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iraqi youth want soldiers out of their country

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posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 01:13 PM
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WASHINGTON - Majorities of Iraqi youth in Arab regions of the country believe security would improve and violence decrease if the U.S.-led forces left immediately, according to a State Department poll that provides a window into the grim warnings provided to policymakers.
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The survey — unclassified, but marked "For Official U.S. Government Use Only" — also finds that Iraqi leaders may face particular difficulty recruiting young Sunni Arabs to join the stumbling security forces. Strong majorities of 15- to 29-year-olds in two Arab Sunni areas — Mosul and Tikrit-Baquba — would oppose joining the Iraqi army or police

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

/y26896


the survey does raise some issues of its own, though. for one thing, the sample sizes were quite small, and the survey doesn't say how many people refused to take it. however, it the results of that survey are anything close to accurate, 'hearts and minds' are now out of the question. the next generation of Iraqis ave already decided who their enemy is.




posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 02:15 PM
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If they want us out of their land, then they are going to have to take responcibility and stand up for themselves.

If they want us out of their country, then they should not have let the problem get out of hand and out of their control.

If they want us out of their Iraq, maybe they should have prevented the BS before it started, now we WILL finish it.

If...
They were older and more mature, then we would not have to be their to show them how to do it for them selves. Let them learn from their mistakes, and hopefully remember such in the future.

Until then, we are going to stay there, and keep cleaning up their mess.

The truth hurts, but it is still the truth.
What is cut, stays cut.



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Could this video of Iraqi youth being beaten by British troops have anything to do with the youth wanting foreign soldiers off their fathers land?

video.google.com...



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
If they want us out of their land, then they are going to have to take responcibility and stand up for themselves.

If they want us out of their country, then they should not have let the problem get out of hand and out of their control.

If they want us out of their Iraq, maybe they should have prevented the BS before it started, now we WILL finish it.

If...
They were older and more mature, then we would not have to be their to show them how to do it for them selves. Let them learn from their mistakes, and hopefully remember such in the future.

Until then, we are going to stay there, and keep cleaning up their mess.

The truth hurts, but it is still the truth.
What is cut, stays cut.


huh? the survey was about iraqi youth, not the population as a whole. you're advocating children taking up arms and going into the streets? exactly what bs did the children start? ....you didn't even read the link...how exactly were the children supposed to stop anything?

edit:
fixed spelling
[edit on 22-10-2006 by karby]


[edit on 22-10-2006 by karby]

edit:
adding:

when i say 'children' i'm referring to the ones in that survey ages 15-18 yrs old. how many 18-29 yr olds anywhere in any nation can take charge of their country. hell, the youth here in the USA don't even vote, much less take to the streets.

[edit on 22-10-2006 by karby]



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Id like to see a tally, on how many people believe the violence is due to OUTSIDE influence.

How many young Iraqi's are perpared to battle the iranians that have taken over religous sects?

Lemme see,

Your killed if you help the americans.
Your killed if you belong to a religous faction.
Your caught and detained if you DONT assist the americans.
Your poor and starving if you try to continue a normal life.

But your paid money, and offered protection if you choose to
-battle the americans
-battle the religous sects
-provide information on USA movements.

Seems to me, they dont have much choice on living a 'peaceful' life any more.

Was it this bad under saddam?



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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There are child fighters in Africa, and from what I have seen on the videos and read of them, they are very much capable. Not that it is right, or should be, not to leave them out would be sort of ignorant also.

There are entire units of nothing but child fighters in Africa and other places, for sure. They are smaller, harder to see and shoot and can blend in much easier than adults. I am not saying it is right, very much wrong it is, but that is the way things are there.

I don't see the mid east as any different, I can see your point though and was only adding my two cents.

Maybe I should not have, obviously mods are not members here any more...




[edit on 26-10-2006 by ADVISOR]



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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Advisor, my comment had less to do with the fact that you're a mod, and more to do with what you said about kids starting the bs going on in their country. in fact, it had nothing to do with you being a moderator...i hadn't even noticed the mod tag until you mentioned it...but i digress...


There are child fighters in Africa, and from what I have seen on the videos and read of them, they are very much capable. Not that it is right, or should be, not to leave them out would be sort of ignorant also.

There are entire units of nothing but child fighters in Africa and other places, for sure. They are smaller, harder to see and shoot and can blend in much easier than adults. I am not saying it is right, very much wrong it is, but that is the way things are there.


first you say they should stop with the bs, but then you say they should pick up guns and fight, aka African child soldier style...
i do not agree with this at all. if the stance you have on Africa is taken and implemented in the ME, the USoA will become the evil monster in the eyes of the world, even 100 times more so that we already are. to have an invading country's army start battling children...i don't see how it would be possible to create a rationale that would allow the US to stand on anything other than "satan's ground," so to speak.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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I NEVER said they should "pick up guns and fight".
You said that, dont misconstrue my wordage for some bs, all I did was point out a fact and that is all. If you want to make this into some freak show go ahead, but don't drag my arse into your circus, I will just get pissed off and insulted, as any one would.

