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How to kill a killer

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posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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I find it so ironic the way Jack's (end-of) life is playing out.

Here is a man, dying in the Fed Pen from a disease contracted WHILE in prison!

How ironic, you think?

He was sentenced for committing a crime of "helping" terminally ill persons end their life, and now he has been committed to his own early death by a disease contracted (Hep C) while serving his sentence.

If I didn't know better, I would say it was planned. Why not? The feds know and knew that their disease infested prisons infect most all persons committed to them. So lets sentence an old man to death in a fashion that wouldn't require the death penalty. Lets kill him off in a way that would be a long slow miserable death, a kinda "payback" if you will.








Few people have ever worked harder at getting sent to prison than Jack Kevorkian, the Michigan pathologist who made physician-assisted suicide a national issue in the 1990s.

After being acquitted of violating laws against assisted suicide in a series of spectacular trials, he switched to euthanasia, videotaped it, and sent the proof to Mike Wallace, who aired it on 60 Minutes.

Kevorkian then fired the flamboyant Geoffrey Fieger, his longtime lawyer, tried to defend himself, and was convicted of second-degree murder in 1999. That was the first time he had been convicted of a major offense, and the judge threw the book at him, giving the elderly man a sentence - 10 to 25 years - far in excess of normal guidelines.

That was nearly seven years ago. Since then, Kevorkian has renounced assisted suicide, vowing to never again get involved with helping people die once he is released.

~~~~

Mayer Morgenroth, "Dr. Death's" attorney, doesn't think his client will live that long, and has asked Gov. Jennifer Granholm to override their recommendation and commute his sentence. That would be politically risky for her; she faces a tough re-election battle, and Republicans would love to be able to accuse her of turning loose a man many of them see as a serial killer.
editorial


So he shouldn't be released, it would be political baggage.




edit-sp
[edit on 18-11-2006 by smirkley]


[edit on 19-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 02:07 PM
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Doubt it, he was probly made someones bitch and contracted it through the very common prison practice of sodomy. It can and has happened before. I doubt the government planned to kill a man who was already going to die in prison.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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To say going to prison makes it OK to have heinous crimes committed against a person, to me violates even the most basic human rights.

Does going to prison mean that you no longer hold simple human rights that normally would protect you from crimes out in the real world?

Is that part of 'rehabilitation'?

Regardless we don't know HOW he contracted it, just that he contracted HepC IN prison, and it could have just resulted in more benign ways.

[edit on 18-11-2006 by smirkley]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 09:38 PM
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Where's the conspiracy?
He went to prison after a lawful conviction. His prison term is steep and I can imagine he has been made an example to others.


Your article is months old and I wonder if you have more current info for us?
Maybe a source for his hepatitis?
All I could find was a wiki article that mentions the disease was a product of his reseach into blood transfusions, not prison life.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 12:15 AM
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He is being made an example of. That is it.
He scares people with his research, he scares the government with his mind.
Convicted "Real Murderers", generally don't do as much time as he has had to.

Yet he has taken his profession far beyond just the normal autopsy, and attempted to do research into saving lives, and attempted to show that terminally ill persons can end their life with a little dignity instead of miserably expiring hooked up to machines and in great pain.

How did he get HepC? I don't know.
The majority of links suggest it was contracted doing transfusion experiments in Nam, but so far it cannot be validated anywhere even by his own words.

The conspiracy you ask?...

Why is he doing much more time (regardless of his very fragile health) when other's doing worse crimes do less time?

Because he scares people and he needs to be made example of.

Why was it so hard for Granholm to consider a pardon or even early release?

Because it was election season and the republicans would have had a field day using that against her.

Why does he get so much bad press?

Because his research is not typical "Dinner-Table" medical conversation.


He is being made example of so others do not follow in his path.


An article on the subject...


"The so-called health professions have an indirect sickening power, a structurally health-denying effect. They transform pain, illness and death from a personal challenge into a technical problem and thereby expropriate the potential of people to deal with their human condition in an autonomous way."
PBS



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 08:32 PM
