Beyond Bird Flu: The Perfect Microbial Storm

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posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Scientists are warning that diseases like bird flu, anthrax and rabies could come together in what they're calling "the perfect microbial storm." Global warming and intensive farming are creating dangerous microbes - increased travel and trade are helping them breed and spread. If such a super-disease microbial storm develops, it could "cross the world in a few hours."

 



today.reuters.com

Bird flu may be the tip of the iceberg. Experts meeting in Mali say the deadly H5N1 virus is just one of a plethora of diseases threatening animals and people around the world as global warming, intensive farming, increased travel and trade help dangerous microbes breed and spread.

"Almost every year there is a new disease appearing, and 75 percent of these emerging or re-emerging diseases are coming from animals; 80 percent of those have zoonotic potential," he said in an interview. ...Le Gall said such zoonoses -- animal diseases that humans can also catch -- included Rift Valley fever, rabies and anthrax. ..."These could come together to create what the experts are calling 'the perfect microbial storm'," he said. ...What singles out bird flu is the potential of the virus to mutate into a human form of influenza capable of passing from person to person, not just from infected animals.

"Remember that with globalisation, and unprecedented movements of merchandise, of people, there is a continuous transfer of pathogens," Bernard Vallat, director general of the World Organization for Animal Health, told Reuters. ..."This is made worse by climate change. Many disease vectors have colonised new territories," Vallat said. ...West Nile Disease, which affects birds and was first found in Egypt and is spread by mosquitoes, has killed hundreds of people in the United States since it first spread there in 1999 - probably via an imported pet bird, Vallat said. ..."Now the United States is completely infected, as well as southern Canada and Mexico. In a few years this disease which was completely unknown (there) has colonised all the eastern United States via a mosquito vector," he said. ..."Microbes can cross the world in a few hours,"...



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



As humans, we are not genetically "fit" to live on this all-new chemically altered planet - but it's perfect for microbes.

Iindustry, and our entire "economic system" support microbial life, but kill everything else.

We can still buy green, and buy locally - but imo, it's not enough.

What kind of changes can we make at this point? Realistically?




posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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Maybe George Clooney will do the movie?

Seriously though, this is predictable - a result of putting profits before people, and establishing a corporatocracy to replace the old ruling monarchies. Democracy was just a stepping stone. And it's gone anyway.

The only laws we have left with any teeth protect the corporate "right to profit."

So now we're waiting for "the perfect microbial storm."

Kewl. Not.





posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 04:59 PM
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They only have as much power as we let them have sofi. Who pays their bills? We do. Its like a pet, you can either show it whos boss or you can let it walk all over you. Either way, you gotta give up something. Whether its time and energy to train it, or hassle and damages everytime it walks all over you.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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True in theory grim.

But look where we are. Super storms in the microbial world, not just meteorological. Perfect storms, all created for gawd's sake!

We do not have to be here.

We do not have to stay here.

But we are and we do. Because the media wheel keeps turnin' and no one knows the real story 'cept us elves.

:sigh:



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 07:51 PM
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And if we fall for the trickery, do we not have it coming? Life isn't all about fair and such. Sometimes people try to screw you for their own benefit, and its not a movie so alot of times they get away with it.

Its on us few good souls to try anyway in the face of destruction, because we are what american means. Its not about having the freedoms, but the exercizing of those freedoms.

If we cannot save our fellow man, then man deserves nothing more then to collapse. Perhaps that those you consider innocent are not innocent. Guilty, not of intent to do harm, but lack of any intent at all.



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
And if we fall for the trickery, do we not have it coming?




We're talking trillions of dollars dedicated to funding trickery - via the media, educational systems, and government.

What can one person do against that kind of power?

It's David and Goliath stuff.





Its not about having the freedoms, but the exercizing of those freedoms.






...But what happens when the act of exercising freedom is made illegal?






