Riddle me this.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
However, I have many loved ones that would not need to be threatened or harmed in any way due to my personal agenda for resistance.

But now I get to play the devils advocate.

Now, like most others, myself included, you say that if you had loved ones to care for and keep out of harms way you would take the posistion. That I understand. But here is where I get to play devils advocate:

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
Others are more important than myself in my life and I would therefore not be able to justify putting anybody else in danger for whatever selfish motive I would have.

Wouldn't joining this Big Brother like N.W.O. and working within it's system be harming others? So you may be saving your families livelihood and investing in their best interests but you would also be hurting them and many others in the process.

With this type of hypothetical N.W.O. (the all powerful Big Brother) people who represent a threat or a free mind would surley be dealt with. Others who may express a seed of doubt in the system would be made a non-person I am sure --for there is nothing more dangerous then someone who finds the failings. As a part of this machine you would be indirectly contributing to this process of detention and extermination...at the very least the extermination iof personal freedom and thinking.

Like I said, I am simply playing devils advocate and you were the first person to say what I had been waiting for.

Thank you for the contribution my friend.

spines,
you are absolutley right, and in fact I had anticipated that rebuttal! In fact that is very fair and accurate as well. I think that is where the situation has a person's hands tied. Either way you are sorts screwed, but I would have to go with my same decision I think. I suppose that each situation is unique and if I were a mere number or let's say a pawn in the game, well then maybe I would not care so much. BUT, I could not live with the fact that I had personally drawn attention to my loved ones andput them in harm's way.
And, before you even go there, I know that one could argue that protection of the masses is greater than the few! Very true indeed....I am only saying that if I knew for sure that harm would come to my loved ones via my decision to refute a N.W.O., I would not do it.
I love this thread spines, you are sorta damned if you do and damned if you don't! Exactly the sort of quandry I thought you would throw at us........keep em coming!!

Peace, Mondo

Well, considering that you'll have no privacy what so ever,
That you'll be watched all the time, and always in fear of them discovering your secrets. You'll be even scared that they'll even watch you play with your wrist, and then send you coupons for lubrificants in your mailbox. I mean, common, who'd want to live in such a world? Not me, I like my privacy, I don't like people telling me what to do, how to think, how to act. They want everyone to be a number. If you do not fall in the cathegory of normal, you end up in a gulag, or better yet, in someone's burger.
So no, I wouldn't wanna live in a world like this. Not when there's cameras everywhere, where freedom of speech is inexistant, which almost is, hate crime anyone? That generalizes alot of actions as incorrect. ticketing people for being against gay marriage, locking people up for their religious beliefs, locking people up for speaking their mind basically. Yeah, all under pretext that someone somewhere will be offended. My view? If they do, they're stupid, if I find something offensive or stupid, I stop listenning or reading. It's not hard to ignore stupid people, really, there's no reason to lock them up.

Radekus,

So where do you stand exactly?? I like your statement, radical of course, but nicely said. However, pertaining to the original thread here, where do you stand, it was hard to see which side you were on in your post?? Would you work for a N.W.O. or would you react against it? You stated that you would not want to live in fear and that you like your privacy, but live in fear of what?? Fear that they would come after you if you would rebel against a N.W.O. or fear that the N.W.O. would control you if you were to conform????
Please clarify if you would...............thanks, Peace, Mondo

I would fight back, don't get me wrong, I'm totally against the NWO in present context.

