Reasons Why I Believe There Is A God

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We need faith to believe we're alive. We need faith to believe in love. We need faith to have hope. But not necessarily faith in God.

I don't really understand what you mean.

You said we need faith to believe in evolution. And that's true, but we don't need faith in God to believe in it. We need faith that the scientific studies have been performed correctly and that they're telling us the truth of their findings.

We need faith to believe in everything, (love, life, etc) but not necessarily faith in God.

Is that clearer?

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I know because we DO exist.

The evidence? Take a look around.

How did it take place? Cannot answer that, only The Almighty knows what he has done.

Not very convincing.

I guess your not aiming for a career in science or any area that requires proper evidence and critical analysis.

Yes, I know it cannot disprove faith, but I want them to realize you also need faith to believe in evolution.

The theory of evolution does not require belief without evidence. I provided a source of evidence for you earlier.


[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

There is also evidence and reasons to believe there is a God:Six reasons to believe there is a God

Originally posted by thehumbleone
There is also evidence and reasons to believe there is a God: Six reasons to believe there is a God

These are simply unanswered questions that someone attributes to God. That's not evidence. That's pure speculation. It could just as well be aliens as God. It could be something we've never thought of or can't conceive of. We don't know.

If you want to believe it's God, that's fine, but it's not evidence or proof.

Faith is belief WITHOUT proof. Have your faith, but you cannot prove something to others that you cannot even prove to yourself.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by thehumbleone
There is also evidence and reasons to believe there is a God: Six reasons to believe there is a God

These are simply unanswered questions that someone attributes to God. That's not evidence. That's pure speculation. It could just as well be aliens as God. It could be something we've never thought of or can't conceive of. We don't know.

If you want to believe it's God, that's fine, but it's not evidence or proof.

Faith is belief WITHOUT proof. Have your faith, but you cannot prove something to others that you cannot even prove to yourself.

yes, we cannot prove conclusively that God exists, but God would not expect us to believe him without first showing some evidence for his existence.

And he has shown us some signs he exists exists.

Aliens? we don't even know they exist, it is highly doubtful that the do, and if there was aliens, that still would not explain how the universe got here.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Aliens? we don't even know they exist,

We don't KNOW that God exists, either! You may feel that you know, but I certainly don't.

Actually, there's more evidence that aliens exist than God.

if there was aliens, that still would not explain how the universe got here.

Exactly. And if God exists it also doesn't explain how the universe got here. You're just speculating that he created it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Aliens? we don't even know they exist,

We don't KNOW that God exists, either!

You may feel that you know, but I certainly don't.

Actually, there's more evidence that aliens exist than God.

if there was aliens, that still would not explain how the universe got here.

Exactly. And if God exists it also doesn't explain how the universe got here. You're just speculating that he created it.

What a joke, there's more evidence aliens exist? come on, i can say God has revealed himself to us 2000 years ago, when can you say aliens have ever revealed themselves to us?

If God exists, of course it explains how the universe got here, he created it!

Look, I know you believe in God and that's cool. But you simply cannot prove it. You have your reasons you listed in the beginning of this thread and they have been refuted several times.

I don't know why people who believe in God are so bent on trying to convince others, but you're not going to convince me.

Go ahead and believe that there's proof of God's existence. I know better.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Look, I know you believe in God and that's cool. But you simply cannot prove it. You have your reasons you listed in the beginning of this thread and they have been refuted several times.

I don't know why people who believe in God are so bent on trying to convince others, but you're not going to convince me.

Go ahead and believe that there's proof of God's existence. I know better.

I don't think any of the reasons i put have been refuted, you all just threw speculative answers.

Well, we are so bent on trying to convince others because we want you to have eternal life and know the Truth, it is a free gift that you choose to accept or reject, but just remember your end is coming one day.

I guess this is aimed at me?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
There is also evidence and reasons to believe there is a God:Six reasons to believe there is a God

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

This goes on about how water is essential to life and how the earth sits in the goldilocks zone.

Well, yeah, life on this planet needs water, isn't evidence for god though. In a universe of trillions and billions of planets, it is quite likely that quite a few would sit just in the right zone, providing the suitable environment required. I think the 'sustains us today' part is about as wrong as can be, physical laws will keep the biosphere functioning, even if and when we choke it to the extreme with CO2, no magic required.

It is also possible that other forms of life exist that do not require an environment like we have here on earth.

2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.

This ends with 'how does one explain the human brain?'

The evolutionary answer is by a process of gradual change. We have already shown the presence of fairly recent mutations underlying brain structure and development such as FOXP2 and ASPM. Lack of which results in devastating neural dysfunction. Lower species have many of the traits we have, apes show emotions, empathy, complex problem-solving, basic language etc. And we see very basic brains of 20,000 neurons.

3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.

Why?

This just goes into statistical improbability arguments and Dembski-like information waffle. Also forgot to mention the Miller-Urey experiment but did mention Pasteur - yeah, fully formed maggots don't spontaneously appear, it requires building blocks but with the right elements, why not?

