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Proving Proof - Why it never happens!

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posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 05:18 AM
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This is in the vein of so many posts I have read - but I want to understand the phenomenon.

In a nut shell - if its strange, unexplainable or unbelieveable we, as a community never seem to be able to prove it or repeat it. Granted our subject area is, by definition a little bit unusual and yes we have enough blurry pictures, muffled sound recording and shaky videos to run our own cable channel 24 hours a day 365 day a year!

Why in this mass of data and information, amongst a huge community of intelligent discussion makers and investigators can no one prove anything to me sat in my chair here and now.

I am not criticising with this post, but I want to re-awaken my faith in this whole discussion. I want to understand why this is happening and whether it is as a result of BS or because the subject matter is inherently unprovable?

Please add your comments - perhaps a discussion about this without it centering around a particular event or occassion may add some value to how we are doing with this topic these days and whether we have got any further towards the truth.

Thanks,

Q

[edit on 28-9-2006 by Quackmaster]

[edit on 28-9-2006 by Quackmaster]




posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 08:18 AM
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Good post Quack. I have thought about this many times before. It does seem incredible that we have so many photo's and videos but NONE of them are clear or sharp and it does beg the question why this is so. Maybe we get given this level of quality for a very good reason and the good quality stuff is under wraps for certain peoples eyes only, i just can't accept that all we have seen so far is all there IS to see, there is much better evidence out there but we are not allowed to see it.

They release what they want to release, take the recent UK MOD news that they were going to destroy ALL evidence of them ever researching UFO'S prior to Freedom of Information. If they have the power to think and even do this the various authorities in this world can and in my opinion DO withhold the juicy stuff. We get left to pick up the the grainy stuff.....which is a real shame



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 08:52 AM
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Valid point mate. I think we are reaching a saturation point in this field. Even some of the most ardent believers are starting to say 'how much longer....?'

Dont get me wrong, I believe in extra terestrial life - I just dont believe the majority of claims I read on these forums - which is a real shame, because I think there is now a growing comunity of people who just want the light shining on them and will make up all sorts to get it.

What I am hoping this post will lead to is some sort of conversation that examines in detail why the evidence is consistently poor and whether we should be approaching the whole topic from a different direction?



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 08:58 AM
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Yes, good question. And I think we're dealing with a variety of different event-types with no "proof" forthcoming as long as we're looking for some "grand unification theory of UFO-alien type encounters".

My personal opinion is that there are (1) completely terrestrial man-made craft utilizing deeply hidden secret technology [which accounts for the overwhelming majority of reported sightings in the sky] and (2) something else entirely which is unworldly, and for which no explanation is available or maybe even possible.

My favorite thread related to (2) above is Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences by jritzmann. if you haven't read that thread in its entirety, I highly recommend it.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 09:26 AM
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yep but there is always going to be skeptics. even things that are proven to our senses and minds, some just do not accept, so there always will be skeptics, no matter what proof comes out.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
yep but there is always going to be skeptics. even things that are proven to our senses and minds, some just do not accept, so there always will be skeptics, no matter what proof comes out.


You say that as though it would be cool if skeptics disappeared or converted to "believers". What would be better - for skeptics to fade away or for actual proof to come about? Wouldn't you rather have proof?

As I skeptic myself, I'd rather that aliens actually show up and be real than that I would gradually develop (through watching youtube vids) some fuzzy belief system that includes a bunch of random junk



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 10:23 AM
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Another good point, I think we are definately heading towards a time when the skeptic holds more respect, simply because all else has failed to deliver proof of their view point or argument.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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Why in this mass of data and information, amongst a huge community of intelligent discussion makers and investigators can no one prove anything to me sat in my chair here and now.

I am not criticising with this post, but I want to re-awaken my faith in this whole discussion. I want to understand why this is happening and whether it is as a result of BS or because the subject matter is inherently unprovable?


A lot of people are going to blame others, hidden shadow figures or factions for the lack of proof rather than admit to any culpability on the behalf of the theorist.

Beacuse, by definition, it is a conspiracy, it is something that has not been proved but is believed to be true due to inconsistencies, censored information or parts that don't fit.

If we had enough proof to prove something, then it woulddn't be a conspiracy, it would be a fact, and books would have to be rewritten to the true given case of events. The fact that this has never knowingly happened in history shows how rarely (if ever) conspiracies are true, or gain enough proof to be credible.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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I think one of the main problems comes down to level of proof. With todays technology it's possible to fake just about anything. If someone produces a picture of an out-of-focus object then most people would have to discount it as evidence, if someone produces a perfectly focused picture of a flying saucer then most people will say it's to good to be true and therefore a fake.

People who have personnal experiences in either witnessing a ufo or some kind of contact are also in an impossible position, you can't provide concrete proof of a personnal experience, as most people don't walk around armed with an array of the latest gadetry to capture the experience.

It could be argued that there is a mountain of evidence to suggest we are not being visited by anything extra-terresrial but that evidence is hardly disausive (sp) for someone with an experience that can't be explained conventionally.

I think the best anyone can hope for is a personnal experience comfirming for themselves the idea of extra-terrestial life.

I wouldn't expect any concrete proof either way that can be shown to the public any time soon, not in my lifetime anyway.

I don't expect any concrete results from SETI etc anytime soon either, basically because any potential discovery would open up a whole new set of questions as to it's validity.

Most areas of the paranormal are the same, a nightmare to prove and therefore will go on and on.

I personnaly think it will take some major new scientific developements before we can begin to seriously get anywhere with these subjects.

Hopefully i'm completely wrong about the above statement and confirmation is just around the corner, i guess that's why people are so intrigued and keep on looking.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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The phenomenon is long in the tooth and its built in excuse systems have much less merrit thes days. Governments and Military keeping an absolute air tight lid for over 60 years is increasinfgly implausable. Anyone know how many government laptops with critical have been lost/stolen in the last year alone? At times tHe government leaks like a sieve.

We get world events in seconds over wireless devices. If someone tries to pull a stunt and pull the wool over peoples eyes, it often unravels once put into the arena of Internet scrutiny. ATS is a perfect example. How often is UFO/Alien content set up like a Clay Pidgeon shooting gallery.

Some of these stories, images and videos would have stood as legit just 10 years ago because they would start to build a legend status. These days, theres no chance for that. Get enough eyes, ears and objective minds on an issue and you will squash fraud before it gets too long.


[edit on 28-9-2006 by nullster]



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 03:55 AM
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Does this whole subject just require faith if you are going to believe in it? I have been debating on the Reptile thing for a while now and the one thing that convinces me that it is all fake is how the community seem to have a common, well constructed script of reasons why no proof can be given. It seems that more time has been spent designing a defence to their claims than putting a case together to prove their beliefs.

I think this is one of the fundamental reasons why this whole field gets so much scepticism - it just isnt realistic to believe something as true with out being able to factually reason it with yourself.

[edit on 29-9-2006 by Quackmaster]



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