If we cannot save our fellow man, then man deserves nothing more then to collapse. Perhaps that those you consider innocent are not innocent. Guilty, not of intent to do harm, but lack of any intent at all.



Sorry to have to tell you this, but just as the planet is an interconnected system, so too is life. Whether we like it or not, we're all in this together. The notion that 'superior' and 'inferior' qualities are identifiable is pure hogwash.

Life's interrelationships and social dynamics are even more complex than weather and climate. Which as you may know, is complicated beyond comprehension and prediction.

It's pure hubris to assume we know which particular human qualities serve the future, or even our present. Acting on such assumptions would threaten species survival.

[Above statements NOT imo - but basic science.]


.



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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The only laws we have left with any teeth protect the corporate "right to profit."


Excellent Quote!



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
We're talking trillions of dollars dedicated to funding trickery - via the media, educational systems, and government.

What can one person do against that kind of power?

It's David and Goliath stuff.


Can all the money in the world trick you into seeing something that does not exist? When you see something first hand, is there a trillion dollars set aside to make you believe it never happened? That is the only thing that could possibly be worth making illegal. When they can take away your ability to experience and such, I will be on the same side of the boat as you.






...But what happens when the act of exercising freedom is made illegal?


if that happens....I don't think who's giving us accurate information will really be our top priority anymore.





Sorry to have to tell you this, but just as the planet is an interconnected system, so too is life. Whether we like it or not, we're all in this together. The notion that 'superior' and 'inferior' qualities are identifiable is pure hogwash.

Life's interrelationships and social dynamics are even more complex than weather and climate. Which as you may know, is complicated beyond comprehension and prediction.

It's pure hubris to assume we know which particular human qualities serve the future, or even our present. Acting on such assumptions would threaten species survival.

[Above statements NOT imo - but basic science.]
.


And yet you didn't see the point of my post. you MADE the point to my post so accurate. Life is connected. If so many men fall, then it is our failure as well. We are connected, so if they fall, we go down with them.

We can survive by "survival of the fittest" but we can never thrive if we live by that. You believe that our species would collapse. Only society would. Many would die, little doubt of that. The species would by no means become extint, but It wouldn't thrive either though. Thats something we share, our desire to thrive.

If we must command one man to help another, we are destined to fail, whether it be now or in the future. So why not let man act how he would and let it be as it will? We get what we have coming to us because we built this world together, the bad parts and the good parts.



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by soficrow

Sorry to have to tell you this, but just as the planet is an interconnected system, so too is life. Whether we like it or not, we're all in this together. The notion that 'superior' and 'inferior' qualities are identifiable is pure hogwash.

...t's pure hubris to assume we know which particular human qualities serve the future, or even our present. Acting on such assumptions would threaten species survival.



And yet you didn't see the point of my post. you MADE the point to my post so accurate. Life is connected. If so many men fall, then it is our failure as well. We are connected, so if they fall, we go down with them.




Agreed.






We can survive by "survival of the fittest" but we can never thrive if we live by that. You believe that our species would collapse.




Erm. No. I don't believe that.




Only society would. Many would die, little doubt of that. The species would by no means become extint, but It wouldn't thrive either though. Thats something we share, our desire to thrive.

If we must command one man to help another, we are destined to fail, whether it be now or in the future. So why not let man act how he would and let it be as it will? We get what we have coming to us because we built this world together, the bad parts and the good parts.



IMO - we're mostly on the same page. Where we seem to disagree (I think) is that you promote deregulation and the removal of other protections for individuals, but want to leave corporate legal rights and protections intact.

If you recommended dismantling the entire system, I might go along with you. But you don't. You only recommend dismantling public health and other protections.

The only laws we have left with any teeth protect the corporate "right to profit." And those are the ones you apparently want to preserve.





BTW - this thread is about "the perfect microbial storm" - an extremely interesting topic, imo.

Have you anything to say about the science? The warning? The future of life on the planet under these circumstances?








