Survival Rifle, page 8


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reply posted on 7-9-2007 @ 10:32 PM by WyrdeOne
reply to post by crgintx



Thanks very much for your informed reply.

It was my understanding though, that flechettes were designed to bring more muzzle energy to the target. A round ball loses energy so quickly in the air, due to its poor aerodynamics, the flechette was seen by some as an improvement. Or am I completely wrong about this?


reply posted on 8-9-2007 @ 05:38 AM by crgintx
reply to post by WyrdeOne



Military flechettes are made of steel and are very light compared to 00 or 000 buck shot. Like all light projectiles they shed energy like mad and decelerate quickly. Since they harder than lead, if you don't hit a vital organ, they just zip through human flesh without cause much damage. The now out-lawed for combat flechette 2.75 inch rocket warhead of Vietnam fame used over 10k per warhead and were dispersed with extreme velocity by a high explosive charge not low velocity gun propellant. I would guess the military one's were travelling at least 3000 fps or more when the warhead exploded. I doubt you could push a shotgun wad full of them at more than 2000 fps. 1500 fps would be more likely. They used to sell the flechettes that were salvaged from the demilled warheads for about 5-10 cents a piece for reloaders which isn't cheap. You could maybe a dozen or so in 12 gage wad or cup. You have to use a wad or you'll tear up your shotgun barrel and the fins on the flechettes. The most effective reload for a 12 gage in terms of adding just plain deadly would be simple hollow point slug of pure lead. .45-50 caliber slug will mushroom like crazy and if it exits a body, the hole is usually an inch or so in diameter. I've seen slugs used on deer and wild boar and they're absolutely superior game stoppers. The are several reloading supply companies that sell hollow point moulds for shotgun slugs.


reply posted on 15-9-2007 @ 04:38 AM by crgintx
reply to post by luckyfourteen



If I had to pick one firearm to keep, it would be a bolt action rifle in .30-'06 or 7.62x51mm NATO or maybe 7.62x39mm. .308 caliber bullets are very common and any of the rounds mention can be loaded hot enough to take any meat animal in North America. The .30-'06 would be the most versatile since it has the largest capacity. Small 100 grain Speer plinker bullets can be loaded with reduced powder loads for small game or you can load 220-240 grain bullets for large dangerous game like grizzly. Long range bullets of 150-180 grains loaded to the cartridges full potential can reach out past 1000 yards for self defense purposes.

However, even the little Russian round loaded with heavier bullets can take very large game at distances under 100 yards when fired accurately and has much less recoil then its larger rivals. The .308 Winchester aka 7.62x51mm NATO is a good compromise between the two and is generally considered the most accurate of the trio. It can't be loaded as heavily as the '06 but still a very powerful round.

There are three other .30-. 312 caliber rounds that perform just as well as the .308: .30-30 Winchester (hard to find in a bolt action but plenty of soild lever action guns out there), .303 British(should be common in BC) and the ubiquitous 7.62x54mm Russian. Lots of dirt cheap ammo for the Russian and Moisin-Nagant military surplus bolt rifles can be had for less than $100 US.

The 12 gage shotgun is very versatile but lack the range you'll get with bolt gun.


reply posted on 19-9-2007 @ 06:23 AM by crgintx
reply to post by crudos



If you're on a very tight budget, it's a very good choice but if you can afford a better gun in any of the calibers I mentioned in the earlier post, they would be a better choice. The cheap Russian 7.62 x 54 rimmed cartridge supplies are all Berdan-primed and difficult to find primers for here in the West. The Russian warhorse is a fine choice for those on a very tight budget but unless your willing to pay premium prices for Boxer-primed cases or Berdan primers, your spent cases are useless once fired. Even 5,000 rounds won't last forever in a long term survival situation.
The problem with many good military surplus guns is one of ammo. I own a Carl Gustav Model 96 Swedish Mauser 6.5x55mm bolt gun that is probably one of the finest and most accurate military rifles ever made but I know without my bullet moulds and reloading supplies, ammo is very hard to find. The same is true with the Mosin-Nagant , the local sporting goods store isn't likely to stock much ammo or bullets for it. The bore isn't .308 but actually anywhere from .309 to .314 in some cases and so firing .308 jacketed bullets will lead to accuracy problems and in survival situations, you want your first bullet to do kill your hunting prey at all times to conserve ammo.
There are many fine used .308 and .30-'06 bolt action rifles out there that will probably go for less than $300 US. Ammo, bullets, reloading equipment and primers are very common for these calibers and there's tons of reloading data for it out on the internet.


reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 03:04 PM by northwolf
reply to post by milesp



Judging by the accuracy of the average rifle sold in the US it's not much of a qualification... it's a decent rifle, but there is absolutely nothing special in it, just look at how badly it sells in the Europe...


reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 08:17 PM by Roper
Originally posted by milesp
I would think the Remington 700 .223 or .308 would be a decent survival rifle. Best selling bolt-action rifle in the history of the US.

www.youtube.com...


My son has one in the .308 and I think the barrel is to thin. Now for the average hunter that goes out and fires five or six rounds /year it will work great.

Now this is just me and I ain't no expert, thats just how I think.

Roper
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