I'd like to solicit thoughts on what rifle (caliber) would you like to have/use in a survival situation.

My thoughts...

1) In a survival situation, you might not want a rifle with a loud report to bring notice from hostile forces, or locals who may try to rob you out of their own desperate situation.

2) You might not need a large caliber rifle for large game, like deer; you might not be able to use all the meat in a timely manner, and might not be able to store or preserve much of it.

I would think that the main game would be birds, squirrels, and hares, thus you want something to kill your game, but not destroy edible parts.

This would lead me to:
- an air rifle
- a .22LR
- a .22 Mag.

Now finding, buying or scrounging for pellets might be difficult, and there are various pellet calibers, the common .177 caliber, the less common .22 caliber, or even the .20 cal. (5mm).

The .22 Mag. can take bigger game with a well-placed shot, and has less of a report than (most?) small centerfire cartridges. This would be my number 2 rifle.

My first choice would be a rifle chambered for the .22LR - it can harvest the small animals listed above and still leave you with something. Ammo can be found virtually everywhere, and you can carry a lot of it easily. The report is not too loud, and you might be able to make a crude silencer for it.

Your thoughts?..

One aspect I would strive for is consistency. If you have a 9mm handgun, perhaps look at a rifle that you can chamber with the same round. It would simplfy your logistics.

Diversity is the key to survival, and having several mainstream caliber weapons gives yo the best chance. A .22LR and 12 gauge shotgun are absolute musts. The prevalence of these calibers give you the best opportunity of continued use of you survival weapon choices. Beyond that, other "common" calibers are good to have, .38/.357 mag, .223 Rem(5.56mm), .30-30. .30-06, .308 Win (7.62 NATO), 7.62x39, 9mm, .45 ACP.

Most importantly, there's no room for "exotics" and "wildcat" calibers...

A 410 shotgun would be my first choice. I used one growing up on every hunt. Now my son uses the same gun. It throws a slug fairly well but excells IMO at small game with 5 or 6 shot. They are louder then a 22 but it is IMO a much more verstial gun. Side arm wise I carry a 9mm for now the gun was a gift and shells are everyware. If your looking for a little larger caliber I would have to say for me anyway A mini 14 also known as a M14 is one of my favorites.


[edit on 13-12-2006 by angryamerican]

Unless you can find an extremely powerful airsoft rifle which would cost a butt load and only kills small little birds. Your rifle is you best bet or get a bow which are perfect for hunting because their silent and you can reuse the arrows...A rifle is limited with how much ammo you bought but if you want a real rifle go with Winchesters' .243 lever action rifle...powerful but it gets the job done.

I love the Springfield M1903 series, they were old sniper rifles so you can hunt with them really well. They are very rugged and will keep shooting on target. They shoot a 30-06 cartridge so the ammo should be plentiful. I also like shotguns they are a very versitle weapon. I also like the 22 mag carbines, the 22mag is a nice round thats not too terribly loud.

I'd vote for the lever action 22L.

Range is better than a shotgun, and much quieter. Also, most american police view it as a sporting rifle, rather than as a 'weapon.'

I used to have a revolver that was chambered 22L. Perfect companion for hunting under . . . morally ambivalent conditions, say in a survival scenario.

Also, the barrel will fit in a pipe-threading machine.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by dr_strangecraft]

We have two handguns - glocks - 9 mil and short 45. My husband has talked about a cross bow. As of yet we don't have a shot gun. I didn't realize that shot guns could take the same ammunition as hand guns. that's very good information to know!

The crossbow sounds like a good idea. Maybe a heavy compound bow.

I like the idea of keeping a muzzle loader around just in case. You may not always be able to find bullets for your center fire rifles but it isnt very hard to find or make some stones and a combustable material to mimic black powder.

It totally depends on your usage, and what the scenario is.

Here is how I would prepare for a huge disaster when it comes to firearms:

1) Pump-action shotgun with a variety of rounds. Buckshot is highly effective for defense- it would not be good for bird hunting. Slug rounds and birdshot might be more preferable for shooting game. For defense, get buckshot.

2) I like .45 cal pistols; 9mm might be more common. Use your judgement.

