skeptics & Belivers come together!

We all have our own thoughts and I would just like to make this thread to show that both of us no matter what side we stand on have something to offer that should be looked at and not just thrown out..
I would say that the two sides balance eachother out in a good way.. One without the other would do us no good to find the truth, we would then only have 1 veiw point! I would say Im a faithful skeptic, I do find truth to both sides! And much like the puzzle of life, we need to work together to find the truth, not call eachother names or put one persons thought out to dry just becasue we didnt read it somewhere.. Yet there is a fine line here that needs to be said, I go way out sometimes to far for most to follow me.. But Im still grounded enough to know that we need to enjoy our lifes, just as much as we need to "know" about life and where we are in this universe.. Where we are from within!
Its a path that takes alot of heart, many sleepless nights, and the want to know that 2 sides are better than 1.. Yet the more sides you get the more questions there are.. So where does one start? discuss...

I often times find myself believing, and then other times being a skeptic. All I know is that there is something going on. I don't have the answers. I can only search for them. What I can tell you, is that when I was searching for answers a lot more in the past, I scared myself into going away from it all for a while. Recently, I have decided to delve back into it, and I hope to finally find the truth. However long it might take, I can wait.

I see nothing wrong with healthy skepticism. However, all too often I see "debunkers" who have this irrational belief that if it can't be explained by science then there is something wrong. Under such circumstances, "debunkers" give us about two choices to consider:

(1) It's all a hoax, a lie.

(2) The people who experienced the phenomena were mistaken in his/her/their interpretation of the stimulus.



Now, given only those two choices, I'd have to say that we live in a pretty cut and dried existence. However, reason dictates that reality is not so cut and dried. As Shakespeare wrote: "There is more in heaven and earth than what is dreamt of in your philosophies." No truer statement has ever been quipped, in my personal opinion.

To live in a "reality" that is as black and white as the "debunkers" do is to deny not only reason but to deny what is experientially obvious.

Often times, I think that people like that say things like that to make themselves feel more safe. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by UnstoppableForce
Often times, I think that people like that say things like that to make themselves feel more safe. Just my two cents.

Possibly. Also, we live in a world where everyone wants to be right. I am sorry but not everyone is right. Someone and all of us are wrong at some time or other.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I see nothing wrong with healthy skepticism. However, all too often I see "debunkers" who have this irrational belief that if it can't be explained by science then there is something wrong. Under such circumstances, "debunkers" give us about two choices to consider:

(1) It's all a hoax, a lie.

(2) The people who experienced the phenomena were mistaken in his/her/their interpretation of the stimulus.

The problem here being?

I've seen a UFO and it was a weird experience, I still don't believe it was an alien craft though.

From my experience "believers" 90% of the time do no favours to the people genuinely trying to to gather evidence and proof to solve the mysteries. The over-reactions of a large number of members on the NASA tracking object near shuttle! thread is proof of that.

To live in a "reality" that is as black and white as the "debunkers" do is to deny not only reason but to deny what is experientially obvious.

How so?

As for the quote:

"There is more in heaven and earth than what is dreamt of in your philosophies."

I couldn't agree more!

I think there's far more genuine mysteries on our own beautiful blue planet than is needed for people to be chasing down the next religion in UFology.

People need an answer to life and God is out-dated, up step ET.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by John Nada]

Originally posted by John Nada


People need an answer to life and God is out-dated, up step ET.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by John Nada]

God is outdated by whose standards?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
God is outdated by whose standards?

By Buddy-Christ's standards.





[edit on 2-10-2006 by John Nada]

That balance sounds good in theory but in reality I don't think it is that simple. A healthy discussion or investigation requires a lot more than two established sides throwing their dogmas at each other without bothering to investigate. Investigation does not need beliefs, skepticism or inspired insights - it may actually do a lot better without any of it.

SpeakerOfTruth, you mentioned one side of that coin but there's another one as well. Just like the fast debunkers you mentioned who will not even take a second look at what is in front of them there is also a massive group of opinions that... well... also don't even bother to take a second look. They see a blur on a picture and give you two choices:

1) It's an Alien.
2) It's a Ghost.

How many times have we seen this happening? Just as some people have an undying faith in that science textbook they read that one day decades ago there are others that have an undying faith in that dream they had that one night.

John Nada said it, this does nothing to favour any sort of investigation.

