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Harper Declares Quebec A Nation Within Canada

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posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 07:47 PM
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Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has introduced legislation that will consider the province of Quebec a nation inside of Canada. It has been viewed as an effort to block attempts that would eventually lead to the complete separation of Canada and Quebec.
 



www.cnn.com
TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's stunning motion recognizing Quebec as a nation within Canada has reignited a debate over the divisive issue, with some supporters cautiously viewing it as a bold political step while critics described it as a recipe for tearing apart the country.

Harper's comments in Parliament seemed to pre-empt a planned motion by the Bloc Quebecois that states the French-speaking province is a nation. The wording of that motion, however, does not include the words "within Canada," leaving federalists worried it could be misinterpreted. Harper said the Bloc Quebecois motion was an "unusual request" that could lead to another referendum for Quebec independence.

"Do Quebecers form a nation within a united Canada? The answer is yes," Harper on Wednesday told a cheering House of Commons to numerous standing ovations. "Do Quebecers form an independent nation? The answer is no -- and it will always be no.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Coming from the east coast of Canada, separation of Quebec and Canada would be devastating. I would hope that the progress made here will finally silence the separation movement. By giving Quebec what they want, to be considered a nation yet keeping them in confederation, both sides are going to benefit.

It is left to be seen if this is a stepping stone for further progress or if the separatists will be satisfied with Harpers new legislation.

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
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posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 07:54 PM
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Of course we, as quebekers are a nation within a nation! This is the first sane thing Harper have done!


But I heard that a seperation of Quebec would benefit Bilderberg so they can engineer a civil war and steal our electricity, water and forest... and of course pushing the police state in Canada. Harper is a former attendee of Bilderberg.

We just want to have a garantee that we will keep our language and our values... that's why we want to seperate in the first place, if you give us all that, why would we seperate?

I just fear when the NAU will arrive, and destroy the US/Mexico/Canada constitution, with all the hate towards us, our right to speak french will not be in the constitution and then we will be forced to speak english, a thing that most of us won't accept at all.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by Vitchilo]


jra

posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
We just want to have a garantee that we will keep our language and our values... that's why we want to seperate in the first place, if you give us all that, why would we seperate?


I have never seen or heard of anyone trying to take away the French language or values within Canada. Not within my life time anyway. As a fellow Canadian perhaps you could inform me of anything that I may have missed? Thank you.


I just fear when the NAU will arrive, and destroy the US/Mexico/Canada constitution, with all the hate towards us, our right to speak french will not be in the constitution and then we will be forced to speak english, a thing that most of us won't accept at all.


If a North American Union was to ever form. Why do you fear that you'd be forced to speak English? The European Union has 20 official languages (soon to be 21 with Irish being added to the list), so why do you think it would be any different for a NAU? I could see English, French and Spanish (and possibly others) being official languages for a NAU.

And I don't see hate towards French speakers in Canada. Maybe it's because I live on the west coast, but I'd still think I would have heard something. I see dislike for the idea of separating, but that's about it.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by jra]



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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Can someone help me out here, would this be like California saying that it's an independent nation? If so, then you guys shouldn't allow it, I prefer out policy, once you join the union there's no going back.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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I have never seen or heard of anyone trying to take away the French language or values within Canada. Not within my life time anyway. As a fellow Canadian perhaps you could inform me of anything that I may have missed? Thank you.


It's because we fear for our language... after all, we are surrounded by 330 millions of english people with a different culture.



If a North American Union was to ever form. Why do you fear that you'd be forced to speak English? The European Union has 20 official languages (soon to be 21 with Irish being added to the list), so why do you think it would be any different for a NAU? I could see English, French and Spanish (and possibly others) being official languages for a NAU.


Because when we know who's behind it, the corporations and globalists, they would try to swallow us like they did to the french in New Orleans... And we can't compare to the EU now because they don't have a new constitution, yet. But I doubt they would make 21 languages officials, I just hope that if a NAU is formed, we keep our french, you keep your english and the mexicans keep their spanish, and that it's written in the constitution.



