Survival Rifle

reply to post by Wotan


Wotan I have version of that rifle. It is very compact but accuracy tends to suffer. Tha is why I recommend the Marlin Papoose. It is a little larger but reliability and accuracy are much improved.

respectfully
reluctantpawn

Wanted to get everyone's thoughts on a recent selection I made and one I am looking at.

I bought a Russian M44 that uses 7.62x54R for protection. For those that don't know, this comes equipped with a bayonet standard. Now, I thought it being a WW2 assault rifle, it would be an excellent choice as it was an all around weapon used for infantry and/or snipers... What I didn't realize is how powerful it is.

The slug from an M44 has as much energy at 300 yards as a .44 magnum at point blank range. Basically, if I had to use this in my house it would go through the intruder, every wall in the house and through my neighbors house. It also has a very loud report.

The M44 would be excellent out in the open for protection from a distance and that is what my main reason for having it is.

I am looking for something realiable, quieter and easy to use for hunting purposes in situation x, that my wife could also use if need be. The M44 would leave her bruised and battered.

For this purpose I was thinking of a .22 long rifle. Would someone give me their opinion of this rifle? Here is the link: www.ableammo.com...

The .22 in question is light weight, carries 11 rounds, bolt action for easy maintenance and something my wife could carry & shoot easily.

Thanks for the thoughts!

[edit on 7/3/2008 by blackbox]

M44 is not an assault rifle. it's bolt action battlerifle. It's accurate out to 500m with a scope. YOur wife CAN shoot it just like every adult. It's recoil is not prohibitive, and if it is i suggest fitting a muzzle brake or preferably a supressor to it.

It's not a plinker nor a CQB weapon, but it's very good at what it was designed to do. That is killing men at 50-500m while being handy to carry in trucks or APCs.

For survival i'd still suggest the M31 model of the mosin nagant as it has a longer barrel, thus taking more energy from the 54R cartridge than the M44. It also has slightly smaller muzzle blast and recoil.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by northwolf]

Originally posted by northwolf
M44 is not an assault rifle. it's bolt action battlerifle. It's accurate out to 500m with a scope. YOur wife CAN shoot it just like every adult. It's recoil is not prohibitive, and if it is i suggest fitting a muzzle brake or preferably a supressor to it.

It's not a plinker nor a CQB weapon, but it's very good at what it was designed to do. That is killing men at 50-500m while being handy to carry in trucks or APCs.

For survival i'd still suggest the M31 model of the mosin nagant as it has a longer barrel, thus taking more energy from the 54R cartridge than the M44. It also has slightly smaller muzzle blast and recoil.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by northwolf]

Thank you for correcting my terminology. And you are right, my wife COULD use it, but she is much more comfortable with a weapon that isn't quite as imposing.

Thoughts on the .22 long rifle I linked to?

It looked like a decen .22LR, can't comment more as i have no experience with that particular model. A .22LR that constantly shoots under 10mm groups at 50m is a good rifle for all purposes... But under 15mm is still more than enough for hunting. Reliable feeding should be checked with all .22LR guns, it may and usually does vary with each specimen and even some of the most prestigious guns in that caliber experience feeding problems every now and then.

reply to post by blackbox


Great for small game. the big rifle will save the day when you need a deer elk or moose. Don't shoot it in the house if you ever want your ears to work again.

I have not read the full thread so pardon if I duplicate items already brought up.

30-06 bolt gun with .32 acp chamber insert. Mine makes less noise than a .222lr with the .32's and makes about 1000fps with the 71 gr bullets. shoots about 10" below zero compared with the 165 gr 06 loads. These can be found for .303 brit. and .308 also. Best is used in a bolt gun that is a push feed or a single shot.

I did see the savage model 24 brought up, mine is .223 over 12 gau. I have a 2.5 x scope on it and is about 1 1/2 " shooter at 100 yds. I have taken a large number of animals with this. 64 gr. winchester power points will take deer cleanly at 150 yds. The scope is a little bit of a drag on wing shooting but helps on things on the ground.

Marlin 1894 in .357 mag. should be good to 100 yds on small deer, I have not tried it yet however. With hard cast bullets 38 specials shoot good too. These can be used on small game with about the same or less damage than a .22 lr. hollow point.

44 mag rifle, with hard cast bullets works good on the small stuff. With 270 gr. speer bullets will give at least 20" of pen. on deer at 120 yds. The shot loads for the 44 mag do not do well past about 5 yds.

I, personally, would have an M16-a4. They weigh about 8 lbs. and are highly accurate. They are silencer-capable, and can carry up to 100 rounds per mag. I also would carry a Barrett .50 cal. sniper, for picking off disaster survivors. A Deagle doesn't sound bad either... In the case of zombies, or any other mind-controlling parasites, tou can always lug around a minigun, or just drive a turreted Humvee and have a friend in the turret, but that's beyond the point. Anyways, who wouldn't leave home without the usual RPG?