[edit on 9-12-2006 by soficrow]



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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Soficrow, as always an important and interesting thread in the field of microbiologic and viralogic hazards, that you so emminently expose.


As humans, we are not genetically "fit" to live on this all-new chemically altered planet - but it's perfect for microbes.

Iindustry, and our entire "economic system" support microbial life, but kill everything else.

Yes, but they have to keep some of us alive, as to have customers for their products. Ingenuity aint worth much if it can't make you a buck.

So they have to balance the risks of their productions and research with that of making money. And I see no sound or morale judgements rule in those considerations.

The motives for action is money - always - but not only that. A hidden agenda is being implemented more and more deliberately, more or less openly.

This old world is going down the drain by all means, so why shouldn't we take chances - even if they are bio-hazerdous - so we'll have the edge when the turmoil is over and a new balance is to be established.
Something like that - I'm afraid - corporate thinking goes.

Becoming more aware of the multiple threats, climatological, chemical, virological and political, mankind confronts, I'm getting convinced that the agenda for this planet earth is controlled die-off. All parameters are set, in policies and manufacturing, in healthcare and social science, and mostly appliances that will promote and enhance the die-off are prefered.

Over it all we have the only true God mankind adhere, MAMMON - THE MARKET, a mechanisme as 'biological' as any eco-system. The cause-effect chain it's responding to works by the same laws. Only problem with it now, it's gone carcinogenic.

Growth for the sake of growth is the mechanism of the cancer cell.

A much more serious problem, this thinking affects our minds. Almost any of us - have been infested by it, leaving us in the limbo of deceit and dispair.

We can't think it different, we can't imagine alternatives, we tend to myths just to keep our minds sane. We get the choice of just closing our eyes and slip into a number of virtual realities, provided in more and more REAL versions. In this context let's not forget the help the pharmaceutical industry offers in the choice of escape.

For the sake of mankind and its survival some of us choose to go on ATS and the like, but... ... :sigh:

It should be too obvious to mention, but the sum of everybody's choices makes up the way this world appears.

For some reason a lot of people say "Don't have (much of) a choice!"

Well, for instance now you can get bio-fuels for your car, SUV or whatever you drive, so enviromental clean, reduction of greenhouse-gasses and everything ...durable too, they say. A little more expensive, but... for the enviroment, ya know.

You oughta know though, that one tank-full for an SUV is worth one year of nutritions for one person.

The fact about bio-fuel is, it will probably become the tool to cause the most extensive "natural" die-off ever seen, the worst starvation and hunger plague ever to hit the planet. And when it's there, nothing can be done about it, because it wil be regulated by the holy market.

When foods are turned into fuel, and the price paid for the commodities needed will double or triple that of what it was if it was sold as foodstuff, then there's no power on this earth that can prevent it to be burned in combustion.

Yes, there are, but they're considered illegal.

But it won't be illegal going down the highway in overdrive, burning off the soy, corn, wheat, barley and other edible plants, while half - or the majority of - the globe is starving to death.

Sorry for getting a little off topic.

But as biohazards from experimental or deliberate manipulation of bacteria and vira will play a role in who and how many there'll live on, so will more than ANYTHING seen before, bio-fuels regulate and boil down the population - litterally speaking - of planet earth to a sustainable level.

I'm not sorry for getting dark. Not many people think about this.

Try to, before you go green-driving.

[edit on 9-12-2006 by khunmoon]



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by khunmoon
Soficrow, as always an important and interesting thread in the field of microbiologic and viralogic hazards...


As humans, we are not genetically "fit" to live on this all-new chemically altered planet - but it's perfect for microbes.

Iindustry, and our entire "economic system" support microbial life, but kill everything else.


Yes, but they have to keep some of us alive, as to have customers for their products. ...

So they have to balance the risks of their productions and research with that of making money. ...

Becoming more aware of the multiple threats, climatological, chemical, virological and political, mankind confronts, I'm getting convinced that the agenda for this planet earth is controlled die-off. ...

