Team Quebec

Guy Bertrand, a well known Quebec lawyer, is pushing for their province to be represented in International competitions.

Yeah I know this is sports related, but it has a political agenda. I hope its acceptable.

QUEBEC (CP) - A well-known Quebec lawyer is urging Premier Jean Charest to get involved in helping to create a Team Quebec that would play in the 2008 world hockey championships.

Guy Bertrand says it would be fitting to have such a team because part of the 2008 tournament will be played in Quebec City.

Bertrand says Hockey Canada has told him Quebec can't have a team because it is not a country.

But the lawyer, who has embraced sovereignty again after a six-year flirt with federalism, says Quebec is a nation that has the right to be represented at international tournaments.

Part of the 2008 worlds will also be played in Halifax.
tsn.ca...

This really boils my blood. I understand they are the only French province but why the steady inclination to stand alone? I really don't think they would be capable of governing themselves, not to mention our country as we know it would collapse. Eastern Canada would be distanced from the mainland and be left in the dark.

Is it just me or is this a slick way to back door the separation agenda?

I love my country and I am proud to be Canadian, more than anything. This past summer I was within inches of representing my country on the international stage. I clamored over it for weeks, hell I still do today. More for the kids but it was a serious let down. The fact is, representing my country was something I was ready to do anything for. When I see someone who turns their back on that and is pushing for separation, it is an immense slap to the face of our citizens and our country.

When the referendum concluded and the majority spoke, that should of been the end of it. I'm not in a position to put a time frame on it but for so many years the issue should be obsolete. When it is raised, point the finger to the referendum and say G'Day Sir!.

This issue has been discussed, but where do our Canadian members stand? Are we taking the, If they want to go Let 'em go thinking? Or does the success of our nation hinge on the inclusion of Quebec?

Probably does not hinge on Quebec, but their presence is something that makes us great. Our diversity is what makes us special, I for one do not want to lose that.

Bertrand is not dealing with the Fed here, Hockey Canada will tell him to pound sand, rightfully so. If French players want to play on Team CANADA fine. If not we can still field a competative team without them.

Originally posted by intrepid
Bertrand is not dealing with the Fed here, Hockey Canada will tell him to pound sand, rightfully so. If French players want to play on Team CANADA fine. If not we can still field a competative team without them.

Certainly. I appreciate the stance Hockey Canada will take, while the Feds will try to be much more sensitive on the subject. Creating a bit of a noise can work wonders for some.

My main problem is the way they are trying to back door the issue. If Bertrand wants to talk about separation, then talk about it. Don't beat around the bush by pushing for Quebec to be recognized on the international sports scene.

Quebec is absolutely not entitled to field their own team. If Quebec gets their own team then technically, every First Nation tribe is entitled to have their own team. They are 'separate nations'. And as of late, the First Nations are a heck of a lot easier to get along with.

Except for that whole Caledonia thing.

Why does everything that Quebec does have to be about being different?

There is no 'I' in team.

*sigh*

This is very politcally motivated. They want to have another referendum after the provincial elections and they want to make out like English Canada are a bunch of big meanies who drag them down.

They don't seem to understand that there are plenty of French-Canadians who don't live in Quebec. French-Canadians aren't 'special' because they are from Quebec, they are 'special' because they are French-Canadians. There are tons of English-speaking people in Quebec, and lots of new Canadians who don't want to be a separate nation. There are lots of French-speaking communities in English Canada, New Brunswick has quite a lot.

Way out here on the West Coast, I happen to live in a lovely area called Maillardville. The museum has a French name, half the stores have French names and if the sign says cafe, it's a cafe - complete with French menu. There's even a credit union that has everything in French including all the signs and you have to ask someone if you want forms in English.

The whole idea is supposed to be that French-Canadians can go anywhere they want in Canada and still be French-Canadian, not that they all have to live in Quebec to be 'special'.

I am very ignorant in Canadian affairs. What is a "first nation"? does the French half of Canada have a history or tendancy to want to be independant?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
What is a "first nation"?

It's an ethnic term we use in Canada.

First Nations is a term of ethnicity used in Canada. It refers to indigenous peoples of North America located in what is now Canada, and their descendants, who are not Inuit or Métis. Collectively, First Nations, Inuit, and Métis peoples are known as Aboriginal peoples, First peoples, or Indigenous peoples, bands, or nations. A national representative body of the First Nations in Canada is the Assembly of First Nations.