Prob best weapon,for me at least
www.militaryfactory.com...
Franchi SPAS-12 - Combat Shotgun


[edit on 16-11-2008 by all2human]

AR 15's

Reasons:

1. Massive recent sales makes it common and easy to get parts for, including from military personel.
   
2. Design for combat but can be used for hunting
   
3. Accurate enough for hunting and combat, suprior accuracy over AK's, Mini 14's
   
4. Low Recoil (in .223, don't get 308 versions) so women and children can also fire it. Try having your wife or child shoot your hunting rifle, after 2 shoots they won't be able to hit the side of a barn.
   
5. Chambered in .223 it will be one of the most common rounds available in SHTF situations. With a chamber insert, can fire 22lr or 22 wm
   
6. Surplus magazines, mag pouches, slings, accessories common and cheap
   
7. Military manuals including markmanship, cleaning, maintenance available on internet
   

There's other great guns out there and I agree there are more reliable, easier to clean weapons to be had but, none offer everything listed above as easy or cheap as an AR. Rifle is more expensive but, you'll save money on mags and accessories.

I've been a Survivalist for 38 years. I practice living off of the land in the Swamps and Coastal regions of the Deep South. I carry nothing with me except the clothes on my back. It's taken me years to learn how to make a flint knife, bow and arrows, traps, shelter, fire, etc. I can spend 60 days in a swamp and gain weight. I can make my own medicines and even antibiotics. I can survive without a firearm but a good 22 MAG lever action rifle with a waterproof scope would make things a lot easier. Forget about any firearm other than a 22 unless you have stashed away a few thousand rounds. I've killed many deer with a 22 MAG and the ammo is cheap, lightweight and easy to carry 1000 rounds. I can make a silencer with an old beer can and Palmetto fronds. A 22 cal long barreled pistol would be nice to have as well. If needed and if you happened a have a few, 12 gauge shotgun shells can easily be made into anti-personnel landmines with a beer can, a nail and a few natural ingredients. I killed a huge Black Bear with one. Do yourself a favor and start practicing (and reading) Survival tactics. Start with books about edible wild plants in your area and poison mushrooms (they make great poison tipped spikes for hidden traps)

Savage makes a model 24, it's an overunder,it comes in quite a few variations either a 410/20ga./12ga/ on the bottom and anything from a 22 to a 30-30 on top for an all around one gun it's hard to beat. I used one for years as a trapping gun, Ive probably killed more game with that gun than any other I've owned, and thats saying alot,,,

ONE GUN ONLY...for "survival" (ie, hunting and defense) would have to be a 12 ga shotgun. You can carry a variety of loads (from birdshot to buckshot to sabot slugs to even exotic self defense rounds....and the barrel size and report noise can be more intimidating than small to medium calibre rifles. So you can hunt everything from small birds to large deer and still chase away intruders....the only draw back would be true long distance but with a scope & shooting slugs you can get out there.

Gee. One weapon? .22 bolt action for reliability, accuracy, simplicity. You can defend yourself with a .22, but I would hate to have to do so.

If the SHTF, in no time at all, you're going to have lots of animals whose populations are going to really blossom. Some big animals. Some two-legged animals.

Two firearms? .22 bolt action rifle and .12 guage pump shotgun.

Three firearms? .22 bolt action rifle, .308 pump rifle, and .12 guage pump shotgun.

In addition, I'd have a simple longbow, tactical hatchet, 4-4.5 foot spears carried in quiver, and of course the SOG recon knife.

i would use a 9mm/45 acp pistol and a 308 or 30-06 bolt action or pump rifle. a 22 would be good to. plus a 12 guage and your ready.

Doesn't anyone like the springfield M1A???

reply to post by tarpon68


I like them very much. They have been mentioned by e few others and me in this thread. namely the SOCOM. but that will start the whole caliber debate all over again.

point is, its a survival rifle, i.e u got to carry it and ammo day after day
so .22 with silencer and sub sonic ammo
small game are the go, quick to prepare and plentifull.
bigger stuff if u have a way too preserve will drop too with a brain shot.

as for supposed bad guys, if there are any, and they haven,t starved to death, then even a half dozen .22 slugs up the bum will change their mind.

a 500round brick weighs less then some big 20 centrefire rounds.

though sounds like a lot of guys with big guns going to be very hungry after a few months...........................................

