Militias and Martial Law

I had this dream last night, (you can read my blog to see the whole dream as far as I can remember it, though it's kinda weird and not entirely relevant.) The basic "plot" of the dream, was that martial law was declared and me and some other people were rebelling against it, (though I don't think the means we used would prove effective.) But I remember, (in the dream), that the first thought that came to my mind when the tanks rolled into town, was, "Why didn't I join a militia before this happened?"

I think this dream spawned because I've recently been reading about militias and how their goal is to protect the citizens of the United States "from the government". Many claim that if martial law were ever declared they would be the rebels fighting against tyranny, and would basically declare war on the United States military. They say they have a constitutional right to form militias, and probably also feel they have some kind of responsibility to "protect the people from the government".

Many would hope that in the event of a total nationwide martial law, that the soldiers would rebel themselves, and not be willing to fight against their own citizens. But I think this is unlikely. I served in the military for three years and I know how most soldiers think. I think that they would actually believe that what they were doing is right, or if they didn't they would do it anyway out of fear of going to prison. Many militias have members who are high-ranking military officials, but do those officers stand a chance of rallying other soldiers against an uncalled-for Martial Law? I've heard stories that about ten or twenty years ago soldiers were actually being asked to add on to their oaths the fact that they would fire upon their fellow citizens if need be, although I haven't found any verifiable evidence for that quite yet. The oath of enlistment kind of already does that, though:

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

The government already has too much power, in my opinion. President Bush basically has the power to label anyone he sees fit as a "terrorist". (There was a recent thread about this but of course I can't find it.) If he were to utilize this power on a mass scale he could start throwing everyone who disagrees with him into the "concentration camps" that are all over the US.

I think the reality of Martial Law being declared and us losing the last few freedoms we have is a very real possibility. I have a question or two just for discussion's sake. First off, have any of you ever considered joining a militia, or already have joined one? And second, if Martial Law were declared, and the citizens of the United States were to rise up against it, would the militias and everyday citizens stand a chance?

By the way, I found this quote on a militia's website and thought it was very interesting:

"If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution inevitable." — John F. Kennedy

[edit on 30/12/06 by an3rkist]

Martial law is comming, it cannot be stopped now unless something extreme happens such as all the elite who support it fall over dead in one night. By the way, you are not the only one who has dreams of such events, someone else told me they had a dream that martial law had been declared and that they were on the list and that "they" were comming for them.
At THIS point in time, after several new groups of kids have had the chance to join even though they know the war is wrong, I HIGHLY doubt any of the military would defect during martial law. Eight years ago, maybe, now? No. What must be asked though, is where and how will they hit. A book I read a while back has lead me to believe that they will hold the major instalations they have, areas that are loyal to them (STRONG government supporters) will have the local police and SWAT holding things down. Those areas that are NOT loyal to them but hold strategic value such as San Francisco due to naval presence will be hard hit.
Want to know if your area will be hit hard? Ask the question of WHAT IS AROUND YOU! Strong bush or anti? Strong military presence or none? If anti, but no military, but small population, they will care little for you at first unless someone important to them is there.
Here is a question: What will you DO when martial law is declared? WHERE will you go? WHO will you trust? WILL YOU FIGHT THEM or WILL YOU SUPPORT THEM?

Some militias will support the government, however others will not. The problem faced by militias though is the government KNOWS WHO THEY ARE and WHERE they are, as well as HOW MANY of them there is. Militias would be the first to be wiped out since they have records on them, it would be a turkey shoot. The ONLY militias to survive that are against the martial law declaration would be the ones who RUN LIKE HECK when the first wave of military personel arrive.
Realize, you may be fighting domestic military, but you may also be fighting foreigners, they have brought in MANY different military groups, my state has a GERMAN AIRFORCE base based inside of a missile testing range. While the US military is off on other wars, they may just have foreigners keep control while they are away, it will relieve a lot of pressure on their numbers.

There's a lot of things to be thought about before things go too far. Many of us have had a lot to say on this subject.


