird
I've listened to more than one Simon interview,
with the obligatory, 'History of ATS' question,
and don't recall any such game related background.

Seems like the kind of small talk that would,at least,
come up in RATS or an associated chat lounge,
doesn't it?

If you read the information posted in the links provided by the OP - you'll quickly understand why this isn't something that is discussed openly - even in RATS.

Originally posted by Jbird

And SO has never heard of it?

This is the MOST interesting tidbit as far as I'm concerned.

Always,
Shawnna

PS - My name is spelled with two N N's. Thanks!

Originally posted by Shawnna
If you read the information posted in the links provided by the OP - you'll quickly understand why this isn't something that is discussed openly - even in RATS.

It is being discussed here and now "openly" and you have responses from the site owners.

Exactly what are the allegations being made here this time?



Carry on.

I'm neither in cahoots or complete denial, but just honestly confused by this.

Is the contention that ATS was put online as a site for Majestic at least a year before the game went into development? That Neil Young, creator of the game who didn't start working with EA until the end of 1996, asked Simon to set up a website two years later for his game while it was still an idea floating around in his head?

That's some serious planning ahead.

I'm all for a good conspiracy and as paranoid as the next person on ATS, but I'll need a little more evidence to make that leap of logic.

edited to fix one of my dates which was slightly off.



[edit on 7-1-2007 by Duzey]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
It is being discussed here and now "openly" and you have responses from the site owners.

Exactly what are the allegations being made here this time?

You're right - it is being discussed now because an individual (the OP of this thread) posted his research.

With respect to "responses from the site owners" - here's what I'm seeing at this point:

1. SO claims to know nothing about it

2. SG does not deny that AboveTopSecret.com was set up as a front for the EA game. Rather, he acknowledges 'creating the Majestic-Alliance website as a "fan site" years ago because he was intrigued by the whole concept EA was taking.'

Let's see what was included in the Majestic-Alliance website created by SG (emphasis mine):

POLITICAL ACTIVIST SITES: These can range from radicals of the 60s, to 90s, from PGA to the Weather Underground. Each may have a different style and tone, based on personal experience, political outlook, or just a desire to change the political structure in some way. They can link to other organizations, political news, or even music sites. We do not encourage political propaganda of any type in such sites, but we do want to open people's minds to new perspectives. Many existing sites are beginning to join us, creating unique means of entry or in other ways customizing their site so players of Majestic will recognize it. We hope to find more sites that encourage newsletters, journals, and personal information about how to conduct Internet political activism.

ENVIRONMENTAL SITES: These are another version of the political sites, with different agendas ranging from animal rights and vanishing species to eco-protection or eco-activism. We know that we share a common cause with many such groups, but also encourage fictional sites that spell out the consequences of current policies, if they are pursued to their ultimate end.

PRESS SITES: This is another political animal, perhaps coming from the freelance reporter, muckraker, investigative journalist, or professional news monitoring angles. These might also have lots of links to real news, to lend additional credibility and relevance. And, if you don't like the news out there, you should make up some of your own. We would like to also see if the underground can make its presence felt in traditional news outlets. We have already surfaced in the February 5th issue of Newsweek.

RESEARCH GROUPS: We will want to have some 'hardcore' R&D and similar groups who know a lot about secret goings on, and can add a scientific halo to the proceedings. These will be a little more difficult to create, but we encourage sites about propulsion technologies, encoding, artificial life and how it might respond to alien contact, remote viewing experiments, and new methods of researching and proving the validity of documents.

HUMAN RIGHT SITES: We are also interested in privacy issues (especially as they relate to the Internet), control of government agencies through citizen action, and violation of human rights by mind control experiments. We hope that some sites are able to provide this kind of information and create a forum for others with stories about such abuses. We also encourage sites that use new viral email and petition techniques to share them with others, so we may learn how to increase our Internet outreach.

NEW AGE SITES: Everything you can imagine here is fair game. Discussion of ancient archeology and its connection to space travel is one such approach, but we should have ESP webcam recordings, group remote viewing experiments, self healing, and mental hacking as well. Sites like this should also find ways to make them relevant to our community through message boards, polls, chat, and user submitted content.

UFO AND ALIEN SITES: Since we are working with the Majestic Alliance, we of course are interested in materials that explore this topic. It would be nice to encourage people to provide personal experiences, highlight hidden UFO connections with news events, and contain unique elements, such as UFO photographs. We are particularly interested in exploring what has been happening involving the Shadow Government and UFO research since 1947.

Frankly, I find all of the above disconcerting, to say the least.

Particularly the bit about making up the news, if you don't like what's out there. It all seems so manipulative to me.

Always,
Shawnna

-sigh-

Why are none of the "researchers" looking at this:
web.archive.org...*/www.abovetopsecret.com...


It's very clear ATS was a going concern before these articles...
October 1999 ---> abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Archive Link



It's very easy and simple to see that ATS was fully functioning as Simon described long before these odd stories were conceived.