Saddam was killed by a bunker buster in March, 2003, not on 30-12-06

I remember watching one of those news programs a year or two ago ...like 20/20... where Sadam's wife DENIED it was him and said that the Sadam they had was a body double and a fake. She admitted it on TV.

I wish I could remember what show it was.

I've sort of thought the Saddam they caught was fake for a while now, granted I had no evidence to back up my claim. It was just a hunch, I mean he had so many doubles, I'm sure the doubles were as interested in hiding from the US forces as the real Saddam was.

The one thing that really stands out to me about this whole debate, and only one poster has mentioned this, is his beard. I knew there was something off about the captured Saddam and I only just realized it was the beard when I read this thread. Now I'm no expert on middle eastern culture but I do know that they take their facial hair pretty seriously.

Take it from someone who has a beard (I have a long medieval style goatee, not a full beard) your facial hair is as important as your hair style. Saddam has always, always, without fail, had that stupid gigantic late 70s style mustache. It was his calling card almost, like Gerlado's mustache, or Teddy Roosevelt's.

A man's choice of beard is very specific to him, I chose mine because it accentuates certain facial features while fixing other features I was never happy with before. It's not just somthing you grow on your face.

Why would Saddam suddenly decide to wear a full beard after capture and all through the trial? If it's not the real Saddam then why would the CIA, or whoever, not have given him the typical Saddam mustache?

Also, and I've just found this out trimming my beard the other day, if you start getting gray hairs, so does your beard. How does Saddam have a full gray beard when they pull him out of his hole, how is it gray through the trial, yet his hair is not? How was he able to dye his hair yet not shave his beard?

Also, notice how long his beard was when they found him, that's a lot of beard growth, would his hair have not grown at the same speed? His hair seems to be only slightly longer than it was before, it's only messy now. However, his beard is tremendously long, I'd wager a good few months of growth, maybe 6 months or more even.

And I've always wondered why he'd be hiding in a hole in the ground in Iraq, there are plenty of places and people in the mid east that hate the US and would probably shelter Saddam just as an "F U" to the US. I mean, supposedly Bin Laden was able to hop from country to country, why not Saddam?

Oh well, just my thoughts, I have no proof, but I don't think that anyone will deny the fact that if Saddam had died in 03 the CIA, or whoever, would fake an execution.

Keep up the good work Denied!

I think either way the real Saddam is dead. Even if the trial, the man in the hole, the execution etc was all a Saddam double.

The reason for this double would be because America had to show that they got Saddam and captured him and brought him to justice.

I think it's highly plausable that the real Saddam could have died in many of the attacks in Iraq. America knowing this, eventually set up a capture scenario. Saddam hiding in a hole does not show him for who he was. He was a man, a man's man. He didn't want a hood over his head when he was being hanged. His final letter also shows a man of strength, composure, honour. This does not represent the person who they found in 6 by 8 foot hole.

Saddam is gone. But, the man on trial, the man they captured, the man they executed was for western country's benefit, to show that the war has a purpose, and that justice has been done etc.

Saddam's lawyer knew him before and after the trial...I'm pretty sure he would have noticed and spoken up if it were a "different" Saddam standing trial from the one he had known earlier...

Originally posted by Shoktek
Saddam's lawyer knew him before and after the trial...I'm pretty sure he would have noticed and spoken up if it were a "different" Saddam standing trial from the one he had known earlier...

Which lawyer, he had a few and two were murdered.
I was doing some digging, and found this strange.

Now see this article, taken from the account of the execution.

Others can be heard chanting the name of Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr and of Muhammad Sadiq Sadr, his father who was murdered by Saddam Hussein's agents.

news.bbc.co.uk...

His sworn enemy, right?

Eyewitnesses in Baghdad say it was Shiite militiamen who murdered one of Saddam Hussein's lawyers earlier this week. The witnesses say militiamen loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr kidnapped the lawyer and then shot him dead after parading him through the streets of the capital's largest Shiite district. Sadr's spokesman angrily denied the reports.

www.npr.org...

I know al-sadr is Shiite, and Saddam was Sunni, but why would he want to disrupt Saddam trial, and execution?

And as the article states, he angrily denied it.

Any lawyer that was gonna be a problem, could of easily been got rid off.

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Denied]

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Denied]

Originally posted by Denied
Which lawyer, he had a few and two were murdered.
I was doing some digging, and found this strange.

Ramsey Clark...pretty sure he would have raised hell if he though that he was defending a false Saddam.

are you trying to suggest that lawyers actually have a conscience?

Ramsey Clark...pretty sure he would have raised hell if he though that he was defending a false Saddam.

i think if this was a grand conspiracy, with the US behind it, Ramsey Clark would be inconsequential, and maybe even part of the decoy.

Also found this.

Clark said in the Jordanian capital Amman that his principle concern was protecting the former president's rights, who only saw a lawyer for the first time this month - a year after his capture.

After a year, thats pretty long for anyone, maybe he was fooled too.

english.aljazeera.net...

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Denied]

Yea right...if you knew Clark's history, you would know that any fake saddam planted by the US government would certainly set him off. But I guess it's more likely that we had an imposter the whole time, right?

Originally posted by Shoktek
Yea right...if you knew Clark's history, you would know that any fake saddam planted by the US government would certainly set him off. But I guess it's more likely that we had an imposter the whole time, right?

This is the same guy who.....