Resource

A few authors have taken a stab at trying to guess how all this might get started. I've taken a shot at it myself.

ATS Tinwiki

There are a lot of reasons to "see" this coming. Here's one that I've posted on ATS more than a few months ago.

Posse Comitatus

Here's another ATS thread that has a technical discussion on the matter, bas4d on worked I've posted on other sites back in early 2005.

Future of American Militias

21st century U.S. militias will have to be much more than a goold ole boys club if we expect them to play any significant role in our future safety and salvation. I went to some lengths to make this point in my book, which you can read about in the ATS tinwiki.

Militia members should no longer be thought of as nuts with guns. They should be thought of as a source of patriotism. I'll be the first to admit that some of those good old boys do have a few screws loose, but not all of them. These men and women may not know it yet, but they could be called on to form some very complex thoughts which may have to be translated in to difficult deeds....if things don't turn out as they should.

What should be thought about though is in the event of civil war and martial law, how many of those militia groups will survive the first few months? How many will not? In martial law, a militia group is about as profound a group of enemies as you can get. They have ranks, and are willing to fight you. So logically so you must wipe them out.
If militias get too soft as they have anymore, it will be a turkey shoot for the military, the smart ones will head for the hills just as the martial law starts to set in, the foolish will die. Those who survive will have two choices: hide for the rest of their lives and die a meaningless life and probably wind up captured OR regroup and fight back, yet should they die at least they tried to do something. In truth the militias would only hinder the government for a short time, the true challange will be in getting the people to fight back on the whole.
Martial law would spell the end for many groups that have tried to make themselves well known, however here is another question:
If they come for you, and CAPTURE you, what will you do? Will you try to escape? Will you just curl up and die? Will you sit there hoping "the cavalry" shows up and liberates your camp? What?

Pending on what they do, and considering the public is getting more hostile towards them, they need to do something NOW. If they do not, then they will only make matters worse for themselves in the long run. Part of having an effective martial law is keeping things under control BEFORE they get completely out of hand, NOT AFTER!

Are you saying that the government should take steps to neutralize all militias?

Logically if they want control, YES! Militias if left alone would be too volitile an enemy, besides which, they are easy to target and thus will bite the dust first. I was speaking from the government standpoint of keeping control. Re-read my statement.

I'm an Australian, so i don't have the duty that you Americans do, but if Martial Law were ever to break out in the US i sadly think that the same may befall us here.

Unless Labor wins the next election and removes 10-year standing Howard then we might as well become the next US state... we've done whatever Bush has told us since he gained power. Perhaps Howard is afraid of him? Or in with his circle?

Either way, unless we vote out Howard (i can assure you i won't be voting for him ) things might get bad over here.

Howard knows the vast majority of Australians are against the war... we have a huge sense of Patriotism and Auzzie pride, which means we don't like being told what to do by foreign powers.

Australian troops were belittled and abused when they returned from Vietnam. My dad is one of them. I dearly hope the same isn't done to those that come home from Iraq, but it is a very similar situation.

Anyway, getting off topic a bit.

If Martial Law did break out in America i can assure you that your civilians would have the support of Australia and British civilians. Our government might think differently, but i can guarantee that us civis would some how get some help to you.

Hey True Blue!

Nothing like Aussie Patriotism eh? Damn right thou - we love our freedom and there is no way anyone is going to take that away without a fight, and we know that the Yank civilians and the Brits yearn for the same as we do, and in times of need we gotta help each other out, no matter how hard, the end result is what matters and it don't matter how you achieve it coz when the sh#t hits the fan, the rule books get thrown out the window!

Freedom for all, for that is what we all deserve, the basic human right!

