For all of the Bush Haters....

Ocelot,

I think you need to be just as concerned with those that were involved and for which you have no clue as of yet, not even an inkling.

It is the unknown that will get you.

Do you understand?

Originally posted by Ocelot
Some Links to the 9/11 Conspiracy.

1) "Oh Lucy! - You Gotta Lotta 'Splainin To Do" - A TIMELINE SURROUNDING SEPTEMBER 11TH - IF CIA AND THE GOVERNMENT WEREN'T INVOLVED IN THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS WHAT WERE THEY DOING?
www.fromthewilderness.com...

2) www.whatreallyhappened.com...
Contains a Large collection of documents.

Those are great articles, Ocelot! Wealth of information.

It's not just the president that makes the bad decisions. He's just the frontman. Cheney and Rumsfeld really run the show, and they're the same MF's that were in charge of covering up the brainwashing and drug experiments. This is documented truth. Now these MF's are in charge of our country???

While aides to Gerald Ford, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney helped cover up the background to the death of CIA scientist, Frank Olson who fell from a 10th floor window in 1953, not long after he had been classified as a potential security risk.

100777.com...
www.gulufuture.com...


[Edited on 11-18-2003 by Satyr]

We would be on the way to friendly relations as it was when Clinton was in office. Now it is worsened and it doesn't help when Bush calls Kim Jong Il a pigmy

friendly relations being giving away military secrets?

I would like to think that if it was Gore and not Bush we would all have free tuna, but alas that will stay a cats dream.

I definately think 60% of the world wouldn't hate the US.... we wouldn't have been kicked off the council...the stock market would be better... and I wouldv'e gotten more of a raise.

What about Nader vs Bush n Gore?

I still say that Bush has been, is being a better president than Gore.

There was / is just something about Gore that I didn't like. I can't explain it. It's almost like I get a feeling that he isn't ... well.. Human.

Yeah that's it.. Al Gore is an Alien! Bush found this out and directed the NWO to fix the election so that he would win and the aliens couldn't take over just yet.

we'll have to wait until 2012 now !!!

Originally posted by elevatedone
I still say that Bush has been, is being a better president than Gore.

There was / is just something about Gore that I didn't like. I can't explain it. It's almost like I get a feeling that he isn't ... well.. Human.

Yeah that's it.. Al Gore is an Alien! Bush found this out and directed the NWO to fix the election so that he would win and the aliens couldn't take over just yet.

we'll have to wait until 2012 now !!!

Oh come on, now! ALGORE is too a human! He was tainted by super-corrupt Klinton. He should never have allied himself with that redneck douche bag.

Originally posted by THENEO
I minored in political science in university and I obtained an 'A' in every poly sci course I ever took.

I think I know what a communist is.

I have read the communist manifesto.

I know that Hitler called his party socialists in the beginning then later became fascists.

I predict that they will do it the same way again.

You are a pawn for them with every other left leaning person especially if you are willing to compromise the power of the US in order to make everyone else happy.

boo hoo!

somebody doesn't like me!

Communism in a nutshell: The state owns and controls all of a nation's assets, and collects the nation's GDP, redistributing it equally amongst the poulation.

Compare this to American capitalism. The democrats are a long way away from communism, or even true socialism. America will always be capitalist, the people who are really in power wouldn't have it any other way.

The democrats as far as I know, only have socialist leanings as concerns social policies. And they don't try to deny this.

As for your point on Hitler misleading the German people, the Nazi Party's full name was The National Socialist German Workers' Party. This vague and all encompassing name was designed to appeal to a wide range of people from all walks of life. However, the party certainly did not have something for everyone.

The Nazis never had socialist aims, as was made clear by their propaganda and Hitler's book "Mein Kampf". Between 1929 and 1933 the SA arrested, beat up and murdered thousands of communists and publicly denounced them. Hitler spoke of "destroying the disease from the East", Bolshevism.

The Nazis were extreme right wing nationalists and capitalists. No attempt was ever made to hide this. I fail to see how this can be compared to the democrats.

Technically, being further right than the democrats, the Republicans are closer to fascism. And Bush's foreign policy is very similar to Hitler's - illegal invasion and occupation, the use of lap dog allies to give an air of credibility...and a thirst for oil.

Oh, and I would be more than happy to compromise US power. I'm from this place called abroad...ever been here? America is hated because it disregards the rest of the world in an attempt to make itself more prosperous, depsite having enormous influence and power. The US is irresponsible. No need to cry, I do like you, but I despise your government.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad

Originally posted by THENEO
I minored in political science in university and I obtained an 'A' in every poly sci course I ever took.

I think I know what a communist is.

I have read the communist manifesto.

I know that Hitler called his party socialists in the beginning then later became fascists.

I predict that they will do it the same way again.

You are a pawn for them with every other left leaning person especially if you are willing to compromise the power of the US in order to make everyone else happy.

boo hoo!

somebody doesn't like me!

Communism in a nutshell: The state owns and controls all of a nation's assets, and collects the nation's GDP, redistributing it equally amongst the poulation.

Compare this to American capitalism. The democrats are a long way away from communism, or even true socialism. America will always be capitalist, the people who are really in power wouldn't have it any other way.