When not sucking up to Saddam, Clark was off defending Slobadon Milosivec, going so far as urging Belgrade to resist NATO and promising that, if it did, it would enjoy "a glorious victory."

" After losing a case in which he defended Karl Linas, who had served as a Nazi Guard at a concentration camp in Estonia, Clark publicly questioned the need to keep prosecuting Nazis, "forty years after some god-awful crime they're alleged to have committed."

www.leftwatch.com...

Really solid character

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Denied]

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Denied]

I feel that saddam used plenty of fakes in his time, but that the dude they captured and hung was the real saddam. His face wrinkles and lines on his forhead match up exactly from pre to post capture.

His teeth I can't say. All I know is this-Saddam was a proud man. If he was born with nasty teeth and then got all aristocratic, he probably got caps, mouldings or some other dental device to make his teeth look all proper and such, just like hollywood celebrities. When running for his life he probably forgot to pack his dental kit or whatever and so now everybody knows that saddam had messed up teeth.

Also aristocrats pose when taking photos, or whenever they are out in public. He was probably putting on a fake smile complete with overbite. After his fall, probably not so much into looking pretty for the cameras. so slack jawed depression sets in hence his drool collecting underbite.

Originally posted by Denied
www.leftwatch.com...

Really solid character

Really solid source you are citing there...you might want to examine where you are getting information before you put it out there. Left watch.com? Worthless source of information...

Anyway, I never tried to give any testament to Clark's character or how he is as a person, etc...I don't agree with the guy to begin with, but he's a lawyer, and he does a pretty good job at it. I do know that he would certainly not just go on defending some guy who isn't even Saddam, a person he had known way before the capture, and remain silent. But once again, you would rather believe some incredible conspiracy is going on, rather than use logic to look for fact and truth.

Where is the proof to back these outlandish claims? Oh yea, it's a few photos of Saddam from the media, showing the same guy, who might look different in the pictures, due to aging, as well as the fact that people tend to look differently in photos throughout time. And with your expertise in the subject, you can surely claim that there are different people in certain photos. Then the CIA, or whoever masterminded this conspiracy of the century, trained a perfect Saddam clone to think, act, speak, and behave just like Saddam, sent him off for trial, and got away with it. Yep, that's really likely.

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Shoktek]

Where is the proof to back these outlandish claims?

I don't claim they are absolute proof, i'm just raising an interesting speculation.

Then the CIA, or whoever masterminded this conspiracy of the century, trained a perfect Saddam clone to think, act, speak, and behave just like Saddam, sent him off for trial, and got away with it.

This is ATS skunk works, not the front page of the guardian, its speculation, backed up with a "possible" theory, relax.

Originally posted by Denied
This is ATS skunk works, not the front page of the guardian, its speculation, backed up with a "possible" theory, relax.

Sorry for coming off as I did (too aggressive?), didn't realize this was in the skunkworks forum.

Just when you thought it was safe to go out with the kids, you find Saddam is still out there being the evildoer that he is. Probably stocking up on WMDs as we speak!

Originally posted by Shoktek
Just when you thought it was safe to go out with the kids, you find Saddam is still out there being the evildoer that he is. Probably stocking up on WMDs as we speak!

I claim he is dead, died in 2003, they wanted this trial and execution for political reasons, and more.

Originally posted by Denied
they wanted this trial and execution for political reasons, and more.

Surely, although I think that they did hang the actual Saddam at the execution. The quick hanging also coincided quite nicely with Bush's call for more troops in Iraq. It is obvious that it would have been (and is) causing increased tension and violence over there.

Just a thought but wouldnt people listening to Saddam talk during the trial know it wasnt the real Saddam?

While i see promise with this theory and agree with the reasons for it i think voice recognition by experts would be a scary proposition for the US in pulling this off,not that voice recognition is 100% and even if it was they could still pull the wool over most eyes.I Guess im still on the fence but it would be interesting to get some analysis of some Saddam speaches before and during the trial,even if doubles made some speaches it would help narrow things down to the real Saddam with better reliability.

Kewl thread

Found an old news clip, in march '03 that talks about this theory.

CBS news clip.

Jim Stewart talks to a CIA expert about Saddam's uncharacteristic appearance and questions whether a double was used.

www.cbsnews.com...

Scroll down to the one in the middle under the date March 20, 2003

At the very end of the page.
I cant seem to link the video.


Alot of useful footage of Saddam/double.

As the days after the swift fall of Baghdad turned into months, Saddam Hussein's condition and whereabouts remained a critical question in Iraq. Video and audio footage of the Iraqi dictator appeared on Iraqi television and on other outlets with some regularity, seemingly as proof of his survival. But were these authentic images of Saddam, pre-taped propaganda, or performances by one of his body doubles? We now know that he was, in fact, alive all along. But the authenticity of these messages may forever remain a mystery.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by Denied]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by Denied]

very good video link "denied"

I just wanted to point out that the video mobile phone recording of the execution was important to show us that he was hanged.
Nobody in the media (so far) is actually suggesting that he might be a double.
There was that importance for Sadam not to be hooded at the execution. Not sure if that was really his wish .....

Originally posted by frozen_snowman
Nobody in the media (so far) is actually suggesting that he might be a double.

Your right, none of the mainstream media has suggested it recently.
But, as you know, it was discussed back in 2003, as in link in previous post.

But no one brings it up now.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by Denied]