But, I believe that the world could be divided by continent and race, say, 7 different sections. Each being a nation, with a main government at the top. It would be cool to have that if the government didn't have all this control. I'm up for a nwo if it's controlled by moral people. Unfortunately the elite are a bounch of evil greedy -insert insult here- who only wish to enslave the people. I don't want to live in a society such as we are becoming. Our schools are infested with corrupted ideas. They program children from a young age to be uniopinionated robots, where conformitism is at it's maximum. Where everyone is brainwashed to not ask questions about anything, or to even question authority for that matter. This is one of the reasons I droped out of college, I had enough of the brainwash. And since I live in Quebec, Canada, I have to go through english AND french versions of it, twice as much as anyone else living outside of quebec, it's riddiculous. So you have a bounch of zombies who are brainwashed into wanting globalization, cameras everywhere spying on everyone, zombies frightenned for their lives because of imaginary terrorists, and so giving up their rights and freedoms faster than you can say freedom, and the worst? Our governments are fake, they're there as illusions. Facing the fact that elections are fraud is one thing, not just because the elections are fixed, but also because all political parties are controlled by banks and corporations. The illuminati elite. And the elite view everyone as a number, a slave. They don't care if you eat, they want you to work while young, and then die, that's why many diseases are common place in older people. Cancer is a favorite of theirs. Fluoride in the drinking water, did you know fluoride was first introduced in nazi concentration camps as to make the inmates docile and accept their fate? Fluoride is good for teeth, heard of dental fluorosis? Or skeletal fluorosis? Fluoride is corrosive, it's industrial waste, industries can't put it in rivers cause it's illegal, so they put it in the drinking water, and bottled water, and toothpaste, and mouthwash, the list goes on. They were even thinking of puting it in our food! Now we have transfats, aspartame, MSG, man, the list goes on. They want us dead. They are genocidal maniacs who want to kill off 80% of the population, that's why I'm against them. Oh, and while the power structure is being built, they set up concentration camps for the people who are against this new world order genocide enslavement, they'll call us terrorists and ennemy combatants. They're already making profiles for people who go to protest rallies. Those unpopulated but manned camps need to be filled some day...

so as to your question, yes, I would fight them for the following reasons:

- Freedom of speech is already being abolished, it needs to survive, without it there are no debates and people stay in their prejudiced little world of one sidedness. I'm looking forward to debating the holocaust once I am able to, cuz if I start doing it I'll get deported like Ernest Zundel.
The reason I'm on his side is, if they have the proof of the official story, why are they locking him up and so damn afraid of the things he says?
Not that I deny it, genocides happen all the time, I just wish that one day the record could be put straight and the real information and facts come to light. Funny how history books forget Stalin's massive genocides and concentrate on Germany all the time... Stalin killed way more people than Hitler ever did. I don't want to offend, I just don't want history to be lies.
I also want to prevent all this from happenning ever again. Genocide is never an answer, it's the easiest thing to do, not the most honourable though.

-People should not be taged, traced, and controlled like cattle, worse even. It's about freedom and rights, look at britain, if I were living there with the current problems, you bet your ass I would be walking around and spreading the word. Not that I'm not here, me and a friend are making a video, unfortunately we lost the camera and need to buy a new one... In other words, someone borrowed it to us and now doesn't wanna borrow it to us anymore.

-Morality has been corrupted, the values of our ancestors have to be renewed. Fair courts also have to be created. Unfortunately now a days, you are guilty untill proven innocent.

Radekus,

Thank you for your input to this thread. I can not say that I agree with everything you have said but the majority rings some feeling of common ground within me.

Originally posted by Radekus
I believe that the world could be divided by continent and race, say, 7 different sections. Each being a nation, with a main government at the top.

It seems that you are supporting some form of seperitism here. I can't say that I agree completely. There is already a bit of seperitism occuring ion a continental level but with globalization certain 'closed border' nations (such as China) are starting to integrate.

Sometimes it causes problems but I feel that several race specific nations will cause more problems then good. After all, race specific nations would only add one more fuel to the call for war; already fueled by inflated senses of 'patriotism'.

Originally posted by Radekus
Unfortunately the elite are a bounch of evil greedy -insert insult here- who only wish to enslave the people.

Well, as the cliche says, absolute power corrupts absolutely and in my hypothetical situation there is absolute power. I may feel that the 'enslavement' is one that is targetting the mentality of the people rather then a literal enslavement of the body, but I am right there with you in this sentiment of 'enslavement'.

