TC,

Why would god think it better to kill a defensless animal as a sacrifice instead of actually WORKING to produce something for god. Maybe god doesn't eat veggies... poor bastard...

Cain could have easily killed something for god. The fact that he went out of his way to WORK and produce something, to show an actual initiative and put alot of thought into what he was doing, regardless of attitude problems, should have been better. Able however said crap.. need a sacrifice, hey look a lamb! SLICE... there ya go god Oh yeah....so much better...

[Edited on 15-11-2002 by JamesG]

I thought that Cain and Abel were firstborn and second born of Adam and Eve... or did I miss something?

Yes, Byrd, Cain was the first born, and I assume as well that Abel was the second born, or at least the next male born. Seth was also mentioned by name as well, but the
Bible does say that Adam fathered sons and daughters. It doesn't tell us when they were fathered, and there's no telling how many were fathered between the three that were mentioned in particular.
Obviously there were some girls in there, or else Cain and Abel would have been without wives, and then their offspring, obviously, would have created more mates. Cain's wife was obviously either as sister or a daughter of Abel's.

The law forbidding marrying close relatives did not come about until Moses (in the book Leviticus). After a couple thousand years the genes were starting to become damaged and when close relatives have offspring, the chance of identically damages genes peiring up and causing birth defects was greater.

Once again, James, you don't know the heart of ol' Cain, or why God did as He did. One can only speculate to a certain degree but I feel it has more to do with intent of the human than just that God prefers meat over veggies. It might have been due to the offerings were symbolic of the blood Christ would later shed for us. We are cleansed of our sin by the blood of Christ. Up until then, the animal sacrifice represented the covering of the sin until Christ cleansed us.

It don't take no 2000 years for genetic screwups through incest. Just ask any hick family... LOL, go ask pa

Anyone can kill an animal and spill blood in the name of there god. What Able did was a quick and easy sacrafice. He didn't even have to think about it. Just one quick slice.

Cain on the other hand spent month's of working just to produce his sacrafice. All that hard work he did and he gave it to god. His sacrafice was much better in my opinion.

Once again, James, I doubt we know all the information.
*Chuckle* I was just imagining how church would be if you were god: "Today we will be reading from the books of St. Beavis and St. Butthead...."

Hey! Leave the good 'ole saint's out of this

Thomas Crowne, why is it when I give these brilliant and intelligent people here, EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE WERE AROUND THAT WERE NOT DECENDANTS OF ADAM OR EVE.

You dismiss it by insulting me?

You just don't have the answers, for all those who didn't previously see my evidence, here it is....

Genesis 4:14
"You are driving me off the land and away from your presence. I will be a homeless wanderer on the earth, and anyone who finds me will kill me."

Now with someone with a more understanding brain please respond to that MAJOR fact in the bible.

That Adam and Eve were not the first, nor only humans, but merely the first in Eden. And then, only in that part.

Thomas Crowne is obviously too ignorant, and his brain can't handle the information I have presented. So all he can do is call me names.

But as you can clearly see, Cain is fearing others finding him, at a time when only about 15 people were living on earth, and 1 was his wife.

He could have walked in ONE direction and have never been seen again.

As for the city, NO you idiot Thomas Crowne, a city needs PEOPLE.

Not just a wall, I think you should think about your posts next time you decide to insult me.

Secondly, Cain some how magically finds people who can farm the land, to feed his city.

Because as we all know, Cain could not farm the land. So what did he eat while his sons and daughters were growing and he building his city?

Nay, Cain found others, and he and they built a city in his first born's name.

Thomas Crowne, I suggest you grow a brain, and see for yourself this evidence, that Adam and Eve were not the ONLY to parent humanity, there were others populated all around the world.

Sincerely,
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As usual, FreeMason, your stupidity is surpassed only by your offensiveness.

You have no desire but to be a stupid little troll, and you have no desire to learn. As a matter of fact, you continue to spew the same garbage about something that you know nothing of.

You are one thing if nothing else; a very convincing argument for abortion. You could almost make me rethink my position.

You have not offered any evidence but have only displayed your ignorance.