3) 5.56 weapon or 7.62 weapon. What are you hunting? Food? Defense? Learn about safety and line of fire- weapons of this caliber can go through many regular walls and harm innocents by mistake. You are responsible for every round you fire, and you can't take back bullets. 5.56 might be more common in America, but an AK-47 family type rifle chambered in 7.62 requires much less cleaning than a typical M16/M4 family type weapon. Check your local laws, and make a decision.

4) A .22 is an excellent round, but it will not easily kill an intruder or enemy and is not effective for killing food bigger than a squirrel or varmit.

Something in a 5.56 and a 7.62 longguns because that is what military will be using and LEO. So I'll be havin' an AR. Get one that is 1MOA or less.

Now hand guns, well military is still on the 9mm for the most part and LEO is all over the place 9mm, 40, 45, 357sig maybe a few wheel guns out there still in 38 spiecal and .357 mag.

Pick the one you can hit CM with. I'll hang onto my Glocks in 9mm and .40 and my single action .357,drawitsuperfasthogleg.

Shotgun 12g, very common.

Also, on your weapons learn how to take them down for repairs and major cleaning.

Roper

I'm not sure an airsoft rifle would hang together in a survival situation.
Plus, they're more complex than say a 22 LR.

Since you're after small game for survival and not so much for protection, take a look at Ruger's 9 1/2" barrel 22LR/22 Mag single action revolver.

You can fire very quiet shorts out of these - provided you can find them - and the 22 Mag could work as a defensive weapon.

The long barrel makes for good accuracy, not so much due to the higher bullet speed from longer barrels - up to a point - but due to the longer sight radius.
An important consideration for those with older eyes.
As we age - and I'm sure most of you know this - we are less able to focus on rear sight, front sight and target.
Especially so with a short barrel weapon.

I've done quite well at turkey shoots with my 9 1/2" barrel Ruger, not due to I'm such a terrific shot, rather the long barrel makes sighting and holding easy.
I nicknamed this pistol, "my pocket rifle" many years ago and the name fits well.

If you deign not to carry the extra cylinder for 22LR, you can fire 22 WRF's - also known as 22 Remington Special.
These rounds can be found at most gun shops and you'll find the acoustic signature from them falls between the 22 LR a 22 Mag.

As a basis for comparison, the three rounds fired in similar, same length barrel rifles have an average bullet speed of:
22 LR = 1100 FPS.
22 WRF = 1600 FPS.
22 Mag = 2000 FPS.

Bullet weights are:
22LR = 37 - 40 grains - (High Velocity specialty rounds can weigh down to 32 grains and perhaps lighter although some hold the opinion these lighter weights don't do quite the job on small game the heavier rimfire rounds do.

22 WRF = 45 grains.
22 Mag = 45 grains for the solid point and the hollow points are a bit lighter.
Either of the 22 Mag rounds would be adequate.

The 9 1/2" barrel packs away in most packs with no problems - day pack or frame pack - and would fit in some fanny packs.

One of the hunting magazines reported a few years back that an Alaskan trapper running a trap line and carrying a 22 Mag rifle - Winchester 9422M I believe - was able to put down a medium sized Grizzly.
Not a job I would want to undertake, but . . . when the 22 Mag is all you got....

Ill stick with my M70 Ak47 Yugo and Glock .40 . The Yugo Ak has proved itself in many harsh situations to withstand weather and will drop anything from a bear to a dear. The Glock IMHO is a must have as far as pistols go for any outdoor excursion. You drop it in the water, no biggie just pick it up and keep going.

While I'm not sure it would be my #1 choice, a .22LR would be on my list. As rifles go, its quiet, dependable and even though not advisable, can be used effectively against larger game and in self defense with well placed shots if necessary. An added benefit? Its dirt cheap. One could easily stockpile a lifetime's worth of several thousand rounds of .22LR ammunition for a few hundred dollars and never have to worry about scavenging for ammo. And a 500 round box of .22LR rounds is about the same size as a 25 round box of 12 gauge shotgun shells and its lighter, too. And you probably aren't going to scare the locals by carrying one around, either. Meanwhile, that AR-15 or AK-47 is an attention grabber and could get you shot on sight. I'd recommend having one, but not for everyday use.