Originally posted by Radekus
They program children from a young age to be uniopinionated robots, where conformitism is at it's maximum. Where everyone is brainwashed to not ask questions about anything, or to even question authority for that matter.

Agreed. Free thinking is shot down before it can 'be a problem'. I look at my country and the, what appears to be, institutionalized ignorance.

The number of times that questioning authority and the way things are being done has triggered "You're not a real American. Get out of this country you ::insert typical insult here::" is troubling and it breaks my American heart.

Thank you for the input Radekus. I look forward to hearing from you some more.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
I suppose that each situation is unique and if I were a mere number or let's say a pawn in the game, well then maybe I would not care so much. BUT, I could not live with the fact that I had personally drawn attention to my loved ones andput them in harm's way.

Agreed with 100%. I feel that whatever conviction I would have to resist and find others who share my sentiment would be trumoped by worry for whatever family I may or may not have.

If the safety of those I loved could be guarenteed by pushing of papers then I could brood against the powers that be silently and within my own mind.

However, if it was a job that gave me irrefutable proof of the wrong doings 'within the system' then I do feel that I would need to do something. First thing would be to 'open' my family's eyes --as I would want them to understand what it was that was wrong with the world. From there I suppose we could try to find a way to 'slip out' and do something...anything...as long as they filled with the same conviction that I would be.

Hmm, now this thread is making me question many different scenarios. I will save you all the rambling and organize my thoughts before I share them.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
And, before you even go there, I know that one could argue that protection of the masses is greater than the few!

Perhaps you know the way in which my mind works better then I thought.

But yes, I could argue that but, as you see above, even with this purley hypothetical my mind is torn and leaving itself many different paths to ponder.

Thank you for the mental workout Mondo.

I have a question. Let's put it in the form of what if.
Let's say they already implemented the national ID card scheme.
What happens when I refuse to accept one? Do I loose my status as citizen? Do I loose my rights? Do I become no one? Does this mean the state can do what it wants with me? What about driving a car? Would I loose my liescence? These are worrisome questions.

Second. Let's say nothing changes, but then they start chiping people.
Then I wouldn't be able to buy anything, what then? How would I feed myself? Go to a food store and just take things? I would get arrested, and since I'm not a citizen since I don't have a National ID card, I get deported to a gulag. I think that's how they'll do it, slowly and peacfully. That's how they'll kill off the resistance culture. So, let's say I'm smart and know that I'll get deported, still, how am I going to eat? Or work even? Or live? What, back to the woods? And then what? Where am I gonna go? The great white north and hunt deer? Common, you need tools and a community, it's not easy to just start being a hunter ghaterer, and besided, they're so paranoid they'd probably find the village using satelites. It's gonna be like Apocalypto, high tech style, us being the village people.

Originally posted by spines
Hmm, now this thread is making me question many different scenarios. I will save you all the rambling and organize my thoughts before I share them.

spines,
Now we are both trying to guage the integrity of each hypothetical decision. Sometimes I am glad to have them be just that, but you raise a great point in opening up the eyes of others so that they may see the corruption if it were like that.
I await the organization of your thoughts per your reply above in quotes as well as Radekus's replies, but by the way............................................Radekus, I am going to take a stab in the dark and go ahead and assume that your screen name implies a radical viewpoint as you surely do have!!! I appreciate this quality,and in no way am I slamming you!!!! It's just that you have some pretty strong feelings it seems, right???

Til later, Peace.........Mondo

Actually my name is Radek... But I am radical none the less, if the truth is radical, then so be it. Meh, I just don't want this scenario to become a reality: The government starting to round people up nazi style.

I just want to live man, just live. I wanna be a farmer minding my own business. I'm tired of all this corruption. What is terrible about being a farmer now a days is the cost and the fact that you can't do it old style anymore. They force terminator seeds up your butt that don't reproduce once they become plants, so you gotta pay hungry corporations even more money. You'd be surprised how angry farmers are these days. I live in the city, but I know a few farmers, they're not content.