4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.

Something like 90% of people also believe that they are above average in intelligence and attractiveness. I reckon about 40% of them are wrong. The mind is open to perceptual biases and uses heuristics to lessen workload, our minds are fallible, which is why objective evidence is optimal.

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

This just goes on about how because some think about the presence of a god, it must therefore exist. As I showed before, some women want so much to be pregnant that they show a pseudo-pregnancy. They are still not pregnant no matter how much they say they feel the kicking.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.

I won't comment on any particular faith. I know some wouldn't appreciate that but this doesn't really add anything of substance evidentially. Arguing that statements in a book support statements in a book is a pretty circular argument.

Overall, much of these are arguments from incredulity. Just because it all seems so complex doesn't provide support for an omnipotent creator. Complexity can be produced from simplicity through natural processes, as darwin showed and the evidence continues to show.










[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

Yes God exists....I can feel his presence...I see him in many things...I've bathed in his light during my NDE...Yes God exists and loves you too.

God for me is not based on faith anymore because I have seen him and floated in his light outside the gates of heaven.

As always your path, your faith is your choice.

kinglizard, while i accept that you believe you've had a true experience with divinity, even if it is 100% true
is that not something purely subjective?

Originally posted by kinglizard
Yes God exists....I can feel his presence...I see him in many things....Yes God exists and loves you too.

God for me is not based on faith anymore because I have seen him and floated in his light outside the gates of heaven.

As always your path, your faith is your choice.

I basically believe and stated the same.. To sit and ague about this is,well,not pointless, but futile because those who don't believe are not likely to change their minds.. However, we all know that there is not any empirical evidence that God exists.. It's a matter of belief..

Like I told humble, there is no need to be threatened by the theory of evolution. It doesn't disprove faith, nor was it ever designed to do such.. I am not real sure where individuals who believe in God ever got the idea that it was. Like madness said, it would do many a favor to read Darwin's God..Maybe then people would see that there is not quite the chasm between creationism and evolution as everyone seems to think there is.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
kinglizard, while i accept that you believe you've had a true experience with divinity, even if it is 100% true
is that not something purely subjective?

MMMM, how so? If he actually experienced it, then the subjectivity is somewhat removed.. It happened..

Originally posted by kinglizard
I've bathed in his light during my NDE...

I totally believe you had this experience. You call it the light of God. That's what you name it. I would not call it the same thing.

God for me is not based on faith anymore ...

your faith is your choice.

If you don't need faith... why do I?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Like I told humble, there is no need to be threatened by the theory of evolution. It doesn't disprove faith, nor was it ever designed to do such.. I am not real sure where individuals who believe in God ever got the idea that it was. Like madness said, it would do many a favor to read Darwin's God..Maybe then people would see that there is not quite the chasm between creationism and evolution as everyone seems to think there is.

I think it is even worse than that, I think the chasm that many seem to want to invoke actually causes people to lose faith.

Intelligence generally uses simplicity in design. The evolutionary process is about as simple and powerful as can be.

If you lose your faith because of that, then you probably didn't have much faith in the first place.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
MMMM,

how so? If he actually experienced it, then the subjectivity is somewhat removed.. It happened..

It happened. But he decided what it was that was happening. He named it based on his life experience. That's how it's subjective. Someone else (me) wouldn't have attributed it to being God.

KL believes it was God and that's great. I have read about his experience and commented positively on it. It's not for me to say what it was. He gets to make that judgment because it was his experience.

Many people would say it was brain fuzz. Some might call it love or hallucination due to his illness. I don't have a judgment about his experience, but I would if it were my own.

It would be objective if everyone who looked at the experience would call it the same thing.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
If you lose your faith because of that, then you probably didn't have much faith in the first place.
[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Possibly, but some actually do read and learn about the real-world, assess evidence on its merits and come to a conclusion. Rather than putting fingers in ears and 'lalalalala'ing

When they find that they have been fed disinformation by the likes of Hovind, Baugh, AIG, their pastors etc - they tend to question motives and distrust these people. At the extreme they lose faith, at the minimum, they bring their new knowledge into their worldview.

Either way, doesn't bother me. The real-world is out there to be studied and understood. And even though evolution is a theory, in science a theory is a bit more than a guess.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by thehumbleone
If you lose your faith because of that, then you probably didn't have much faith in the first place.
[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Possibly, but some actually do read and learn about the real-world, assess evidence on its merits and come to a conclusion. Rather than putting fingers in ears and 'lalalalala'ing

When they find that they have been fed disinformation by the likes of Hovind, Baugh, AIG, their pastors etc - they tend to question motives and distrust these people. At the extreme they lose faith, at the minimum, they bring their new knowledge into their worldview.

Either way, doesn't bother me. The real-world is out there to be studied and understood. And even though evolution is a theory, in science a theory is a bit more than a guess.
[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

Don't hold science in such high regard, it has been wrong on numerous occasions also.

Remember eugenics, or several drugs that had once been thought to be helpful, or saying the earth was flat.