First Nations people have been referred to as Indians, Native Americans, Native Canadians, Aboriginal Americans, Amerindians, Autochthones (a term used by French Canadians), and Aboriginal peoples. They are known officially by the Government of Canada as registered Indians if they are entitled to benefits under the Indian Act.

It is now used in the United States (although those in the U.S. still usually use either "Indians" or increasingly "Native Americans"). In fact, the First Nations Development Institute "is working to restore Native control and culturally-compatible stewardship of the assets they own - be they land, human potential, cultural heritage, or natural resources - and to establish new assets for ensuring the long-term vitality of Native communities" (see www.firstnations.org).

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally Posted by Rockpuck
does the French half of Canada have a history or tendancy to want to be independant?

More like very small percentage. Quebec is the only French province, while New Brunswick is the only Bilingual province. Most people assume Canada is dominated by the French language, but it is quite the opposite.

They've said for awhile they wish to govern themselves. They had a referendum in 1996 (I believe) to separate from Canada. I think it was like 50.2% to 49.8% in favor of remaining a Canadian province.

Ever since names have been popping up to proclaim the separation movement in Quebec. Not all French people believe in it, but some do.

Duze has said it best in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Duzey
French-Canadians aren't 'special' because they are from Quebec, they are 'special' because they are French-Canadians.

They are French-Canadians. This point should be reinforced. Well said Duze.

chissler got there first, but I'll post my answer anyways.

First Nation is the Canadian term for Native American. 'First' because they were here before us and the 'Nations' are the different tribes.

Quebec does have a bit of a history with this separation thing. I'll try to give a quick and simple version.

About 20 years ago, there were provincial votes on a set of Constitutional Amendments which have a clause that said Quebec was 'special'. Quebec wanted the amendments because they were mad because they didn't like the Canada Act, our constitution, but the feds pushed it through over their objections.

Many people in English Canada didn't like the amendments because it said Quebec was a 'distinct society'. The poor choice of words with no definition turned voters against the accord. Several provincial governments had to take back their support and vote against it or be kicked out of power. The agreement died, and now Quebec has the occasional referendum on whether they should be their own country.

The one time the politicians listen to the people, it cause us no end of troubles. How ironic is that? :shk:


Thanks for the compliment chissler (whose name I compulsively want to capitalize because it goes against everything I was taught about proper nouns ) and this is a lovely thread you have going here.

Originally posted by Duzey
Thanks for the compliment chissler (whose name I compulsively want to capitalize because it goes against everything I was taught about proper nouns

) and this is a lovely thread you have going here.

Too funny Duze. It's funny because I have this name for several online sites. And every one of them I have the C capitalized. I signed up for TinWiki the other day and I capitalized it. I hate it! I'm so glad I did not make it an upper case with ATS. I was thinking about this one yesterday actually, funny you should mention it.

Back to the topic!

It's NOT a French thing. My paternal Grandmother was French, from New Brunswick. Quebec has a LARGE French base, they use it to influence federal policy when the Quebecer's are actually a small potion of the country. Quebecer's NOT French. There are many French parts of Canada. In Nova Scotia, in NB, in Ontario, in Manitoba. Why are ONLY the French in Quebec a "distinct society"? Why do the French of Quebec hold the rest of the country in a state of blackmail, including the FRENCH that don't live in Quebec.

I'd be curious to know what the numbers of French in the rest of Canada is, to what's in Quebec. I'd wager it's close. I think this is what chissler is getting at. Not FRENCH, Quebecious.

There's about 7 million in Canada and around 6 million live in Quebec. It doesn't seem like it's about French-Canadian, it's about being from Quebec.

The whole thing seems kind of snobby to me. Somehow the people in Quebec are different from the rest of Canada, just because they live in Quebec.

If Quebec does by some miracle get their own hockey team for the championships, I would like to make a suggestion:



Vive des Nordiques de Quebec!

Without a doubt they could place a team that could compete on the international stage. Wouldn't mind those digs either.

But the slap to the face of our nation can not be ignored.

Quebec, slapping the face of the rest of the country? Quel surprise!