Originally posted by Radekus
I have a question. Let's put it in the form of what if.
Let's say they already implemented the national ID card scheme.
What happens when I refuse to accept one? Do I loose my status as citizen? Do I loose my rights? Do I become no one? Does this mean the state can do what it wants with me? What about driving a car? Would I loose my liescence? These are worrisome questions.

Great question and glad to see that you are still reading and investing time in this thread. Now, to answer your question (I love these hypotheticals...great mind candy).

It seems to me, after taking some time to wake up this morning and think it over, that the best thing an active resistence force could do was to accept the chips and/or cards and go about living an every day life. I imagine that meetings would be disguised as social functions and one would have to be certain who you are letting in.

At these meetings a guise would have to be let on with spoken word but in written word the real matters could be discussed. At the end of the meetings the single sheet of paper with the information on it would be destroyed.

It seems that one could hold an active and flourishing resistance in plain sight (think a glorified Great Escape scenario). It also seems that this 'in plain sight' type of organized resistance, if operated by intelligent and clever individuals, could manage to at least offer a place for open discussion against our hypothetical N.W.O. (a right which would certainly be taken away).

Originally posted by Radekus
Second. Let's say nothing changes, but then they start chiping people.
Then I wouldn't be able to buy anything, what then? How would I feed myself? Go to a food store and just take things? I would get arrested, and since I'm not a citizen since I don't have a National ID card, I get deported to a gulag. I think that's how they'll do it, slowly and peacfully. That's how they'll kill off the resistance culture.

I imagine that in our hypothetical situation we have built around each others posts that, if you do as previously mentioned in this reply, that you shouldn't have trouble feeding and clothing yourself. When and if this resistance comes into some type of fruition (attempting to leave the controlled areas if any hospitable areas are not under the watch of this N.W.O., etc...) I imagine there would be enough of a group to more or less band together.

However, it seems rather obvious in my opinion that 'in plain sight' is the most effective means of organizing a resistance and living off the land/starting a community unto itself would not be an issue for a many years --if ever.

Originally posted by Radekus
So, let's say I'm smart and know that I'll get deported, still, how am I going to eat? Or work even? Or live? What, back to the woods? And then what? Where am I gonna go?

Just to reiderate the entire reply Like I said, an 'in plain sight' type of resistance would, hopefully, not need to take these steps for a very long while (if ever). The active organization of peoples, if only to share a dissident word, is the most logical and safest form of organized resistance; further steps could be taken with great preperation and resources.

Hmm, these hypotheticals are a good deal of fun. Once again I thank you for your input Radekus and encourage you to continue the discussion.

For anyone else reading, chime in with your thoughts on the original question and perhaps we can start a conversation.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
Now we are both trying to guage the integrity of each hypothetical decision. Sometimes I am glad to have them be just that, but you raise a great point in opening up the eyes of others so that they may see the corruption if it were like that.
I await the organization of your thoughts

Hmm, well...while I work on this orginization of thoughts I suppose you could do the same to your aformentioned thoughts.

No fair me having to do all the mental workout.

When I get more then a half an hour to sit down and think I will try and orginize my thoughts; I expect the same from you my friend.

Hmm, okay, in plain sight... there's a problem with this. They'll be able to track you, so if you ever DO consider fighting back with your friends, say place some bombs. All they'll have to do is rewind and figure out what gps device was located there at that time. They know where you were for an entire year using your cellphone. So if you plant bombs, unless you carve out your implanted chip, they'll know who did it, and there goes your guerilla warefare. Because let's face it, at that point, the resistance would be violent, it wouldn't be peacful anymore.

It would be helpless and pointless to resist, unless you didn't have a chip, the best thing to do is be a sponsor of a reistance group living in your basement, unfortunately there are laws that will punish you for harbouring "terrorists".