But as biohazards from experimental or deliberate manipulation of bacteria and vira will play a role in who and how many there'll live on, so will more than ANYTHING seen before, bio-fuels regulate and boil down the population - litterally speaking - of planet earth to a sustainable level.




Interesting rant khunmoon.


And good points about biofuel. Agreed - it's another catch-22.

But re: your suggestion that "the agenda for this planet earth is controlled die-off."

My take: I have no doubt that products were developed, engineered and distributed with that goal in mind.

But - the world turned out to be far more complicated than anyone imagined, and now it's out of control.

Which is why we're facing the "Perfect Microbial Storm."

Point being - you can't control mother nature. Or get around her. They tried, but they failed.

Now we all have to deal with the fallout. Including the manipulators, which is why they're freaked and looking for new solutions like stem cell therapy, controlled environments and space travel.


.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Well sofi, It's certainly not my suggestion, but I'm afraid it's becoming more and more my conclusion, that those who set the agenda goes for a "natural" die-off rather than try to deal and find solutions for the problem.

No more flabby humanitarianism. Those hunger-swollen stomachs of negro children with big eyes crawling with flies won't work any longer. When the ship is going down and you rush to get on deck, you don't stop to help someone stuck no matter how much they plead.

Brought up on humanitarian and social values in a time of great fear but also equal hopes, in a place relatively close to the Soviet open-air nuclear test sites, thus also being the first in line if they decided to come, I know the importance of feeling secure.

To say that we lived through the terror of the cold war and its guarantees of mutial retaliation, only to face the present situation, which in some ways are worse, because it's not black and white as the good ol' col' war was. That is to say we've gone from the ashes to the fire.

What has put my mind on depopulation is a thread touching the issue and the links it provided. Reading them convinced me that two centuries of humanism has come to an end. I shan't reveal or discuss too much of it here. I intend to do a post on it in a few days. Only I would like to quote Prince Phillip, the duke of Edinburgh, he should have said:

"If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels!"

That's their agenda.


soficrow
Now we all have to deal with the fallout. Including the manipulators, which is why they're freaked and looking for new solutions like stem cell therapy, controlled environments and space travel.

Yes, they just went up today with a team to rewire the ISS so it'll be ready for contemporary inhabitants.

My idea is they (mostly reffered to as NWO, illuminati or such. I just call them corporates) want to finish it off as quick as possible, with enginered vira, controlled starvation, legal euthanasia, regional nuclear incidents in wars - or maybe they go for the big bang.

Space would be a nice place to be then.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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Thanks for your comments khunmoon. Agreed - looks like the corporate manipulators still think they can "escape."



I just found an interesting article that might help clarify where grimreaper is coming from...

Animal borne diseases, or "zoonoses," play a key role in developing the "perfect microbial storm" - so monitoring animal diseases and tracking animal movements is essential to pandemic control. The USA has a "voluntary" system, but is now squeezing organic farmers.

Research shows that industrial farming practices help create and spread zoonoses - but industry is trying to shift the blame to organic farmers - and using government bodies to help do it.

A recent article in the Milford Daily News called "Tracking the next pandemic?" highlights some of the issues and arguments.



Tracking the next pandemic?

A coalition of organic farmers in Massachusetts is opposed to a new federal program designed to prevent the spread of mad cow disease and bird flu by tracking the locations and movements of the country's livestock. The U.S. Department of Agriculture's ``National Animal Identification System,'' which could eventually call for farmers to tag their animals with electronic tracking chips, would be burdensome for small farmers and could cripple the local farming industry, opponents of the program argue.

They say the efforts to prevent an outbreak of the deadly Avian flu virus or mad cow disease should be directed at large factory farms, where animals live in close quarters. ..."We have a tremendous problem with factory farming in this country and that's not really even on the table,'' said Ben Grosscup, a NOFA spokesman. ...The group has also expressed concern over the security of information the USDA might collect on farmers. "The government has a long history of misusing people's data,'' Grosscup said.

