Combat Shotguns (an attempt at an intelligent post)

Touche. However, speed isn't everything. The ability to place your shots, as well as the non-cumulative recoil (because, face it- if you havea semi-auto weapon you'll want to USE it like a semi auto weapon and keep yanking on the trigger) I figure would factor into accuracy. But, this is beside the point. We aren't arguing pump vs. semi or full. we're arguing best combat shotgun, and the Saiga simply doesn't have the versatility I feel is neccesary in a tactical environment.

DE

if you havea semi-auto weapon you'll want to USE it like a semi auto weapon and keep yanking on the trigger)

true..maybe.....but if i kick in a door and their is a building full of unknowns...im going to want to be able to level the whole room as fast as possible...

[Edited on 11-20-2003 by sirCyco]

There's another problem with semi-autos...door entry is a pain in the ass when you have to change to a clip of breachers, blow the door, change your clip, then go in. Or you could just go in with door breachers...which would probably result in you being dead.

door entry is a pain in the azz when you have to change to a clip of breachers, blow the door, change your clip, then go in.

why cant you have door breachers in the same clip as regular buck shot or magnun slugs?? as long as its a 12 gauge shell i dont see where it says it wont fit..

[Edited on 11-20-2003 by sirCyco]

Hope you're counting your shots, then. fire once too often or once too few times, and you'll have to fire AGAIN, or have lost a breaching roudn needlessly. Sure, it's okay for initial entry, but if you're already inside, ro conduction continuous operations...it's unpleasant to be counting shells all the time.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Hope you're counting your shots, then. fire once too often or once too few times, and you'll have to fire AGAIN, or have lost a breaching roudn needlessly. Sure, it's okay for initial entry, but if you're already inside, ro conduction continuous operations...it's unpleasant to be counting shells all the time.

i think the same easily applies to a pump shotgun..

woa this is way to complicate what happend to the old remington 12 gauge ??? i have used it for years is it no longer in style ??? lol

Why? You load it with the buckshot , then when you come to a door, pump out the remaining shells (probably one or two because it's a six-round mag) and slip in some breachers followed by the buckshot again. That's a benefit to pump action shotguns with smaller clips- easy to reload, easy to change loadout.

DE

woa this is way to complicate what happend to the old remington 12 gauge ??? i have used it for years is it no longer in style ??? lol

yeah its in style for small game hunting..like ducks and stuff like that..

That's a benefit to pump action shotguns with smaller clips- easy to reload, easy to change loadout

you have to reload it by hand one shell at a time...how is this an advantage to simply popping in a new clip?

Think back to the ithica stakeout. Okay, roudn round clip. You could reload it faster than the bigger shotguns, and still change from breachers to tear gas to buckshot fairly quickly. It's all about versatiliy in my mind. Yeah, sure, speed is nice. But it takes more than speed to make a weapon good or even great. And I thought we said we weren't discussing pump vs. semi....

DE

And I thought we said we weren't discussing pump vs. semi....

well what else is there to discuss about the 2?

Well, I WAS hoping for some other opinions. I haven't heard anyone screaming SPAS-12 yet, so I'm kinda surprised. I figured there would be a little more competition.

Only practical solution is pump-action..

All self loaders are too unreabile and mostly do not work with special ammo at all..



And about Saiga-12/12k..

From what i have heard and read.. it only looks like AK..

And has none of the good qualities of the Kalashnikov series..

"the saiga is based on the famous and time-proven Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifle design. All weapons in the Saiga family inherited the basic design of the AK-47, with long piston stroke gas drive, rotating bolt with two massive lugs, and box magazine feeding."

The 20 and especially .410 gauge versions are very popular as a civilian self-defense and plinking weapons, and there's even some versions in .410 gauge (Saiga-410-K1) that mimic the original AK-74M very closely (same furniture, similar sights and even a muzzle brake).

Good qualities..



Saigas suck, they jam and have feeding problems..

Their magazines dont function.. and special ammo (low-recoil..) is totally of the menu..

Saigas suck.

P.S.

I really am getting fed up with this whole weapons forum as all wnb and sunday experts are trying here to feed me with loads of BS!!!

(Like in the stupid a$$ AK-47 vs M-16 topic..)



Like some of you know:

I have been in the military,

I have trained other there,

I am a reservist NCO at the moment..

I know plenty if not all about weapons and war what there is to know..

Wars and weapons are my hobby, they are my life.



[Edited on 20-11-2003 by FULCRUM]

FULCRUM, as the resident expert, may we ask your opinion on which shotgun is the best for combat?

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
FULCRUM, as the resident expert, may we ask your opinion on which shotgun is the best for combat?

DE

Like i said:

Pump-action..

Remingtons and Mossbergs still being the best!



And most used also..



These dont jam, and these fire all the ammo available..

Hmm. I was wondering about specific models, but okay. Any other opinions?

I was enjoying this post until it started to flame. admittedly I know next to nothing about shotties, but I found the posts interesting and informative.