And I don't see hate towards French speakers in Canada. Maybe it's because I live on the west coast, but I'd still think I would have heard something. I see dislike for the idea of separating, but that's about it.


I see a lot of english canadian on the web spitting their hate against us because a lot of us want to seperate to save our culture and our language. They don't know anything about Quebec and they hate us... It's just plain stupid.


Can someone help me out here, would this be like California saying that it's an independent nation? If so, then you guys shouldn't allow it, I prefer out policy, once you join the union there's no going back.


Not at all. A nation is a group who shares the same culture, language and/or religion within a certain area.

California citizens have the same religion, culture and language than the washington citizens... so they are not a different nation.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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I really do not understand how trying to Seperate yourselves beneifts unity? A united laguage is a good launguage. Why don't we just hurry up the North American Union? That would make things much better.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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I really do not understand how trying to Seperate yourselves beneifts unity? A united laguage is a good launguage. Why don't we just hurry up the North American Union? That would make things much better.


Yeah, give up your borders, rights and constitution. So you want to move from the US to a dictatorship in NA? Do you know who will write the new constitution? The corporations. Do you know what this is called? Fascism!



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo

I really do not understand how trying to Seperate yourselves beneifts unity? A united laguage is a good launguage. Why don't we just hurry up the North American Union? That would make things much better.


Yeah, give up your borders, rights and constitution. So you want to move from the US to a dictatorship in NA? Do you know who will write the new constitution? The corporations. Do you know what this is called? Fascism!


Ha,little too late for that one buddy.
Already done. Borders,what's that? Constitution,dont seem to be using ours. Corporations are already too powerful. The U.S and Canadian oil comps alone are the big players. Tie that in with mexico's cheap labor and the NAU is already here in a sense. Making it formal is all that's left.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 10:53 PM
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Trust Harper to create a crisis.

And then provide a Corporate Solution.

He's been taking lessons from his buddy Bush. While playing golf on the Bilderburg course.



jra

posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Can someone help me out here, would this be like California saying that it's an independent nation?


Not really. If Quebec were to separate it would also physically separate the east coast provinces from the rest of Canada as well, which is not a good thing. Not to mention the First Nations groups that live Quebec who don't wish to separate either. There are other issues too of course.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
It's because we fear for our language... after all, we are surrounded by 330 millions of english people with a different culture.


Well I still don't see the threat of that being taken away. I for one love the cultural diversity that makes up this country as do many others I think.


But I doubt they would make 21 languages officials, I just hope that if a NAU is formed, we keep our french, you keep your english and the mexicans keep their spanish, and that it's written in the constitution.


Well the EU does really have 20 official languages, which is a fact. And I have no doubt that a possible NAU would have multiple languages. I don't see why it wouldn't.


I see a lot of english canadian on the web spitting their hate against us because a lot of us want to seperate to save our culture and our language. They don't know anything about Quebec and they hate us... It's just plain stupid.


Well people on the web generally tend to say stupid things no matter what the subject
I wouldn't take it all personally.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:53 PM
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A split-off of Quebec into a separate nation is a bad idea, imo. That would be an invitation for disaster; you can be very sure that it won't be long before some displaced refugees decide to make it their country, and to force their own culture and laws upon you.

The main issue seems to be language, correct? It seems to be simply solved: for Quebec, honor both French and English.

As far as hatred goes, I'm not sure where that's coming from. We, the US, consider Canada an ally and trading partner. I personally disagree with some of your policies and attitudes, but so what? And believe me, if you want to know how it feels to be hated, become a US citizen.

There's safety in numbers, and if I were Canadian, I would be against splitting off.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:56 PM
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This makes me happy because the reality of Quebec leaving Canada is becoming a subject of discussion again. They will go and the sooner the better for the rest of us.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 12:10 AM
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I think eventually Quebec will split off, as this issue never seems to die no matter what accomodations the Canadian government gives to the French-speaking Quebecers. They would probably become an independent country, but I think some of them really want to become part of France.

What would happen to the rest of Canada without Quebec?