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Interesting also, after some more reading, that the disease that he is infected with and purportedly contracted in Nam, wasn't even discovered until almost 30 years AFTER he supposedly exposed himself to it.

But I cannot for the life of me even find any reference to dispel the question of the source of Jack's HepC. IMO, someone has propagated that it was contracted in NAM, but it wasn't Jack. It is hard for someone to refute fallacy from within prison.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 09:02 PM
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Living in Michigan, Dr Death was on the news almost daily for awhile.
I certainly don't remember hep C being mentioned ever.

Being a medical doctor, he certainly could had treated himself much earlier. He could have had the disease for 30 years:
www.lectlaw.com...
If his disease had progressed, he certainly could be a candidate for cancer.

I see no reason to assume he contracted this disease while in prison.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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I myself have spent several years in Michigan, from the seventies forward and am very familiar with the news that was prevalent then and even now. I know who he is as well as the public and political reaction from experience.


Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I certainly don't remember hep C being mentioned ever.

Exactly my point in this thread. To me, this didn't even surface as news until AFTER he was diagnosed in prison.




Being a medical doctor, he certainly could had treated himself much earlier.

Yes very true. Even though that type of medicine was out of his focus of practice, surely he would have recognized a symptom or two and acted upon it.




He could have had the disease for 30 years:
www.lectlaw.com...
If his disease had progressed, he certainly could be a candidate for cancer.

Actually he would have had to have it for over 40 years from the point of alleged contraction to the point of diagnosis, but it WOULD have shown up in a simple and common blood test, post 1990. Even if he did contract it in the NAM tests, it is far more likely he would have begun exhibiting symptoms prior to his conviction due to the average incubation periods (excluding the fact that males have more rapid disease progression than females). A full two thirds of all infected individuals exhibit liver cirrhosis in the first 30 years.





I see no reason to assume he contracted this disease while in prison.


And I see no reason to assume he DIDN'T get it in prison as I outlined above.

It never was documented prior to his conviction, was only diagnosed after he was imprisoned, and would in fact be a major irony to his cause if contracted in prison.

And again, no documented evidence that Jack himself suggested he contracted it in the NAM experiments.

The suggestion as far as I am concerned based on any information I have found is that that particular bit of news (the NAM experiments caused his infection) just mysteriously appeared while he was imprisoned, and so far cannot be substantiated.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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silly me.

What was I thinking? In my role as devil's advoate, I forgot that whatever may have been leaked, planted, printed about his condition may NOT be the truth.
So, certainly he could have recently contracted the disease.

But, wouldn't an elderly, high-profile inmate who exhibits eccentric behavior be routinely seen medically?



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:01 PM
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Hepatitis C is only transmitted blood-to-blood (not even unprotected sex will do it) so unless someone attacked him with a bloody syringe, I doubt he would have contracted it in jail. The story that he contracted it by blood transfusion is much more likely.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
silly me.

What was I thinking? In my role as devil's advoate, I forgot that whatever may have been leaked, planted, printed about his condition may NOT be the truth.
So, certainly he could have recently contracted the disease.

But, wouldn't an elderly, high-profile inmate who exhibits eccentric behavior be routinely seen medically?


Not at all DTOM.

That is the whole purpose of this bboard, to discuss and consider all angles and possibilities of conspiracy.




posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:14 PM
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I'd say he probably got it while delivering death. Health workers get stuck all the time. Health worker...lol

He more than likely stuck a Hep-c patient then accidently stuck himself. If I remember right I think one his "patients" was a Hep-C victim.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Hepatitis C is only transmitted blood-to-blood (not even unprotected sex will do it) so unless someone attacked him with a bloody syringe, I doubt he would have contracted it in jail. The story that he contracted it by blood transfusion is much more likely.


If you would read the PBS link provided above a couple of posts, there is no mention that He himself had transfusion, only a patient and his assistant in two different tests. In fact I cannot find ANY statement anywhere where HE was a recipient of transfusion or participant in the tests HE administered.




Some info...