...farmers should be required to join a tracking system if they have above a certain number of animals. ..."People like Purdue and some of these large beef and pork growers should have the responsibility to answer to consumers,'' she said.




.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 12:10 PM
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Sofi, the only laws there should be are the ones that were originally made that protect basic rights. Any law that preserves your right to do something or make a choice is one I promote.

Anything that requires extra tax money, is something that should be handled privately. If it requires a part of tax money and it isn't part of preserving your rights, then it shouldn't be in governments hands.

Taxes should go to having the government function and maintaining the military because the military enforces the protection of rights.

Things like everyone has the right to own a gun. You have that right. It doesn't cost money to provide you with that right, aside from what it costs to run government and the military which enforces the rules. Freedom of speech only costs you what it costs to maintain government and military too. Those are the only types of laws the government should have.

Aside from those, what right does anyone have to tell you what you can and can't do? You can't tell a business what to make its food with, just like a business can't tell you what to eat. If your that fed up with it, start your own resturant promoting healthy food. Foods that don't use transfats and such. As for me, I'll stick to home cooking. (But if you do make the resturant, let me know haha.)

As far as microbes go? Were screwed because people for ages were afraid to die. We were so scared to die we made all of these vacinations and cures to live longer, which just made it possible for more powerful and superbugs to come along. We are getting exactly what we have coming to us. Our selfish ways of trying to stay alive without weighing the consequences has led us here. People die, it a fact of life, but one people refuse to admit and it will cost us.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

Taxes should go to having the government function and maintaining the military because the military enforces the protection of rights.

...aside from what it costs to run government and the military which enforces the rules. Freedom of speech only costs you what it costs to maintain government and military too.




Hmm. And here I thought it was expressly forbidden in the Constitution to use the military against American citizens.







As far as microbes go? ...We are getting exactly what we have coming to us. Our selfish ways of trying to stay alive without weighing the consequences has led us here. People die, it a fact of life, but one people refuse to admit and it will cost us.




Hmm.

So you completely discount the role corporate agricultural industries play in creating and spreading new diseases?

...The research says agri-business is the main problem, although I agree, vaccinations and pharmaceuticals play a signiicant role too.


.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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simple mistake sofi, I meant police but military was what came to mind. Police enforce locally and are usually funded in those taxes. I was thinking of the federal government.

We should only have the most basic rules in tact. Those which protect you to have the right to do whatever you please so long as it doesn't restrict some one else from doing something. Killing, stealing, etc. all directly take away the rights of others, thus illegal.

As far as the microbes, its pretty clear that what we are doing causes them. Would you not say that the desire to feed everyone has been the motivation behind companies like monsanto? Make crops in more amounts allowing more people to get food/sell food.

I think its pretty clear that our motivation behind these things is to survive. Not just when it comes to diseases, but other causes. Starvation, natural disasters, diseases, etc. are all natural causes for death yet we are trying to outsmart nature by keeping those people alive. Sad part is it will make up for the loss of deaths one day or another. All those people that didn't die then, well its going to cause many to die later.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 07:14 PM
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What role does the human immune system play in all this? I mean, we've got a fantastic defense. It's not iron-clad, but it's damn good at what it does.

Assuming, of course, that it's not compromised...

If we were meeting this challenge with a nutrient-rich diet, good but not over-the-top hygeine, plenty of clean water and air, wouldn't we stand a better chance?

Sure, lots of people are going to die. People die every day. The folks that don't die are alive for a reason.

Some folks are naturally immune to things that bring the rest of us to our knees. In some cases there's a price to pay (like the relationship between sickle-cell and malaria), but it's the way we've gotten this far.

Presumably there have always been diseases, though never so many, or such potent forms, capable of moving so quickly among populations. But still, can we not have some faith in innate human toughness and resilience?