Myself, I would probably choose a lever action rifle chambered in the same round as my handgun for ammunition commonality. That likely means a .357, .44 or 9mm. As an added benefit, all three rounds are much cheaper than centerfire rifle rounds and are widely available and used in the US. The ammunition is smaller and more easily transported than rifle rounds as well. All are powerful enough to take large game to 100 yards or more, yet the two smaller rounds won't vaporize small game. They are not quite ideal for self-defense, but most models will hold about 10 rounds of ammunition, enough for most situations. Reloading isn't terribly slow, and with a little practice one fire all 10 rounds, reload, and fire those 10 in about a minute. While I consider them a backup self-defense rifle, a round of .357 or 9mm even at 100 yards is going to ruin someone's day. Yet, it will not attract unwanted attention nearly as much as that 'assault rifle'.

Time to have fun:

If you can, get ahold of an H&K MP7 PDW. It is INSANE! Fast rate of fire, shoots a mini rifle round, is very accurate, and is only slightly larger than a pistol.

Negative: Rare ammo

The Tavor is probably the best new assault rifle out there, but I doubt you will be able to get ahold of one.


P90's are good, but if you drop one with a few cases shot off the bullets will fall all over the place inside a magazine, so be sure to use a sling.

Negative: Rare ammo

The AK-74 is a better gun than the AK-47 from the eyes of one buyer for one unit, so look into this weapon. If I couldn't get the above i'd buy this.

Negative: Rare ammo


Oh and Roper- this quote from the felon rapper Project Pat comes to mind concerning your glocks- "Auto-Auto-matic gat go bust, some say they're down but they're shady, so in glock I trust."

Positive: 9mm and .40 is everywhere



vor78- i'm not trying to pick an internet fight, but if you put a spatula, boot, fork, banana, a rifle that shoots pistol ammo, or an AK in a special forces soldier's hands you should be scared to death lol. It's not always the gun it's the user.

*Check your local laws concerning military grade rifles and smg's

[edit on 14-12-2006 by jaguarmike]

Although the manufacturer is no longer in business (having been purchased by General Dynamics, go figure!), what USED to be Saco Defense produced a .223/12 Gauge over/under called the Crossfire MK-1...for the Centerfire rounds a simple empty bottled water container serves as silencer very nicely, .223 rounds are a dime a dozen (unless, like myself, you are a reloader in which case they are even more readily available to you), and .223 are famous for very "flat" shooting rounds..in a survival scenario you want rounds with a decent kick (who WANTS to shoot more than once if you dont have to) as well as accuracy.

The 12 Gauge over with varying chokes ensure a wide variety of huntability, from turkey to grouse to deer (at close range) ... as well as close quarters protection.

This is what it looks like...



While the .22LR is a great choice for versatility, it's hardly flat shooting at anything beyond say 75 to 100 yards, however, doesnt have the "cracking" report of a .223 let alone a 12 gauge. If sound were of vital concern, my personal choice would be to ensure that I had close range ability, and, if so, to use .22 sub-sonic rounds instead..

A lot has to do with how comfortable a shooter feels with their firearm also... I've seen hunters with Pistol bolt action .308's hunt as successfully with it as a hunter with a Guide Gun ported .400 or .45-70... again a comfort with your firearm has a lot to do with how successfully (or covertly as you will) you can use it in dire circumstances.


AB1

I would go with 4 guns, 9mm handgun, .22 LR handgun, ak-47 (7.62x39), .308 win rifle with scope.
Guns are like golf clubs, if you have a vehicle, you may as well have a whole bag.

In survival mode, just use the .22 pistol for everything. A silencer would be nice. You can kill anything on the planet with a .308 win, and a 180 gr bullet. And .308's are like belly buttons. 9mm can be found pretty much anywhere. Only use the ak for combat. (if you live, you will probably own more weapons anyway)

I would take my bolt action .308 since its reliable in cold, wet Wisconsin weather and my bow as well. i had a semi auto .308, but after spend all day in cold slushy weather it would often misfire by sundown. I would also take my bow for situations that require stealth, but as my carbon arrows are only reusable about 60% of the time (aluminum were far far less, they almost always bent) as they often snap off as deer or other game fall on them if they dont go all the way through and arrows are bulky, not to mention the bow, and limited to a range of good accuracy out to about fifty meters for me, it would be a sparcely used. But my .308 will drop the largest animals i would face around here (black bear) in one shot, almost guaranteed, quickly, out to about 300m