It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by half_minded
It depends on the situation actually. Ill give you example from my own family. I am from a muslim family from india. As you know, there have always been tensions between India and Pakistan (which is a muslim country).
Now if there is a conflict on some physical region, then my parents seem to support india but if there is religion conflict then my parents support pakistan.
And from what I have seen, every muslim guys considers himself Indian first and muslim second. Infact, that goes for the non-muslim friends too.
But hey, the new generation is the one who will shape the future. So, I guess the whole extremism thing in Islam is fading away slowly.
Concept of Umma is very simple. . Prophet Mohammad was the last prophet and it was said that every human being till the end of the world (Judgement Day) is his Umma. Muslims are expected to spread their religion to every soul on earth because everyone is under prophet muhammad's umma. Non-muslim people are considered as the people who have lost the right path and therefore it is the duty of every muslim to bring everyone to the 'right path'.
So its more like saying that we are human. People consider themselves human first then comes the race and distinction.
But we all know that its not the case because not every muslim follows islam wholeheartedly. out of those who follow, there are moderates and extremists.
Moderates, as I described earlier, look at the situtation first. Extremists however are way too engrossed in Islam and consider every single word in the Quran as the absolute final word.
I didnt use a question mark for a reason. I was trying to show that its ridiculous to ask moderate muslims to stand up against extremists becasue its the same as asking every american to stop bush from going to war. 50% were against Bush and 50% muslims are against 'extremists'. So basically my point was to show that criticizing 'moderates' is pointless and expecting them to stop 'extremists' is ridiculous.
And the 'point out....yada yada' is not a trap but a valid request. You cannot just say something about me and not provide atleast a quote or some reasoning to backup ur accusations.
And let me explain it one more time. The 'real point' of the thread is determined by the original post. Anything posted after that should be directly related to the original thread and not detract from it. However, you cannot say that 'the last sentence of my original post had nothing to do with the first sentence'. Because the WHOLE original post comprises the point of the thread. Any replies that follow should stick to the points discussed in the original
Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay them (Q. 9: 5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax (Q. 9: 29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q. 3: 85). It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell (Q. 5: 11), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q. 9: 28). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (Q. 14: 17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that ìthey shall have a great punishment in world hereafterî (Q.5: 34). ìAs for the disbelieversî, it says that ìfor them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rodsî (Q. 22: 9). Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (Q. 9: 23), (Q. 3: 28). Quran asks the Muslims to ìstrive against the unbelievers with great endeavor (Q. 25: 52), be stern with them because they belong to hell (Q. 66: 9). The holy Prophet demanded his follower to ìstrike off the heads of the disbelieversî; then after making a ìwide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captivesî (Q. 47: 4). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (Q. 4:34). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (Q. 66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (Q. 2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (Q. 4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the court (Q. 2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Muhammad allowed the Muslims to marry up to four views and gave them license to sleep with their slave maids and as many ìcaptiveî women as they may have (Q. 4:3). He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women.
www.freerepublic.com...
Originally posted by pugachev
1. Prove that the US is in anyway stealing oil from the middle east.
Originally posted by pugachev
2. Are you so stupid to not understand the reason we are still in that craphole Iraq is because those morons can't stop murdering each other over religious differences?
Originally posted by pugachev
If you haven't figured it out yet no one wants to be in Iraq anymore. If it was up to the American people we would be pulling out tommorow. Those idiot's lives are not worth ANY of our soldier's lives.
Originally posted by pugachev
2 things, half-minded.
1. Prove that the US is in anyway stealing oil from the middle east.
2. Are you so stupid to not understand the reason we are still in that craphole Iraq is because those morons can't stop murdering each other over religious differences?
If you haven't figured it out yet no one wants to be in Iraq anymore. If it was up to the American people we would be pulling out tommorow. Those idiot's lives are not worth ANY of our soldier's lives.
Originally posted by half_minded
The link you posted shows a survey. First of all, I do not look at surveys because they dont give the actual picture. Just a few people cannot speak for the world population.
But notice, I did not say whether the survey was right or wrong.
I agree that many muslims do support the 'terrorists' because in their eyes, the terrorist is US government.