After all is said and done, I think humans can survive a poisoned planet, an explosion of infectious disease, a food-shortage, a climate shift. I think we can survive just about anything this planet throws at us, because we are of this place - and we're survivors.

(Not counting impacts from space - that's a whole different story)

Interestingly enough, one way we that I think we could help protect ourselves is to live in close quarters with the vectors themselves - animals. I know that children who grow up around animals have a reduced incidence of asthma and allergies, presumably because their immune system is more finely tuned.

Can we beat the threat by exposing ourselves to it, and limping along the evolutionary ladder? Can we rely on our natural mechanisms to protect us, or should we go nuts with clean rooms and sterile cities?

Just thinking out loud here...



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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WyrdeOne, I agree with you, our immune system is the last defense, and that exposing ourselves to the threats will give some recognizable gain to it. But to have an effect it comes down to that the changes must not be too far from what your body already knows.

And we see now that changes become dynamic, even crossing species, due to not only experimental practisies but because the vectors get isolated from the affects of surrounding enviroments. In other words they become incubators for organisms that have been protected from the nessecity of adapting to myriads of other organisms. Which gives them the edge to develop into real nasty ones. Because the name of the game is survival, they get the advantage and time to perfect from protected settings.

When let lose, something no immune system for sure has seen before, they're bound to win.

More or less all my life been living on that philosophy, that you have to expose yourself to get resistance to the threats you will encounter, I must say in terms of flues I've been living a good life, never pestered too much by them. When I was younger I would get a mild version spring and fall. that was it and my system was tuned for the season.

When I settled and for nearly twenty years was a shopkeeper, I don't remember once I got any flu badly. Simply couldn't afford it, I had to stand in the shop six days a week.

My own theory as to why, is that standing in there I was exposed to any variation of flu going around. And they come heavily in a cold, wet, dark country. I simply would get a little bit of any new mutation before it spread widely. I should say I served 200-400 costumers every day, so I would be quite sure to get anything going around locally. Therefore for twenty years I never really was sick.

A proof of the correctness in my anticipation came when I had sold the shop and went Down Under. On a trip to New Zealand I got so sick I thought I should die. Started on the all night ride on the train up to Auckland. I knew I would be down for the count in eight hours time, but somehow I managed to make it into the cheapest and most dirty hostel in Auckland, before I was.

I laid for three days feverish and hallucinated before I could take the plane back to Sydney. Onboard I thought my head would explode from the mucus inside it unable to decompress. I made it and friends were waiting as I arrived and was taken care of.

But that was just some banal flu variant my system never had encountered before. Next time I meet that specific one I'll fare better.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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The interesting thing about the new diseases is that they use the immune system to spread in the body - so the younger, healthier and more efficient the immune system, the deadlier the disease. As is the case with H5N1 bird flu.

That's why bird flu is so scary to authorities - because it takes out the young and healthy. Older people with compromised immune systems might get very sick, and chronically disabled - but they don't die.

As it happens - I do think it's all part of an evolutionary process. Gaia in action, as it were. And yes, many diseases confer immunity to other, more serious diseases.

But it will take time for us to come back in balance with our planet - and the microbes have one heck of a head start in adapting to the molecular changes we have made (however inadvertently). Some bacteria reproduce in minutes...

IMO - it makes sense to stop changing the molecular basis of our environment. We simply cannot reproduce and adapt quickly enough to get ahead of the game - but microbes can.


.
tweak

[edit on 11-12-2006 by soficrow]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
But it will take time for us to come back in balance with our planet - and the microbes have one heck of a head start in adapting to the molecular changes we have made (however inadvertently). Some bacteria reproduce in minutes...

IMO - it makes sense to stop changing the molecular basis of our environment. We simply cannot reproduce and adapt quickly enough to get ahead of the game - but microbes can.


tweak

Sure sofi, it's The Clash of Worlds - ...and the microbes always win, that we know.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by khunmoon]





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