I simply do not distinguish the opinions of the stuborn debunker from the undying believer in terms of their value to actually learning something. At all. Both will resist any opinion that does not agree with their view of the universe, both will jump to a conclusion in the blink of an eye and neither will actually try to gather information that is helpfull to the investigation.

It is funny that just today I was watching a video on youtube of a light formation and the list of comments was an amazing example. It went from the, "It is fireworks!", to the, "I've talked to these aliens before and I know they're coming!". No questions about what day the footage was taken, about who took it, on where was it taken, what time of the day, if there was any record of the weather that day, whether anyone that lives there can shed a light... nothing. Just quick opinions out of the blue.

Another example:
This last Spring I was in my backyard and saw a huge formation of bright objects very similar to footage I had seen before (think Mexico). It just spread along the sky far up and followed a common pattern curving away until I could see them no more. First I was excited and then I went looking for answers. I asked around and searched the newspapers and eventually found out that there had been an inauguration at that time in a nearby town where they released a massive ammount of white baloons. I bet you that had there been a video of it on the internet the 'balanced' discussion would be something like:

1) "It is clearly birds, don't grab your tinfoil hat yet you loonies!"
2) "It's an alien fleet, you're in denial you sheep!"

And... no one would actually be moving a straw to find out what it actually was.

So my take on it is - "Less balance... more investigation."

(Sorry for the long post I'm usually more silent )

[edit on 2-10-2006 by InTrueFiction]

Originally posted by InTrueFiction

SpeakerOfTruth, you mentioned one side of that coin but there's another one as well. Just like the fast debunkers you mentioned who will not even take a second look at what is in front of them there is also a massive group of opinions that...

You mean "debunkers," emphasis on the quotation. Get it right,now.

Both will resist any opinion that does not agree with their view of the universe, both will jump to a conclusion in the blink of an eye and neither will actually try to gather information that is helpfull to the investigation.

That's what I alluded to when I said that everyone in this world wants to be right. Someone has to be wrong and all of us are wrong about something.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by John Nada

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
God is outdated by whose standards?

By Buddy-Christ's standards.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by John Nada]

He dispelled the notion of the Old Testament blood god,yeah. However, regardless of whether you believe, God is not outdated by any means.

Sorry but the whole Belief or Faith system is what cause me to stay away for good periods of time. UFOs and Aliens - what has happened to equate them with religion?
Sorry - that's way off the deep end verging on cultisms. Just one of the many reasons that make discussions here very difficult.

As a skeptic I prefer to keep it simple. Keep it practcal and level headed. There is no need for faith/belief to cloud my perceptions or taint my view of evidence presented.
Objective analysis keeps things in check.

It's a slippery slope when open minds entertain every concievable image, video, story, or notion as plausable. I'll agree with John Nada there are threads like NASA tracking object near shuttle! and John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS where people go off on uncontroled imaginative tangents.

I'm both. I know there's... Let me rephrase that.

I do not know that there's anything out there. However, given the vast expanse of space, I believe that there might be life existing elsewhere.

That's my "believer" side. My sceptical side is always the winner. I'm sceptical of everything - if something looks like evidence of extra-terrestrial life, I won't say it's so and defend it. I'll be on the opposite side actually, offering simple explanations that on most occassions, is a simple event.

I don't like the idea of blind scepticism or blind "belief" (I don't like using that word). Both should have an open mind to all viewpoints and be aware they can very well be wrong. So many people on this site I've found don't realise that ethics and beliefs etcetera are not universal.

Originally posted by Xar Ke Zeth
I don't like the idea of blind scepticism or blind "belief" (I don't like using that word). Both should have an open mind to all viewpoints and be aware they can very well be wrong. So many people on this site I've found don't realise that ethics and beliefs etcetera are not universal.

Problem is, most skeptics are very blind. If it doesn't fit into their boxed in theory of "reality" they don't pay much attention to it.

This is also true for the believers. You can tell them over and over again that what they see are image artifacts due to zooming or a game of light and shadow or whatever and they will allways ignore you.
Good point Xar Ke Zeth.

Thanks for your thoughts on this everyone!!!
This thread got burried and didnt have much time to put to this..
Now tonight, I have some time and going threw some of my older threads.

Now that much time has passed, I can say, Im still a little of both..
I want to belive, yet I dont buy into every silly idea that is thrown out..
Yet its great fun to romance such ideas, and helps with critical thinking!
As ATS to me is a great mental excerise!
And is great for helping me over come writers block, and the likes!

If I am stumped and cant think up something, I just drop into ATS, read up some threads, and BAM!! my mind is working agin!!