I insult you because you are offensive and insulting, and that is why I insult you. Do you like it, you filthy little street urchin, you snot-nosed little punk with a big mouth and no brain? You are so used to being offensive that you probably don't even notice your own stench, but you came barreling into this place insulting people, attacking beliefs and posting more stupid and inane garbage than anyone should ever have to see. You are attacked because you attack. You are actually too stupid to see it, and for that, I continue. You owe the board an apology for being an offensive, insulting little troll, yet you are so stupid and blind in your hate and filth that you can't see this.
You asked, I answered.

[Edited on 16-11-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

LoL MY OFFENSIVENESS??? Listen to yourself bible thrower, now I would like someone intelligent to start posting in this thread, not the bafoon TC who can't even distinguish Satire and Irony from facts.

I say, who has a comment on that part of the bible? Which shows evidence to there being more humans before adam and eve.

Anyone? No TC put your hand down.

You know TC, you are the one calling me Ignorant, and yet, I've stumped you....you have plainly shown that you CAN NOT answer that part of the bible, it is just such PLAIN evidence that ADAM AND EVE Are not the first humans in the rest of the world. I guess you better go tell your church now so that they can rewrite the bible....................................................................................................................................AGAIN!!!!

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 16-11-2002 by FreeMason]

You havben't a clue when the truth hits you in the face, you revolting, putrid piece of feces. You think you, a little piece of trash, can pretend to know more than those who've actually read a book? Why, you cannot even carry yourself as a Mason, you offensive idiotic pseudo-bigot.
You haven't enough knowledge of the subjedct to be in the classroom, much less pretend to stand in front of the class. I'd say you should stand in front of a class instructing in a topic you have knowledge of, but nobody here particularly is interested in offense 101

Freemanson
how do you prove that adam and eve were not the first humans in the earth
what is your evidence
it says in Genesis
that adam was the first man and that eve was the first woman made from adam's ribs. i just want to know your proof that adam and eve were not the first humans (religious wise)

[color=Red]Well since TC insists on not discussing this, I'll repost my original statement with the part in question in quotes.[/color]

SO HE KNEW HIS WIFE BIG DEAL!!!!!

You all miss the point....Cain built (founded) a city!!!!! Called Enoch, when there were still only about 11 or so people in the WHOLE WORLD!

Now.....the irrefutable evidence has been provided by our very own Byrd, and Thomas Crowne, I doubt you'll rebuke this.

It says clear as day she concieved a son and then he built his city and named it after his son. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but even after only 900 years they wouldn't really have a population enough to start a city of even low proportions.

Well there is no point in beating it to death, the fact is it is a poorly written part in the bible, and because of that it is proof that there were people to the east, even though they weren't of Cain.

In fact, this can be shown by Lamech's wives if I'm not wrong? Both his wives are not decendants of Cain, and yet nor are they refered to as decendants of Adam? Where the hell did they come from?

Actually here is a reference to there being people outside of Eden.

Genesis 4:14
"You are driving me off the land and away from your presence. I will be a homeless wanderer on the earth, and anyone who finds me will kill me."

That's a strange fear for someone who apparently only has a few sisters (one his wife) and no more brothers...

Ugh this seems unfair of god...but I guess it coincides with the Abramic religions being that of a "herder's religion", and not an Agrarian's, after all in the time of israel back then, those lands had been sufficiently deforested and became little more than grazing lands, and so they remain.

Here is what I think is BS...

GOD DARES TO NOT RECOGNIZE CAIN'S NOBEL SACRIFICE? ABEL KILLS A STINKING LAMB, WOW HOW HARD IS THAT, BUT CAIN!!!!! CAIN TILLS THE SOIL, PLANTS A SEED, IRROGATES THE FEILD, TILLS THE SOIL, KEEPS HIS CROPS CLEAN AND THEN HARVESTS THEM!!!! AND WHEN HE OFFERS IT AS HIS SACRIFICE, GOD TURNS HIS FACE TO ABEL'S!

I don't think God knows much of farming.

Sincerely,
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bluegrl the proof is in that quote, at that time Adam would have been about...oh 90 AT MOST! And even had he been reproducing for 60 years, he'd still only be able to AT MOST have about 90 children, if even that.

Yet Cain is afraid to go into the wild! Away from them, for fear that others will FIND HIM??? That is a rediculus part of the bible.