The rate of hepatitis C infection is higher in the prison population than in the general population, with estimates ranging from 28% to 67%. This is probably due to the fact that injection drug use is very common among those who are in prison. In fact, about 80% of the nation's estimated 1.7 million IV drug users have been through the prison system. And 80% of those in prison admit to having used illegal drugs; about 1 in 4 have injected illegal drugs.

Hepatitis C is also very common in the homeless population, again due to the presence of hepatitis C risk factors such as injection drug use and high-risk sexual behavior. A study of homeless adults in the Los Angeles area found that 22% were infected with the hepatitis C virus.

Hepatitis C and the Prison Population


and...




Although injection drug use and receipt of infected blood/blood products are the most common routes of HCV infection, any practice, activity, or situation that involves blood-to-blood exposure can potentially be a source of HCV infection.



en.wikipedia.org...


Just some fyi stuff for reference.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by smirkley]



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I'd say he probably got it while delivering death. Health workers get stuck all the time. Health worker...lol

He more than likely stuck a Hep-c patient then accidentally stuck himself. If I remember right I think one his "patients" was a Hep-C victim.



Only 10% of accidentally-stuck-by-infected-needle health care workers are reported to contract the disease.




All a federal agent that wishes to inflict retaliation or retribution on, for someone in prison that they wish to make "an example" of publicly, is payoff one of the hardcore lifer inmates with some additional percs, if the person were to be "accidentally" stuck while in the general population.

Yup, I can see it happening very easily. And very conveniently too.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Some more info.

Tell me this doesn't show that he was making progress with his efforts before sent to prison.



source


December 12, 1990
District Court Judge Gerald McNally dismisses murder charge against Kevorkian in death of Adkins.

July 21, 1992
Oakland County Circuit Court Judge David Breck dismisses charges against Kevorkian in deaths of Miller and Wantz. Oakland County Prosecutor Richard Thompson appeals.

January 27, 1994
Circuit Court Judge dismisses charges against Kevorkian in two deaths, becoming the fifth lower court judge in Michigan to rule that assisted suicide is a constitutional right.

May 2, 1994
A Detroit jury acquits Kevorkian of charges he violated the state's assisted suicide ban in the death of Thomas Hyde.

May 10, 1994
The Michigan Court of Appeals strikes down the state's ban on assisted suicide on the grounds it was enacted unlawfully.

November 8, 1994
Oregon becomes the first state to legalize assisted suicide when voters pass a tightly restricted Death with Dignity Act. But legal appeals keep the law from taking effect.

October 30, 1995
A group of doctors and other medical experts in Michigan announces its support of Kevorkian, saying they will draw up a set of guiding principles for the "merciful, dignified, medically-assisted termination of life."

February 1, 1996
New England Journal of Medicine publishes massive studies of physicians attitudes towards doctor-assisted suicide in Oregon and Michigan. Studies demonstrate that a large number of physicians surveyed support, in some conditions, doctor-assisted suicide.

March 6, 1996
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco rules that mentally competent, terminally ill adults have a constitutional right to aid in dying from doctors, health care workers and family members. It is the first time a federal appeals court endorses assisted suicide.

March 8, 1996
A jury acquits Kevorkian in two deaths.

April 1,1996
Trial begins in Kevorkian's home town of Pontiac in the deaths of Miller and Wantz. For the start of his third criminal trial, he wears colonial costume--tights, a white powdered wig, and big buckle shoes--a protest against the fact that he is being tried under centuries-old common law. He would face a maximum of five years in prison and a $10, 000 fine if convicted in the Wantz/Miller deaths. On May 14, 1996 the jury acquitted him.

June 12, 1997
In Kevorkian's fourth trial, a judge declares a mistrial. The case is later dropped.

November 5, 1997
Oregon residents vote to uphold the state's assisted suicide law, the first of its kind in the nation. The law allows doctors to prescribe lethal doses of drugs to terminally ill patients.

March 15, 2000
Kevorkian gets receives Civil Activist Award from the Gleitsman Foundation




Well, it is obvious, thru much attempt to prevent his actions and assistance in dignified death, that at least one state took it to completion.

This effort and attention has all but been snubbed since Jack has been in prison, and now all you hear about is the negativity of him and his directions.

He made significant grounds for the cause, far more than any other person could have, and technically martyred himself for the cause.


Yes, he is an example, but not the example the feds nor the ney-sayers had hoped for. He had to be dealt with in order to prevent this 'wave' of legalization from continuing. But the cause lives on.


[edit on 21-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 09:37 PM
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Being able to die with dignity when you are terminally ill should be available.
It baffles me that the powers that be would prefer to keep those holding on by a thread alive. Is it greed? Is it religion? :shk:

He may be held as an example, but I am sure there are plenty in the medical community who do their bit to provide a dignified opportunity.
Although my mother was appalled, I remember a nurse who offered some pills to "ease" my dad's final days. I'm sure that nurse is not alone.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Being able to die with dignity when you are terminally ill should be available.
It baffles me that the powers that be would prefer to keep those holding on by a thread alive. Is it greed? Is it religion? :shk:


I have never asked myself the motivation behind it until I read what you just said DontTread. I wonder what it could be, they have to know that when there is no hope someone should have the choice. Damn corrupt leadership in this country.

I have seen people that are at the point of just wanting to let go and cannot. We had one that was a lost cause, she was in such bad shape she fractured her Femur while using the restroom. This is the biggest bone in the body and will most times take a vehicle accident to fracture such a massive bone. The pain we put her through getting her backboarded was terrible. I knew she wouldnt survive after we took her into the hospital. She should have had a choice to have not wasted away to that point. She may have decided to keep going or to die, but she should have had that choice.



Originally posted by smirkley
Only 10% of accidentally-stuck-by-infected-needle health care workers are reported to contract the disease.


I am pretty sure this is the case because most health care workers that are in a position to use needles on patients have had a hep-c shot. More than likely Kevorkian never would have had this series of shot becuase he was an MD, and does not use needles on his patients, he ould have a nurse do it.

Your statement is out of context and is misleading.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I'd say he probably got it while delivering death. Health workers get stuck all the time. Health worker...lol

He more than likely stuck a Hep-c patient then accidently stuck himself. If I remember right I think one his "patients" was a Hep-C victim.




Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by smirkley
Only 10% of accidentally-stuck-by-infected-needle health care workers are reported to contract the disease.

Your statement is out of context and is misleading.


My statement was only in reply to your prior post and completely in context to your post. I wanted to reply to demonstrate that (approx) 10% of ALL accidental-infected-needle-sticks on health care workers are reported to contract the disease to demonstrate that an accidental (infected) stick only causes 1 in 10 health care workers to be infected. (and yes, most all health care workers now are in fact reciepient of the hep-c shot as part of compliance with safety standards related to their job)





For additional reference : An external image demonstrates the rather small level of incidence back in 1960 - approx 25,000 per year in the US in 1960 for males, quite rare at the time and likely limited to certain social classes.

aje.oxfordjournals.org... - source



[edit on 22-11-2006 by smirkley]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by smirkley
My statement was only in reply to your prior post and completely in context to your post. I wanted to reply to demonstrate that (approx) 10% of ALL accidental-infected-needle-sticks on health care workers are reported to contract the disease to demonstrate that an accidental (infected) stick only causes 1 in 10 health care workers to be infected. (and yes, most all health care workers now are in fact reciepient of the hep-c shot as part of compliance with safety standards related to their job)


Now your statement is in context. Thank you. I am sure ole mad Jack didnt do the series of shots, or he shouldnt have been infected. I understand where you are coming from, I am just trying to "DenyIgnorance". I find you original post to be very infomative and well written. You never know, he may be gettng paid back by some powerful people. I just dont think so is all, I am wrong quite often.



posted on Dec, 7 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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Well Well Well, it looks like there may be some truth to what I suggest.

Take a gander at this article, and even from the same prison system as Jack resides,...



Mich. Prison System Held in Contempt

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the state Department of Corrections to hire more prison doctors within four months, saying that health care for inmates is dysfunctional and endangers their lives.

U.S. District Judge Richard Enslen also threatened $2 million in fines and found the prison agency in contempt of court.

-snip-

"What he does not deserve is a de facto and unauthorized death penalty at the hands of a callous and dysfunctional health care system that regularly fails to treat life-threatening illness," Enslen wrote.

-snip-

Enslen said it took 40 days to test a patient with blood in his urine. Another inmate complained of a mole on his back, and despite a doctor saying it should be removed surgically, there were many delays. Later testing showed malignant melanoma and that the cancer had spread while the patient was awaiting treatment.



So yes, here is a court suggesting that going to prison CAN be a death penalty in of itself. It would be nothing to 'utilize' this disfunctional health care system for a more devious purpose as I have suggested.



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