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
And believe me, if you want to know how it feels to be hated, become a US citizen.


Jso, have you actually gone out of the United States? We really aren't hated more than anyone else. Just because teenagers write things about the US on blogs, does not mean we are hated.


There should be a vote in Quebec if they want to not be part of Canada. What does Quebec have anyway? Doesn't Alberta have most of the oil?


jra

posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo
This makes me happy because the reality of Quebec leaving Canada is becoming a subject of discussion again. They will go and the sooner the better for the rest of us.


Ignorance at its finest


How is this good for Canada? It's quite the opposite really...

One of many links you can read to educate yourself on the issue www.soyouwanna.com...

EDIT to add:


Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
There should be a vote in Quebec if they want to not be part of Canada.


There have been two already.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by jra]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 12:47 AM
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jsobecky, thanks for your comments.

denythestatusquo: Generally I agree with you on a lot of things but what's your problem about us?


I think eventually Quebec will split off, as this issue never seems to die no matter what accomodations the Canadian government gives to the French-speaking Quebecers. They would probably become an independent country, but I think some of them really want to become part of France.

What would happen to the rest of Canada without Quebec?


Is it bad to want your own country for your own people? The founding fathers of the US were bad people because they wanted to seperate from their UK overlords? Try to say this.

And no, no one want to become part of France, this is a proof you don't know anything about Quebec and the seperation movement.

I'm sure Canada would do pretty well.


Jso, have you actually gone out of the United States? We really aren't hated more than anyone else. Just because teenagers write things about the US on blogs, does not mean we are hated.

Eh... Europe hate USA, south america hate USA, middle-east hate USA... they hate your administration and what you did in Iraq and your tendency of imperialism.


There should be a vote in Quebec if they want to not be part of Canada. What does Quebec have anyway? Doesn't Alberta have most of the oil?

Already done 2 times but we got robbed in 95, we actually won the vote 55%/45% but 200.000 non-resident of Quebec voted against the seperation so we lost. We'll probably have another vote next year.

And we have forests, water, electricity, technologies, oil and a lot of others things.

Thanks jra.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
The main issue seems to be language, correct? It seems to be simply solved: for Quebec, honor both French and English.

Oh, if only it was that easy. French is already the official language of Quebec and they have language laws that are strictly enforced. Any signage with English on it must have French on it which is bigger than the English letters. I hate to use Wikipedia to explain some of the special protections that Quebec has on language, but it's the simplest way.



One of the Charter's objectives is to increase the knowledge of French among the immigrant population so that it integrates to the mainstream society of Quebec. To do so, a disposition stipulates that children attending public schools must do so in French until the post-secondary level. It is however possible to attend non-subsidized private school in any language if the parents choose to. An exception allows for children to attend the English-language public schools if either one of the parents received his/her education in English in Canada. With this exception to the rule, the constitutional rights of the English-speaking minority of Quebec are protected. The original 1977 Charter made it legal only for children of a parent who had received his/her education in English in Quebec. This had to be amended following the adoption of the Constitution Act 1982, which defined the educational right of French and English minorities in all provinces under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

...

The Charter makes French the official language in the workplace. In particular, current and prospective employees cannot be subject to discrimination if they are unable to or do not wish to use a language other than French. A regulation states that internal written communications for all corporations in Quebec must be in French, but a translation in any other language may be included if the employer deems it necessary.

....

As of 2003, all video games sold in Quebec must include French instructions. Stores holding unused games with English-only instructions will be fined for each individual offending copy and see their merchandise seized.

Charter of the French Language


I wouldn't say that English speaking Canadians hate Quebec, I think it's a matter of hurt feelings. To quote Majic, "After all, there's nothing like demanding your own country to make other Canadians think you don't like being Canadian." That sums it up. When Quebec talks about separation, the rest of us are left wondering what's so bad about being Canadian?

I still want to know what the plan is for the First Nations in the event of separation. Will the nation of Quebec steal their land, continuing the great North American tradition of nation building? Even Quebec City is under a land claim. Nobody has ever given me an answer to this question, no matter how many times I have asked.