I tried to have TC give an educated answer but he insists on being an idiot, so I guess we'll just have to make due.

Now taking into account he has 90 children, saying it is evenly distributed 45 boys 45 girls that means they all could only have had about 50-60 children in that same amount of time as Adam.

There is no reason for Cain to have any fear of ANYONE and yet he does. That is why I say Adam and Eve were only the first born by either A) GOD or B) FIRST BORN IN EDEN. (the choosen people)

But that one little quote right there, is a ground shattering peice of evidence in the bible of other's existing that were not of Adam's loin.

Sincerely,
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Wassamatter, FM, you don't like the answer that is correct because it doesn't support your incorrect and bigoted opinion, so you repost your garbage? Your ignorant assertions and questions were all answered, everything from your lack of understanding of what was meant as a city, to where Cain found his wife to who in the world wanted to kill him would come from.

Because of your blind hate, you try to write in words that are not there and build unto something that isn't there. Your ignorance of what words meant as written cause you to jump to the wrong conclusion, or follow along as your erroneous antiChristian websites guide you.
Above all, you just want to belittle a belief you have no understanding of. One of your first postings here even said the mere mention of the word "Christian" caused you to want to spit. Such hate and bigotry you harbor.
You are a little man that deserves pity, no doubt.

But back to the point, your inane points and misguided statements have been put to rest by someone whose knowledge of the subject (One I have been involved in for decades) is much superior to yours.

Now, sit down, child, and try and learn more and offend less

How many miles East is Nod, oh knowledgeable one?

How far did anybody travel?

As Cain had no reason to believe he wouldn't live for hundreds of years naturally, and as in the course of just 150 years, the population would be that such thee was a great chance that some of his kinfolk that would be holding a grudge would come across him, why would he not fear for his life?

You are attempting to disprove the bible in your blind hatred that simple logic and common sense escapes you.

I'll leave you to your ignorance now. You aren't worth my time, and anyone led astray by you and your stupidity can easily be led back on course by truth

LoL TC, YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ANY ANSWER!!!! SO how can I not like the answer?

Stop being a damned soviet you propogandist.

I'm not asking for your opinions TC, I'm asking for evidence that disaccounts that quote. Even in 900 years 2 people could only populate the world with a few thousands, no more than 20,000, which is NOT MANY AT ALL.

You obviously know less about sociology and demography than you do christianity, and you don't seem to know much about that, because you are letting your anger get the best of you.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 16-11-2002 by FreeMason]

ok so then what' the real answer?

The real answer as I do believe I stated in that posted re-post, is it is just a poorly worded part of the bible. However, TC wants to shove words in Cain's mouth, and make us think Cain was referring to future relatives...this is most erroneous, for that is all speculation.

The fact is this part of the bible says that there IS more people out there then just Adam and Eve's decendants, and if you wish to discount it with "Oh well he's really saying this or that" then be my guest, but that's not what it says. It is literally saying...ANYONE!

Sincerely,
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No words shoved into anyone's mouth, dude. Just because you don't comprehend doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

Really, though, don't you feel stupid trying to tell somebody who's studied his own faith for decades that he is wrong on such a simple, basic thing that even 10 year old Christian children that I know would have understood?
Again, you should feel embarassed by your offense of people and their personal beliefs, but as usual, your hatred and bigotry blinds you.
Maybe one day you will mature and realize then how stupid and foolish you should feel now.

I have been trying to teach you how you should feel and how you come across, but I don't think you have the ability to pick up on it, so I am telling you now, I am done with the insults directed at you. You have learned nothing and I am only feeling dirty for acting like you are.

I have one thing to say to you TC about your "studying your faith so you must be correct crap".

Nazis!!! Nazis had a doctrine, they all lived under an ideal, and not one of them would agree with it now, looking at it from the outside. You TC are looking at it ONLY from the inside, so much so that you WILL not address this discrepency in the bible.

In my opinion, and I hope in the opinion of others, you have failed to provide any evidence to discount my quote. Evidence being facts.

All you have done is become very insulting, and arrogant, which can only lead to the conclusion that you are becoming frustrated by my Quote, which must mean you have NO logical answers backed up with ANY PROOF.

Good day sir,
sincerely,
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