Quoteing myself here;


I am not saying it is right, very much wrong it is


So where did I advocate them taking up arms? They should stop with the BS, they are kids, but in many third world nations the adult have been massacured and the children left to fend for themselves. So if the left behind children are going to do something again quoteing myself;



If...
They were older and more mature, then we would not have to be their to show them how to do it for them selves.


I hope that is clear, if there is any further misunderstanding on your end or mine, let us just ignore it and move on, this thread don't need to be derailed because of what I am seeing as your PR fits.

No hard feelings onmy end, just dont like others putting words out that I never used. Obviously we both need to just put each other on ignore or some thing.


So lets start over. Hello, my nick is ADVISOR and I joined ATS in 03 to deny ignorance while keeping tabs in current events and socializing with other who feel same. Nice to meet your aquaintance.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
I NEVER said they should "pick up guns and fight".
You said that, dont misconstrue my wordage for some bs, all I did was point out a fact and that is all. If you want to make this into some freak show go ahead, but don't drag my arse into your circus, I will just get pissed off and insulted, as any one would.

Quoteing myself here;


I am not saying it is right, very much wrong it is


So where did I advocate them taking up arms?
oh. i'm sorry then.
i thought it was implied when you mentioned the African child soldiers. right or wrong, it's well known that those guys don't deal with their perceived threats with words and signs and peace marches. they do it with guns and knives.

They should stop with the BS, they are kids, but in many third world nations the adult have been massacured and the children left to fend for themselves.

"fend for themselves." how exactly do you think they do this? obviously, not peacefully, not with all the wackjobs floating around out there...or am i assuming too much?


So if the left behind children are going to do something again quoteing myself;
If...
They were older and more mature, then we would not have to be their to show them how to do it for them selves.

I hope that is clear, if there is any further misunderstanding on your end or mine, let us just ignore it and move on, this thread don't need to be derailed because of what I am seeing as your PR fits.


excuse me? that statement is really uncalled for. if i did in fact misinterpret your words, then all you had to do was say so. you were the one mentioned African child soldiers, not me, and from my end, that is where the misunderstanding came from. if in fact your word were misconstrued, simply say so, and clarify what you meant.

This is what you originall posted:


1:If they want us out of their land, then they are going to have to take responcibility and stand up for themselves.

2:If they want us out of their country, then they should not have let the problem get out of hand and out of their control.

3:If they want us out of their Iraq, maybe they should have prevented the BS before it started, now we WILL finish it.

4If...
They were older and more mature, then we would not have to be their to show them how to do it for them selves. Let them learn from their mistakes, and hopefully remember such in the future.

5:Until then, we are going to stay there, and keep cleaning up their mess.

The truth hurts, but it is still the truth.
What is cut, stays cut.

1: how exactly do you propose they do this?
2:they're too young. i seriously doubt that they could've done anything to stop the problem that is now Iraq.
3: again, they are too young. how could they have prevented anything?
4:...what mistakes?? being born?? ...please clarify..
5: given the ages of those who took the survey, i don't think they carry the brunt of the responsibilty for what is going on in Iraq..



No hard feelings onmy end, just dont like others putting words out that I never used. Obviously we both need to just put each other on ignore or some thing.


my interpretation of your words was implied by your mention of child soldiers.
/yjkefr
what's described in the link above is what comes to mind when one mentions child soldiers...




There are child fighters in Africa, and from what I have seen on the videos and read of them, they are very much capable. Not that it is right, or should be, not to leave them out would be sort of ignorant also.

There are entire units of nothing but child fighters in Africa and other places, for sure. They are smaller, harder to see and shoot and can blend in much easier than adults. I am not saying it is right, very much wrong it is, but that is the way things are there.

whether it's right or wrong, you drew parallels between the youths of Iraq, and the the use of children as combatants in Africa. if you are not advocating them taking up arms, why make any mention of the bold underlined statement above?...please clarify your analogy between the young people in Iraq and the African child soldiers. as it stands, you are not saying that Iraqi youth should take up arms...but if that's not the case, i really don't see the connection between the two...



So lets start over. Hello, my nick is ADVISOR and I joined ATS in 03 to deny ignorance while keeping tabs in current events and socializing with other who feel same. Nice to meet your aquaintance.

...nice to meet you too.

...i don't think there is anything i can say/write that won't offend you. you mention child soldiers...then go beserk when the most obvious connection between Iraqi youths and child soldiers is drawn...i apologize for misunderstanding you, but i suppose now the only thing i'm asking you to do is to clarify your analogy between the two. because, truthfully, i really don't see it...

(edit: fixed spelling...and grammar :@@


[edit on 27-10-2006 by karby]



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by karby
am i assuming too much

Yes, and you should not.

