If Being Gay is alright in the eyes of God then.....

Ok religion aside (i myslef am agaisnt gays, and gay marriage), scientifically being gay does not provide for the best interest of Nature and evolution. The species ceases to exist.It is a scientific fact that certain species of salamaders living in a same sex environment mutate into the other sex. Sexual reproduction is in evolutions interest for higher level organisms. If you want to be gay fine, just dont hit on me. Peace

Originally posted by TACHYON
If you want to be gay fine, just dont hit on me.

One more time for those that still don't get it.
Noone wants to be gay.
Some are born gay, and some are not.

Originally posted by TACHYON
Ok religion aside (i myslef am agaisnt gays, and gay marriage), scientifically being gay does not provide for the best interest of Nature and evolution. The species ceases to exist.It is a scientific fact that certain species of salamaders living in a same sex environment mutate into the other sex. Sexual reproduction is in evolutions interest for higher level organisms. If you want to be gay fine, just dont hit on me. Peace

That would be true if homosexuals made up the majority of the Earth's population. Since they only make up about 10% of Americans, and I'm sure the global average is lower than that, homosexuality does not pose a threat to the propogation of the species.
As a matter of fact, the high rate of reproduction and the increasing numbers of humans moving into tightly packed cities may be the reason we are seeing increased incidents of homosexuality throughout society. It could very well be nature's way of putting the brakes on, in order to slow down the rate of reproduction, so that we don't overpopulate our environment.
Do you realize that if the entire population of China walked past you in single file, the line would never end, because of the rate of reproduction?

If nature needed to slow down our rate of reproduction, it would be far easier to increase the number of people attracted to the same sex, than to suppress our desire for human intimacy.

If, instead of the existence of homosexuals, 10% of all heterosexuals were born without the ability to reproduce, it would probably be barren couples who get called "abominations" and "unnatural", instead of gay couples. I imagine there are even a few Biblical references we could include for justification.

Homosexuals experience the same natural desires, for affection and intimacy, as anyone else. The only thing that differentiates gay people from straight, is their natural attraction to the same sex vs. our natural attraction to the opposite sex. They are not a threat to the human species, nor are they contradictory to the evolutionary process. Since homosexuals are a small percentage of the population, the hetero majority will continue to repopulate the planet, but at a slightly slower rate.

Ok religion aside (i myslef am agaisnt gays, and gay marriage), scientifically being gay does not provide for the best interest of Nature and evolution. The species ceases to exist.It is a scientific fact that certain species of salamaders living in a same sex environment mutate into the other sex. Sexual reproduction is in evolutions interest for higher level organisms. If you want to be gay fine, just dont hit on me. Peace

MMMM! Quote that is chunked full of irony....YOu are against gays, but say you don't mind...what crazy kinda logic is that.

If God disowns Gays, then why would he have created them? If all children, our Gods children?

Originally posted by CinLung
Thanks kinglizard for quoting Leviticus.

Your welcome.

Originally posted by CinLung
Did God say that? or somebody just wrote it up?

The book of Leviticus was written by Moses at the foot of Mount Sinai it records the events in the year 1445-1444 B.C. and is intended as a guidebook for holy living for the Hebrews, God dictated the words to Moses. The purpose of the book was to teach the Israelites how to live as a holy people and how to abide by the word of God.

Originally posted by CinLung
It says "a man lies with a man", it didn't say anything about Gay at all nor gay sexual activity.

What do you think the meaning is? Leviticus 20:13 �If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.� The words are clear, it seems you refuse to see the truth to preserve your own beliefs.

Originally posted by CinLung
I am sure everybody did "lies" before next to man and woman, baby lies next to his/her mother. Brothers lies next to sisters, vice versa.

That�s just stupid and I refuse to comment further.

Originally posted by CinLung
The verse has the word "detestable", which I am not mistaken, it means hateful. How about a happy gay couple do it willingly without detestable feeling?

Webster�s dictionary defines the word as: arousing or meriting intense dislike. So God considers homosexual activity a sin against his word.

Originally posted by CinLung
He likes it, the other "he" likes it to, so it is ok?

I doesn�t matter what �he� likes, just because �he� likes it doesn�t make it acceptable to God. God has already given his word to mankind it is our freewill to follow or abandon his instructions.

Originally posted by CinLung
"They must put to death." So Bible is teaching killing? By order from God, or by order from someone who wrote those sentences in Bible? Christian shall kill gays, and then pour their blood onto their heads?

What a verse. How about lesbian? Chop off their head?

Remember this was written in the Old Testament, these sins were punishable by death according to Gods laws. However Jesus died on the cross for all sin for all time, so the price of these sins has already been paid by the love and sacrifice of the lord.

Originally posted by CinLung
I did not see a man can have sexual relations with animal or not. I suppose it is a YES.

Cute.

Originally posted by MKugs
If God disowns Gays, then why would he have created them? If all children, our Gods children?

He gave us freewill. It's our choice to follow Gods word or abandon it.

He gave us freewill. It's our choice to follow Gods word or abandon it.


But the Catholic religion believes that God gives us those words ans those thoughts. Why would he give you choice, if he/she doesn't "accept" it?

Originally posted by TACHYON
Ok religion aside (i myslef am agaisnt gays, and gay marriage), scientifically being gay does not provide for the best interest of Nature and evolution. The species ceases to exist.It is a scientific fact that certain species of salamaders living in a same sex environment mutate into the other sex. Sexual reproduction is in evolutions interest for higher level organisms. If you want to be gay fine, just dont hit on me. Peace

I was going to respond about your point, but jezebel said it best already. In fact, gays even existing could be in the best interest of nature and evolution, because that's usually a sizable part of the population that won't be reproducing (even tho with scientific advances....). In a world with rising populations and limited resources, it's probably better that we reproduce less than the rate we are going at right now.