Glad to see i'm not the only Aussie willing to lend a hand

Well if you wanted to help us people of America, you could keep YOUR military occupied elsewhere, we will try and do the same, this way no one will be overwhelmed.
Here is a question all must ask and answer:
Should a government rise to power as a "global nation" would you join?
They support some of the following:
-Human rights for all
-The ability to keep your voice as a nation, but be part of a greater whole
-Building the world into a strong one world "nation" that is for the benefit of the whole, not the few
-Should a few try to control the whole without the support of the whole, the whole can eliminate the few as they see fit
-A constitution meant to embody the modern world and the future world
-A "one world military" that is in the hands of a "supreme commander" who is advised by a council of 12 "elders" who keep the commander in touch with reality
-The strong protect the weak
-To bring education to all, literacy to all, freedom to all, voices to all, and protection of all
-Elimination of hunger and famine
-Elimination of crime syndicates such as the slave trade.
And a thousands if not millions more such as these. Would you be willing to be part of this? I would be, so long as the voice of the whole is kept and followed. Humanity can never move forward so long as it remains divided so heavily, always being pushed in a million directions at the same time and taught to hate and murder others.

Question is, since Australia has such a concentrated population in the EAST and WEST areas, and then sand inbetween, how long will you last? Will you be able to stop them?


Martial law in the USA would show true colors of the nations of the world, those who follow the current US agenda will follow along, the rest... who knows.

The beauty of Australia is that a large percentage of the population live in Rural areas and are taught from childhood survival skills (whether directly or indirectly).

I live in the Rural East of the country, not far from the coast, and i can assure you that unless the Military got infared trackers on helicopters to come after every small resistance force, they wouldn't find them.

If it ever came to it, it would be easy for small groups of armed civilians to disappear into the bush and mount a Guerrilla campaign.

As far as your global government thing goes, I really don't think it will happen until the world is aware of life outside our own planet. If the world needs to unify to defend itself from another universal power, or to start universal trade etc etc in the far future then i think it would be on the cards, but not in this day and age.

If I may, here is my two cents.... take it for what it's worth.

Originally posted by fooffstarr
Glad to see i'm not the only Aussie willing to lend a hand

I'm not an Aussie, but you as well as anyone seeking to keep their freedoms, has my support as well.

Alone, we will fall... together we shall stand strong.

Originally posted by Vekar
Well if you wanted to help us people of America, you could keep YOUR military occupied elsewhere, we will try and do the same, this way no one will be overwhelmed.

In my opinion, that's not a realistic goal. The "powers that be" are everywhere. The powers that be are inter-connected somehow someway, and "keep yours there and ours here" just isn't going to cut the mustard.

Originally posted by Vekar
Here is a question all must ask and answer:
Should a government rise to power as a "global nation" would you join?

Not only no, but hell no.

Originally posted by Vekar
They support some of the following:
-Human rights for all
-The ability to keep your voice as a nation, but be part of a greater whole
-Building the world into a strong one world "nation" that is for the benefit of the whole, not the few
-Should a few try to control the whole without the support of the whole, the whole can eliminate the few as they see fit
-A constitution meant to embody the modern world and the future world
-A "one world military" that is in the hands of a "supreme commander" who is advised by a council of 12 "elders" who keep the commander in touch with reality
-The strong protect the weak
-To bring education to all, literacy to all, freedom to all, voices to all, and protection of all
-Elimination of hunger and famine
-Elimination of crime syndicates such as the slave trade.
And a thousands if not millions more such as these. Would you be willing to be part of this? I would be, so long as the voice of the whole is kept and followed. Humanity can never move forward so long as it remains divided so heavily, always being pushed in a million directions at the same time and taught to hate and murder others.

Do you honestly believe this is what is in store for you? If so, I hope you wake up before it's too late.

Originally posted by Vekar
Question is, since Australia has such a concentrated population in the EAST and WEST areas, and then sand inbetween, how long will you last? Will you be able to stop them?

I'm not an Aussie, but I'm willing to guess they'll last about as long as they stand together... as well, anyone else would.

Originally posted by Vekar
Martial law in the USA would show true colors of the nations of the world, those who follow the current US agenda will follow along, the rest... who knows.

Actually, it would show the true colors of those that support the NWO, not the nations. When you refer to the nations, you refer to the people. Just because I'm an American, that doesn't mean I support Bush, the war in Iraq, the forming of the North American Union, or the NWO.