Again, I did not "go beserk", I may be Scandinavian, but I have not lost my temper or even gotten upset. Is it me or do you have a habit of making assumptions, never assume any thing, that in my opinion is your first mistake.

I am not hiding a meaning inside of what I type, I'm being very clear in my statement. If you choose to "assume", I mean other than what I have pointed out, as a informational fact, not as a solution, then that is your ignorance not mine.

All I have done is point out how things could be much worse for those 15y/o+ youths.
The "kids" in africa I am talking about, are under the age of 15.

Again, I have pointed out what I think, and you chose to "assume" (your words not mine) I meant that as a way for them to handle the situation, and it IS NOT.

I said they should learn from our US Armed Forces example, use of deadly force is a last resort tactic, not a cure all. The US Military has brought medical supplies and the know how to use those meds, correctly. Along with the means to properly assess the situation and respond appropriately, most of those people dont even have doctors and the closest thing to that is the combat medics helping them.

They need help, whether or not they can lose their pride to ask, as many have they require assistance from other nations, and the US is not one to turn it's back on those in need. Unlike many other nations who are to scared or gutless to get involved.

My "analogy" is that things could be WAY WORSE for them over there than it is. That is all I was pointing out with my "Africa reference", perhaps I should not have even bothered....

It is their problem, but obviously the adults are not able to help, so they are going to have to deal with a US presence, and they have to learn from all of this, or else it will repeat. If they can not handle it alone, who else is going to help them?


Sure as hell not themselves, otherwise in my opinion none of it would have occured, but it did and is, too late to just call it quits.

They are teens and young adults, not new born infants, or preteens, they are able to go to the proper authorities and ask for help. I did not mean to make it seem like I was implying they take matters into their own hands, but instead was attempting to show how things could be much much worse.

Good luck with the rest of this thread, I'm done posting to this as all I feel is that you are baiting my words. No one else that I am aware of misunderstood my post,
so let's just leave it at that.

Take care and hope you get out of this what ever it is you intended.


[edit on 28-10-2006 by ADVISOR]



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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uhh...i wasn't baiting...or at least i wasn't trying to...just looking for some clarification on your point of view. i'm sorry if it felt that way, but really, i didn't see it...
what i'm looking to get out if this thread is the same thing i'm looking to get out of any other thread...other persons opinions/point of views...nothing more nothing less. and yes, the assumption on my part was indeed a mistake. i apologize, i should've asked first. but yes, i do understand what you're saying, and, yes, it could be worse. but an explaination was pretty much all i was looking for...

[edit on 28-10-2006 by karby]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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If they want us out of their land, then they are going to have to take responcibility and stand up for themselves.


What do you mean, that's what they are doing, standing up for themselves and getting you out of their land.
It's called the resistance, and it's becoming very effective.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 08:51 AM
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What choices this youth have? Is not jobs, many have lost their families or at least one parent, is no schools, not life but one of violence and everyday death in their streets.

Yes I agree that they could be manipulated by the forces that are taking over them to control their responses.

But this youth is the generation that was born under nothing but oppression but at least they got control on their lives, family, schools, discipline even if it was under a totalitarian government.

What they got now?



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 08:39 AM
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This argument intrigues me.

People who are pro Islam, Pro Iraq are obsessed with the Coalitions withdrawl from Iraq immediately, but this action as you should know would turn Iraq into a sectarian bloodbath even worse than what weve seen in the News and probably one of the worst in history.

Now the pro Iraq and pro democracy crowd should all be demanding that troops stay the coarse, and the haters of Iraq etc should be demanding withdrawl of Coalition forces.

I ofcourse beleive that the Coalition should stay the coarse and see to it that Iraq is restored to some degree of normality.


Its a crazy crazy world out there.


[edit on 30-10-2006 by NumberCruncher]



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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Majorities of Iraqi youth in Arab regions of the country

Then they should vote for a government that will ask the US to leave. As it stands, the democratically elected government of Iraq has requested that the US stay to put down the violence.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
As it stands, the democratically elected government of Iraq has requested that the US stay to put down the violence.


I don't know about that Nydgan, It seems that the prime minister of Iraq is having second thoughts about US led coallition and his abilities to control his own government.

He has made quite some comments on that problem.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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I suspect that he is merely doing that in order to be able to say to his consituents, 'look i am standing up to them'. If he was really unhappy with the US, he could ask them to leave.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
If he was really unhappy with the US, he could ask them to leave.



And you think that US will very willingly give away thei whole on that nation? I have the feeling that is never to happen until certain goals are already meet, and I am no talking about security per say.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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an open hpothetical question, directed at no one in particular. just asking:
suppose the young persons of Iraq (those 18-29--i don't know the legal Iraqi voting age)
do as Nygdan said, and voted in a government that requested the US, and other troops to leave the country, and the response they got was 'no.'



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