Originally posted by kinglizard
He gave us freewill. It's our choice to follow Gods word or abandon it.

Sorry, that's a load of BS in my opinion. Short of God himself coming down and telling me that he created me gay, but didn't really want me to actually BE gay, I will never buy into that. People have already posted their thoughts debunking the bible passages you have been quoting. At worst, it's open for interpretation considering the debate over it. So you're saying I should go against the one thing I am for sure about in my life ... something that I know I can never change ... simply because you say so? And you pull some debateable quotes from a manmade creation and use that as your proof? Like I said, I'm not buying it. Technically it's a lose-lose situation anyway. I know I'm gay, nothing is ever gonna change that. So if I simply be who I am, I'm damned from what you say. But what if I play straight, have kids etc. Then in the afterlife, God says, "I made you gay, (insert reason why here), why did you go against how I made you?" So, whatever.

I thought about it for awhile when I was younger, and it really boils down to being true to other people who really have no clue what God is really thinking, or why he does certain things, or be true to myself and who I am. It's a pretty simple decision in my opinion. I don't believe God would create me a certain way, an unchangeable way (I can date girls but I'll never have feelings for them like I would a guy, NEVER), then condemn me for acting that way.

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by W_HAMILTON]

Even Paul wrote of the wickedness of homosexuality.

Romans 1:18-29

God's Wrath Against Mankind

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

W_HAMILTON,

Please don�t take my words as an attack on your person. This is a discussion concerning the bible and the words within it dealing with homosexuality. I�m not attempting to twist words to validate some anti-homosexual agenda. I love you as I do all of Gods children.

God Bless

I wish to GOD this thread would die. I know I'm not helping it by adding to the thread. I just don't see how this thread and the continued bantering are relevant to this site. Is there a way to put a "thread" on ignore?

Originally posted by Losonczy
I just don't see how this thread and the continued bantering are relevant to this site. Is there a way to put a "thread" on ignore?

How is quoting the bible and attempting to understand its message considered "bantering"?

I think that it is all a bunch of bull, made up so that people will not turn to other religions. When being gay wasn't socially acceptable the Bible was 'right' but now that it is the Christians are trying to make God semm like a good guy. Thats what it really is

Originally posted by hockey_crazy
I think that it is all a bunch of bull, made up so that people will not turn to other religions. When being gay wasn't socially acceptable the Bible was 'right' but now that it is the Christians are trying to make God semm like a good guy. Thats what it really is

Will you elaborate; I'm having a difficult time following your thoughts.

Yeah I guess you're right, that's what the thread is about, but I still wanted to make my comments. And I would like an answer to my question. About how, if I was created gay, or 'made' that way or whatever by something that happened early in my childhood, why would God condemn me over that? If it's something you can't change?

Might not really belong in this thread either, but since some others are making comments about it, I'll say my piece. Personally, I don't believe in organized religion really. I don't believe God would put people on this earth who are gay if he was just going to condemn them to hell for being who they are. I don't believe God would condemn people for practicing other religions, when they are brought up on those other religions and never know a thing about Christianity. I could go on and on. Heck, I'm not even sure there is a God (no one can really be sure). I know I hope there is. But no one knows who he is, or what he wants, or how he views people, so I don't think it's fair to pass judgement on people (I'm not talking specifically about you kinglizard, just in general). Especially when we do so with the basis being religion, or "God's word."

Originally posted by TACHYON
Ok religion aside (i myslef am agaisnt gays, and gay marriage), scientifically being gay does not provide for the best interest of Nature and evolution. The species ceases to exist.It is a scientific fact that certain species of salamaders living in a same sex environment mutate into the other sex. Sexual reproduction is in evolutions interest for higher level organisms. If you want to be gay fine, just dont hit on me. Peace

And then there's the issue of overpopulation in the world. Perhaps homosexuality is natures response to funnel off some of the overpopulation. It could be. Stranger things have happened then nature adapting to give us what we need whether we know it or not.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
And I would like an answer to my question. About how, if I was created gay, or 'made' that way or whatever by something that happened early in my childhood, why would God condemn me over that? If it's something you can't change?

It�s a difficult to find an answer. Usually when I debate I will attempt to �put myself in the other persons shoes� in an attempt to understand that persons viewpoint. To be honest, in this case I would likely feel exactly the same as you. I would feel abandoned and persecuted by God because he has labels me a sinner without having a choice in my actions or in this case who I loved.

So I comes down to being born this way or having chose this type of lifestyle. If we believe the bible is the word of god then it must be a choice, weather forced on you by events in childhood or evolved during adulthood the choice was likely yours or your parents. If you were born gay then God is not fair in condemning your actions.

I just don�t know what to say. All I know is it�s not my place to judge.

what's is so wrong with believing in the Bible?

Answer that question.




The problem is too many people of the Christian Faith assume that there is only one Bible. There are more definitions for the word bible than the
Christian one. This wolrd is filled is different Holy books and religious beliefs. You do not have the corner on the market.

Besides, as far as the story about Sodom and Gomorrah, if you are going to believe that it is telling you that homosexuality is wrong then you'd better start believing that it is a good thing to offer your two virgin daughters up to be raped because that is exactly what Lot did. And he is called a man of God!

This story is a favorite of some Christians who seem SOOOOO obsessed with homosexuality! What is it with some Christians and homosexuality???? Why don't you go work at a soup kitchen or something? Do something positive!

There is a correlation between brain structure and sexual orientation. Studies have shown that the cell group INAH is larger in heterosexual males than homosexuals.
So here's a question for all you religious people. How can "god" look down on someone when homosexuality is biological and the individual can't help what gender they are attracted to?