These people do not want the US army in their land. They don't want US dictating them what to do. They don't want US culture affecting them and destroying their culture. They don't like how US misuses its power.
If you think that middle east is jealous of american freedom and success then think again. Middle east has so much oil. And these arabs are rich people. They have nice houses, nice cars, police doesnt touch them, they have a life people could only dream of. Why wud they be jealous of America. My parents live in Kuwait. There are no taxes in kuwait. Both my bro and dad work in kuwait. They both have free housing, free dental, free health, free car, free gas, high salary, no tax on salary. Infact, my bro got offers from US and UK but he refused.
This is the benefits given to immigrants. Imagine the benefits, the citizens enjoy. Yet Americans somehow feel that muslims and arabs are jealous of american freedom and want to attack american because of jealousy.
Its very clear what US is doing. If you look at history and compare the current situation you will get your answer.
Muslims living across the world blend in with society very well. I even created a post titles 'How many muslims you know?'. The post was meant to see wat an average muslim family is like and to see the opinion of people regarding them.
I was not surprised to see that 99% was positive replies. Which itslef is proof that muslims can blend into society and culture just like anhy other human being. There are exceptions but then there always are exception.
Muslims have no such problem of living peacefully with their neighbours but they do have a problem when they are constantly being criticized and looked down upon with suspicion.
[edit on 15-10-2006 by half_minded]
[Arabic 'islm, submission, from 'aslama, to surrender, resign oneself, from Syriac 'alem, to make peace, surrender, derived stem of lem, to be complete; see lm in Semitic roots.]
www.thefreedictionary.com...
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
First one would be your statement about 'religion conflict'. Most Europeans are really 'post-religious', and more interested in their material wealth or personal freedoms, which is perfectly valid, imo.
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
So let's say a Dane draws a satirical cartoon, or the pope states that Islam can be aggressive? Most Westerners would accept that under freedom of speech even if they didn't agree. Do you think muslims should accept this, or at least confine their protests to non-violent actions?
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
I wonder if it comes back to integration - North American muslims seem to integrate, whereas, at least the 7/7 bombers in the UK really didn't.
You talk about north american muslims. What makes you think that muslims across the globe are any different? They also integrate into society and are good citizens. There are always exceptions. The exceptions are not limited to muslims.
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
Thanks for the explanation! I have no problems with the religious except when they start to infringe on my rights to live my life according to Western norms. Do you feel that post-religious people have the right to refuse the message of Islam? Can islam live alongside other religions and the non-religious?
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
OK. But. A muslim in London has religious freedom. A Christian (or Buddhist) in Saudi or Egypt doesn't. I was under the impression 'Umma' meant 'muslim brotherhood', rather than 'human'.
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
What's your position on Sudan and Nigerian provinces imposing sharia law on non-muslims?
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
You posted a long answer! I had to cut your post to get anything else in...I'll go back and try to get at the rest now.
Originally posted by HankMcCoy
It isn't ridiculous. If someone that is representing your religon on an international level is defaming the entire religon by spouting hate, you have the OBLIGATION to seperate yourself from the fringe. You simply stating that extremists ARENT muslims and that the majority of moderates live outside of muslim states would be similar to THEM saying that you are in league with the infidels and that your blood will not be on their hands.
Originally posted by HankMcCoy
No, constantly asking someone to point out your quotes from something in the same thread is counter-productive, and makes you look like you can't follow a conversation.
Originally posted by HankMcCoy
The real point of the your post is as I stated, Argument fodder.
Originally posted by HankMcCoy
The last sentence has NOTHING to do with the first sentence.
Originally posted by HankMcCoy
Now, since I answered your question, I will be done with this thread, as it isn't going to go anywhere else worth sticking around for.
Originally posted by semperfortis
Why would you start a thread with the title, "Try and Argue This, I Dare You"
Then complain when people argue it????
originally posted by half-minded
Contrary to popular belief, Extremists are rare in number and even out of those, only the uneducated and backward people are the ones who actually commit murder and use sharia law.
Printing cartoons of the prophet with bomb on his head is just pure disrespect. Something that freedom of speech does not allow.