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: I would have to go with my grandfathers (fathers side) good old .303 Lee Enfield Rifle Mrk III with bayonet and the equipment and resources he had to make bullets for it. Its a war capable rifle and can kill a man at 500+ meters and has armor penetrating capacity and due to its high muzzle velocity and 180 grain bullet, it tends not to deflect in wind or foliage. Also I love the iron sights as opposed to fancy optics for their rugged long term survivability. Its got the accurate long distance standoff large game kill factor that I am looking for in a survival rifle. It's rapport is quite telling but at the ranges and rate of fire I would be using it and the times, environment and prey I would use it on would hopefully reduce the need for a quick egress. The construction of the Mrk III is amazingly solid and robust and it can easily be used as a club or a pike/spear with the bayonet attached in close combat and can easily be fired from the hip for close range snapshot reaction shooting. Its a single shot bolt action 10 shot box magazine fed rifle and although I would prefer something semi-auto in nature the SMLE MrkIII can produce a high sustained rate of accurate fire in the hands of a skilled marksman. (The current world record for aimed bolt-action fire was set in 1914 by a musketry instructor in the British Army — Sergeant Instructor Snoxall — who placed 38 rounds into a 12 inch wide target at 300 yards (270 m) in one minute. ) And in a SHTF situation bullets might not be as easy to come by as people may think, so a conserve what you got and recycle and build your own ammo is a MUST! So say you got "emily" and 3 x 10 round clips and the skills, tools and resources to say replace a clip's worth of bullets in an hour (I know thats ages but SHTF surviving may just fubah you a bit) and you have enough on hand resources for say 12hrs of ammo production stored at your bug-out cache, thats 150 bullets in total and you've got to make that last till you can resupply! Then say you average a dog or pig size kill 1/wk then thats just under 3yrs of ammo before you run dry. Double the size of your prey and have long term preservation and storage available and suddenly your ammo use for large game will become less and less. Here in Australia the most ubiquitous large animal aside from man is the kangaroo and they are easily man sized and some of the big reds..well their called big reds for a reason but locally the plain old grey kangaroo are dime a dozen so I hopefully wouldn't have to resort to any kind of human wetworks for my main source of protein. The Jungle versions of the Lee Enfield are also tried and battle tested and I wouldn't mind one of these.

Personal Disclosure: Loved the combo rifle/shotguns of all types! Also really Loved the small 3 shot HD shotgun. I agree fully with the poster your weapon/s of choice depend on how and where you bug-out to. I've chosen to bug-out to my parents 100 acre property 100 km south of the city I live in.
Its easily accessible to a local with a 20-25kg backpack (5ltr camelbag) + 5kg Gun and ammo and a mountain bike in about 48hrs (quicker if motorized). But its surrounded on 3 sides by rather unfriendly (to outsiders) armed farmers who would have to be put out of action before anybody would get to me and as for the 4th side...well thats all national nature reserve and my blind looks directly out over the whole electric fenceline between the 2 properties. I wouldn't use a small .22 caliber rifle for multiple reasons although I would fully recommend them for any learner or persons with small and or slight builds and I would also recommend an air powered rifle as smokeless gunpowder may just be a little hard to come by. 1st reason I wouldn't use it is because a lot of you have been suggesting it and I would want something that stands off a bit more with slightly more punch to counteract that. Secondly since the .22 and other such ubiquitous calibers are apparently going to be a dime a dozen after the SHTF then I will have no problems recycling them into a bigger .303 caliber, powder and all!!!. You all seem to require this small caliber gun and ammo to shoot small game and I suggest a better way to do this is to set snare traps for rabbits and net traps for small to medium sized birds and save your ammo for game that is medium dog sized or larger (in my case roo's oh and of course MAN!). In any survival SHTF bug-out scenario your going to need a fresh supply of water and usually that means fishing potential. So if you can fish then why shoot and if you can trap, net and snare small game then why shoot, and if you can bow,spear and club these animals (takes a very determined expert who should also be quite a bit hungry) then why shoot. Especially a small common round that can be easily (but I agree...not for some persons but aren't we talking about being survival EXPERTS here?) recycled into higher calibers that have greater range and knockdown effectiveness.
I too love the idea of shotguns as an all round multipurpose (non lethal bean bag rounds for example) close combat (i.e. 50 meters or less) and survival weapon and I myself would try and tool up with a couple of good old 12 gauge double barreled sawn off shotguns with 1 barrel loaded with solid and the other barrel loaded with buckshot. Just point and pull both triggers at once and worries all shredded! I have heard jokes about sawn offs being sawn down so far that the shotgun shells actually stuck out of the barrels and also this anecdote from an old rural stockman my grandfather (yes the same one) told me a story about...he shot a pig in the skull with a solid slug from a 410 and it ricocheted off and made the pig really mad but a small .22 put a nice hole in its head and killed it dead. The area of the skull hit by the solid slug was all spider webbed with fractures but not breached in any way. Sounded bunkum to me

reply to post by blackbox


I bought for my twins (12 years old) 2 Marlin mod. 795 simi autos ,22.cal, with ten round clip. They came with scope and mounts. $149.oo each.There great guns. For an all around survival rifle,if I had to pick only one it would be my Marlin mod. 25mn, in 22.mag.