Tears of sadness and anger well in my eyes each time this topic comes up. I have loved ones in my family line that have lost their lives fighting to "protect our freedoms"... not as Americans, but as human beings. The wars that continue, IMO, are not to protect our freedoms, but they are to line the pockets of the crooked.


The questions that need to be asked are.. regardless of how you construe it.....


How long are we going to take this? What are we going to do to stop this? What is it going to take to get everyone to wake up and see what is going on? How many freedoms do "we" have to lose before people awake from their apathetic slumber? How many lives have to be lost for the wrong cause? What steps are you willing to take to stop it?


May God Bless each and every one of us.... believer or not.

Don't worry about it too much.

Under U.S. law martial law cannot be declared if existing law enforcement and judicial systems are still in place and functioning. And before the president can declare martial law he must obtain the approval of Congress AND the governor(s) of the states involved. The state militias are still under control of the governor unless the president specifically federalizes them, and there is still some legal dispute whether the president can federalize state militias for domestic operations without the governor's approval.

Then you have the question of how effective regular military and state militias would be. The loyalty of the officers and the soldiers to the president would be highly in question under the scenario you describe -- their loyalty oath is to the Constitution, not the president. It is far from certain the military would go along.

And the Second Amendment must be factored in. The original Homeland Security Act, the 2nd amendment is regarded by most historians and scholars as one of the main reasons there has never been a military coup or dictatorship in the U.S.

I'll stand by what I said earlier. I think that American militias could play an important and unexpected role in any future scenario like we're discussing here.

I dont know what the american militias are doing or planning for now, you'd assume they'd be planning various "what-if" contingencies, just in case sort of scenarios, but they should be all joining forces to and have one militia front to counter act any threats in certain areas, and protect their localities and citizens in a unified way.

Would be pointless having a whole bunch of different militias fighting for different causes wouldnt you say.

It all in or nothing at all!

Indeed. Is there some form of central coordination for US militias?... Or is it basically a few sporadic 'Dad's Armies'?

If they do want to be fully prepared, the major militias should get into talks with one another, establish a communication network, create a website etc etc. Make sure that if events occurred, mistakes wouldn't be made and freedom fighters would not just be fighting each other.

Depends on what you mean by militia...

In America, there were historically the state militias and the national regulars. The regulars turned into what we have as federal troops today (active and reserve), while the militia became the National Guard. The thing is, some of the National Guard is now being deployed. Bush (and his advisors) thought it would be a morale raiser to have more people, who normally live as civilians, supporting the military. Might have been right, I don't know.

Thing is, the National Guard is now very much like the normal armed forces. The requirement is the same, but you can only be deployed for 2 years for ever six-year enlistment period (as far as I know). Technically I guess it's the state militia, but militia is a broader term. It can really be any group of citizens who act as modern-day "minutemen." Dunno.


Oh, and, uh, why exactly do you guys predict martial law being declared?

[edit on 1-1-2007 by Johnmike]

I guess it could be declared for one of a heap of reasons.

The people wise up to bush and riot, so he declares martial law. That sounds 'bush is evil, its all a conspiracy' i know... but i think if anyone in my lifetime will do it it'd have to be bush.

Please have a look at the following link which is to a computer game trailer titled - " SHATTERED UNION - a chilling warning to America"

www.youtube.com...

and tell me if you agree with me on how realistic the possibilities of the scenario depicted could eventuate?

In context of this thread, I think the possibility is 100 percent!

Hmm... I think it's far-fetched. The first declaration of martial law makes sense, you use it to keep order in extreme chaos. In fact, if it was that bad, a governor would probably do it himself if it wasn't done federally.

Now, that "shammed election." It doesn't say how that happens at all, and is a vital part of why things happen. I doubt that would ever happen.

The bomb? There's always a senator that's not in Washington DC, I think they take turns or something, I forget. If something happens, and EVERYONE dies or is otherwise unable to lead, he takes control.
But let's hope our government can stop that before it happens...