Originally posted by Radekus
Hmm, okay, in plain sight... there's a problem with this. They'll be able to track you, so if you ever DO consider fighting back with your friends, say place some bombs. All they'll have to do is rewind and figure out what gps device was located there at that time. They know where you were for an entire year using your cellphone. So if you plant bombs, unless you carve out your implanted chip, they'll know who did it, and there goes your guerilla warefare. Because let's face it, at that point, the resistance would be violent, it wouldn't be peacful anymore.

Well, I suppose I didn't get it across clearly and thats my fault.

This 'in plain sight' type of resistance would not be boming places or doing things of that nature. It would be a place where like-minded individuals would come together and hold onto a lost freedom: The freedom to share dissedent words against this hypothetical N.W.O.

Openly hostile actions, such as bombing a building, would do nothing but

a) Give your orginization away to the authorities (as you stated)

and

b) If your group is too large to 'wipe out' in one movement, a bombing of this nature would label you a terrorist by the ruling powers and in the minds of the people.

A hostile type action would have negative affects for the orginization far beyond the obvious (being activley searched for by the powers that be). You would loose any hope of helping to show the 'truth' to the general populous. Without a willingless to be told otherwise, the evil that is behind this hypothetical N.W.O. would remain unknown and clouded by disinformation and positive publicity.

Furthermore, lets say that this orginization has garnered a large membership. Everyone still lives under the guise of a normal life but 'action' is required for whatever reason. I would imagine that whatever communication that would take place would be written or word of mouth only and if implants are involved they would be removed just before the operation takes place. Your identity being known would be the least of your problems at that point.

These reasons are why I was advocating a peaceful and 'in plain sight' type resistance. Besides, resistance does not have to be violant in nature...it could simply be keeping your mind alert and open; keeping dissedent ideas and words alive in secret.

Originally posted by Radekus
It would be helpless and pointless to resist, unless you didn't have a chip, the best thing to do is be a sponsor of a reistance group living in your basement, unfortunately there are laws that will punish you for harbouring "terrorists".

Like I said, it is not helpless if the actions taken are not brazen in conception and execution.

People always seem to think that the only resistance to this type of hypothetical N.W.O. is violance...I hope that I have made it clear now that I do not feel this way.

So basically you mean meeting in secret and discussing how our rights are getting violated without doing anything about it? I already do that, and trust me, it gets annoying when you realise you're not doing anything about it, anything really meaningfull that is. Soon we won't be able to do anything about it but watch. I spread leaflets, question people on the street and make videos right now, soon I won't be able to do that either. So you suggest I just keep quiet about it? hehe, I can tell you right now I can't, not because I choose not to, but because it's my nature to squeal when being stamped to the floor. I'm pretty sure I'll die in the first days, if a revolution occurs. And you know... I don't care, because I would have died for future generation's sake.

I'll try to see where you're going with your thing. Meeting with people and spreading the word in secret. There are risks, and if you inform an informant, you're dead meat. Note that the government already offers rewards for rating people out. Might be cheap, but some traitors would do it. It's that thing that they share that I cannot understand, just like how a friend can steal from another. If you do succeed, you can form secret societies and take the government back legally by infiltrating key positions, just like what the illuminati did. Unfortunately they did it and will make sure that we cannot. This kind of plan is even riskier than an outright civil war. People have big mouths, don't forget that.

This thread is getting more and more fun to debate on, I'm really enjoying this. Now, back to drafting that house... uhhhh... it's fun when they don't give you all the measurments...

Originally posted by Radekus
This kind of plan is even riskier than an outright civil war. People have big mouths, don't forget that.

Quote shortened for point of reply.

Indeed, but keep in mind: All of what I say right now is one hypothetical path which could happen.

You seem to be fighting your fight in there here and now and I say more power to you. But keep in mind: my hypothetical situation is one of a Big Brother type N.W.O.

Regardless, I hope you continue to post your thoughts here. Very interesting reading and all that.

[edit on 12/12/0606 by spines]