Like jra said, there have already been two referendums, both of which the No side won. The last time they had a vote Jacques Parizeau, the Premier of Quebec at the time, blamed the loss on money and the ethnic vote. I think statements like that are what make the rest of Canada go, 'Well, that's not very nice'. It makes it sound like only French speaking voters have a right to a vote.

I have no problem with Quebec being recognized as a 'nation within a nation'. After all, we already gave the First Nations that status. I just want it to end, and I don't mind a compromise.

Vitchilo, do you think that if this went through it would put an end to 50 years of separation talk? Or would people say that it's not enough? The Parti Quebecois has a lot invested in the idea of separation and I don't see them being happy with this proposal.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:20 AM
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I wouldn't say that English speaking Canadians hate Quebec, I think it's a matter of hurt feelings. To quote Majic, "After all, there's nothing like demanding your own country to make other Canadians think you don't like being Canadian." That sums it up. When Quebec talks about separation, the rest of us are left wondering what's so bad about being Canadian?


Because. When we talk, we say we are quebekers, not canadians. If someone is from ontario, does he says he's an ontarier or a canadian? He says he's canadian.



I still want to know what the plan is for the First Nations in the event of separation. Will the nation of Quebec steal their land, continuing the great North American tradition of nation building? Even Quebec City is under a land claim. Nobody has ever given me an answer to this question, no matter how many times I have asked.


The first nations stay where they are. Quebec city is ``under a land claim``, 3 cities but not all, and the hurons chief said that they would exchange those cities for others territories in the north. So no big deal.



Like jra said, there have already been two referendums, both of which the No side won. The last time they had a vote Jacques Parizeau, the Premier of Quebec at the time, blamed the loss on money and the ethnic vote. I think statements like that are what make the rest of Canada go, 'Well, that's not very nice'. It makes it sound like only French speaking voters have a right to a vote.

He was angry. We as a nation want to seperate and if immigrants don't like it, even if it will change nothing for them, they just have to move to ontario.



I have no problem with Quebec being recognized as a 'nation within a nation'. After all, we already gave the First Nations that status. I just want it to end, and I don't mind a compromise.

It will never end, some people want their own country, that's it.



Vitchilo, do you think that if this went through it would put an end to 50 years of separation talk? Or would people say that it's not enough? The Parti Quebecois has a lot invested in the idea of separation and I don't see them being happy with this proposal.

Not enough? Some seperatists (like me) want only to be recognized as a nation and have garantees that we will keep our language and our culture, others want no matter what seperate from Canada. That's it. The BQ and the PQ won't like this statement by Harper because it will affect them in the next election.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Eh... Europe hate USA, south america hate USA, middle-east hate USA... they hate your administration and what you did in Iraq and your tendency of imperialism.


Considering I have been to many places outside of the US and I am American, I can say that they do not hate Americans more than anyone else when you actually go there. They may hate the government, etc. But Americans are fine.

In fact, many places like Americans. Americans=money in many places



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:46 AM
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Vitchilo, thank you very much for being the first person who has ever given me a response about the First Nations. So each First Nation would be able to choose if they wanted to be in Canada or Quebec and there would be negotiations if they opted out of Quebec?

I don't get your answer about being Quebekers. I understand that it's an identity thing, but I still don't understand why the rest of Canada sucks so much. I don't care if people from Quebec want to call themselves Quebekers, I just would like them to be Quebekers in Canada. People's feelings get hurt because we see it as some kind of rejection. That's why it appears that there is animosity.

The thing about the immigrants is that they are also citizens of Quebec. They pay taxes and deserve equal representation. That means they are entitled to a vote in any referendum, and that vote should be worth the same as any other. To do anything else is elitist and casts the people who wish for separation in a bad light. It puts the immigrants in the same position that Quebec is claiming they are in. A minority in a nation that doesn't value them or listen to them. If Quebec doesn't like having immigrants, stop letting them into the province. Don't take their tax money and then tell them they don't get a say in what happens. That's just not fair.



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