What else can we do but ignore it? Getting mad at them only gives the separatists more grist for the mill.

'Look Quebec voters, English Canada hates and doesn't respect us. Vote Oui in the next referendum!'

Its a lose lose situation.

It boggles my mind, because every Quebecer that I have met, were great people. I lived in Red Deer, Alberta, for a summer and a group of guys had also moved up at the same time. We worked at the same factory and became pretty good friends. They were mainly French, but spoke fairly good English and as long as I annunciated, they could hear me fine.

I keep in touch the odd time, and they do not fit this stereotype at all. None of them do. Always polite, non-smokers and they would never speak French when I was around. This was not something I asked for, and often objected to it. But they were set on speaking English when I was around. I forced them to speak French from time to time and I began to pick up a little bit. I could actually do the "Wazzup" Budweiser commercial in two languages for a shirt time. Quite the accomplishment.

Is this a case where its the loud ones being heard? The minority are louder than the majority, so it is only their voice being heard?


[edit on 4-11-2006 by chissler]

Like the old adage suggests, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The only time you will see any anti-separatists on the news is before a referendum. I don't have any idea how many people from Quebec support the idea of separating. They'll let us know in a couple of years.

On the positive side, I had an epiphany.

We have been concentrating on this request to allow Quebec to field a team at the World Championships being a bad thing. How this is a slap in the face to the rest of us and it shouldn't be allowed to happen. That this is a sneaky way to sneak sovereignty in the back door.

Au contraire, mes amis.

We have missed the most important thing about about this whole discussion. Hockey. There is nothing more important than the goal of Canadian dominance at the 2008 World Hockey Championships.

Allowing Team Quebec to compete on an international stage will allow Canada to bring both the Gold and the Silver home.

Originally posted by DuzeyAllowing Team Quebec to compete on an international stage will allow Canada to bring both the Gold and the Silver home.

And then we'd fight over who pwns the gold...Canada or Quebec.

Znort

Chissler, you bring up a good point, a little off topic (hockey) but still something I'd like to comment on.

I spent some time in Quebec this past summer, camping, in close proximity with a lot of Quebeckers. In fact, all I heard from dawn 'til dusk was French.

But, being primarily an English speaker, as soon as I said anything at all they would immediately switch to English even when I was trying hard to say something intelligent in French.

There were all ages there and they numbered close to a thousand packed into a very small area. We were cheek to jowl...

l felt very welcome and at ease with these great people.

But Team Canada is Canadienne/Canadian.

Originally posted by Duzey
Allowing Team Quebec to compete on an international stage will allow Canada to bring both the Gold and the Silver home.

We want nothing to do with Silver. Quebec taking the Silver would only indicate that a Canadian lost the gold, thanks but no thanks.

Originally posted by masqua
And then we'd fight over who pwns the gold...Canada or Quebec.

Well, only if Quebec won gold.

Originally posted by masqua
Chissler, you bring up a good point, a little off topic (hockey) but still something I'd like to comment on.

Well Canada is synonymous with Hockey. This is the politics of hockey so.... yeah. Can't sneak nothing by you guys.

Originally posted by masqua
l felt very welcome and at ease with these great people.

Yeah, I know exactly what your saying. I think Duzey is right when she says, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This most certainly could be a case of a mouthy minority making a bad reputation for the province.

A pissed off customer is known to tell 10-20 people about a bad experience, while a satisfied customer may only tell 1 or 2. This seems to tell the story here. The only time we hear of Quebec is when someone is pissed off about something. We never hear about how great it is to be a part of Canada, or how happy they are to be a part of our hockey team. They do exist, but they are the silent majority.

Silent, yes. Majority, I hope so.

Way to squash my dream of Canadian unity.

This is just the beginning; I'm sure there will be plenty more of these ideas that come up the closer Quebec gets to provincial elections.

I'm seriously considering moving to Quebec.

If I do, watch out, because I'm going to be wanting to seperate, back a Team Quebec and ultimately desire the throne of the new country.

masqua I, the Sun King

ZNORT



[edit on 7/11/06 by masqua]

Originally posted by Duzey
I'm sure there will be plenty more of these ideas that come up the closer Quebec gets to provincial elections.

Without a doubt.

Whats the date for the Quebec elections?

Originally posted by masqua
ZNORT

Who in the what now?