The democrats as far as I know, only have socialist leanings as concerns social policies. And they don't try to deny this.

As for your point on Hitler misleading the German people, the Nazi Party's full name was The National Socialist German Workers' Party. This vague and all encompassing name was designed to appeal to a wide range of people from all walks of life. However, the party certainly did not have something for everyone.

The Nazis never had socialist aims, as was made clear by their propaganda and Hitler's book "Mein Kampf". Between 1929 and 1933 the SA arrested, beat up and murdered thousands of communists and publicly denounced them. Hitler spoke of "destroying the disease from the East", Bolshevism.

The Nazis were extreme right wing nationalists and capitalists. No attempt was ever made to hide this. I fail to see how this can be compared to the democrats.

Technically, being further right than the democrats, the Republicans are closer to fascism. And Bush's foreign policy is very similar to Hitler's - illegal invasion and occupation, the use of lap dog allies to give an air of credibility...and a thirst for oil.

Oh, and I would be more than happy to compromise US power. I'm from this place called abroad...ever been here? America is hated because it disregards the rest of the world in an attempt to make itself more prosperous, depsite having enormous influence and power. The US is irresponsible. No need to cry, I do like you, but I despise your government.

And we have a knock-out, folks! Well said, Cider.

Originally posted by Ocelot

Originally posted by elevatedone

from : Ocelot

As for Osama he will never be caught. He is being protected by the CIA. He was and I still think he is a CIA Asset.

How did you come up with this one. Never heard this angle before ?

I believe that 9/11 would have happened regardless of who is/was in office. I still believe that yes, we (usa) knew something was coming, but not what, who or when.

OMG dude dont you know anything? Ossama was funded with money and weapons during the 80's by the US Gov. and CIA when afganistan was in war with the russians. And remember Saddam was also our "friend" as the US provided Iraq with BIO WEAPONS and lots of $$$ when Saddam was at War with Iran. Read up on your history dude. I repeat Saddam and Ossama will never be caught. They are being protected. After all who is the US going to blame future terrorist attacks on if Ossama and Saddam are caught. They are need them to be out there in order to have scapegoats for future "staged" terrorists attacks.

[Edited on 18-11-2003 by Ocelot]

you believe the USA will totaly obliterate one of its own cities killing millions instantly?

Of course they would, if it served their purpose. Read Operation Northwoods if you don't believe it.


April 30, 2001


In his new expos� of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled �Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba� was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake �Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,� including �sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),� faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a �Remember the Maine� incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods �may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.�
www.gwu.edu...

First of all. Kudos again to Cider. I may not agree with all of your points of view but I always appreciate your posts and am still amazed by your age!!

Now, as far as the topic here goes. It's hard to say which would have handled it better. I have seen and read so much about 9/11 on both sides that I can't yet make a solid decision on who was truly responsible for what happened. Worse, there are more layers to the whole event than any onion on the planet.
For instance: The original PNAC documentation is quite damning in itself. Strange how NONE of the major media has even bothered reporting any of it.
At the same time there has been a MAJOR anti U.S. sentiment in the mid-east for much longer than the current admin. has been in place.

I think if it happened with Gore in office Afghanistan still would have been invaded. There was a blood lust in this country that I have never seen in my lifetime. I would guess the last time it happened was Pearl Harbor (also shady). The people basically demanded revenge without saying so. Any president would have had no choice.

Osama?
Well, I'm just bummed that Clinton screwed the pooch on him in the first place. Gore would have done little about Osama if 9/11 did not happen IMO.

Iraq?
No way Gore would have gone into Iraq for the currently stated reasons by the Administration without a serious violation of intl. law or a UN mandate.

North Korea

He would have been completely duped by the pygmy and North korea would have about ten ICBMs pointed at us with nukes aboard. North Korea and Communist Asia overall are the biggest area of concern in my mind and I think it's a VERY bad idea to give in to demands from piss ant regimes in what amounts to national extortion. Giving missile and nuclear technology to our adversaries is a bad idea!

So, thats my take on it all.

Originally posted by Fry2
North Korea

He would have been completely duped by the pygmy and North korea would have about ten ICBMs pointed at us with nukes aboard. North Korea and Communist Asia overall are the biggest area of concern in my mind and I think it's a VERY bad idea to give in to demands from piss ant regimes in what amounts to national extortion. Giving missile and nuclear technology to our adversaries is a bad idea!

Thanks for the kudos Fry...

On North Korea, I think you are right, in that a less aggressive leader than Bush would not be able to handle the regime there. Kim Yong Il has seen what Bush did in Iraq, and he knows the US would not tolerate aggressive behaviour.

Even though a war in Korea would be devastating to both sides, the threat of war is in itself a deterrant. It's a difficult situation to be in, and the current US administration has been rightly cautious, but at the same time, stood firm. This is the probably the best, and the only safe approach.

Did you know George Bush was in with Esso who donated over $2,000,000 to his party? and that Gore and Bush had just about the same policies but which monkey was educated? guess?
Something tells me im gonna get a beating for this...eep!

[Edited on 25-11-1989 by Monk]

Pull the troops out and bring them home to use as a rotation force for Iraq.

Let South and North Korea engage in their sunshine policy.

Nuke 'em to hell and back if they get froggy.