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Originally posted by Columbus
There is no point wasting your time discussing pre-trib vs post-trib, rapture vs no-rapture. Christianity is false and all variations are equally false.
Originally posted by St Udio
that are the epitome of Christian (or any religions') Idealistic aspirations...
“Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory. "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" 1Corinthians 15:51-55.
“For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself WILL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God [1Cor. 15:52] , and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds to MEET THE LORD in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” 1Thessalonians 4:15-17.
Speaker >> Once again, Terral, I will try and give you my view on the whole "rapture" ideology.
Speaker >> I explained in a previous post that you totally ignored that I see the whole "rapture" as being divine protection from God.[snip off-topic rhetoric]
Speaker >> Paul's quote is a reference to the fact that they would have been just as well to be "lifted into the clouds". The believers will be under God's divine protection and guidance. When they are hungry, they will have food.When they thirst, they will have drink.
Speaker >> I have no need for this idea o some mysterious "wisping away," in order to know that God's true people are going to be okay during the coming troubles.[snip ‘fear’ lingo]
Speaker >> My view on this subject is very much centered around this scripture that I have used several times and I will use again:
John 17:15 (JESUS praying to The Father) "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou should keep them from evil."
"Simeon has related how God first [red section of diagram] concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people [body of Christ] for His name” . . . “After these things I will return [blue section = Day of the Lord], and I will rebuild the Tabernalce of David which has fallen, and I will rebuild its ruins, and will restore it [restore all things = Matt. 17:10-11, Acts 3:21-26], so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord [gospel of the kingdom = Matt. 24:14 near ‘end of the age’], and all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.” Acts 15:14-18.
Originally posted by yeahright
And here’s the question: If there is to be no Rapture but you believe there will, is that more or less damaging than believing there will be no Rapture but there really is? I mean, one side or the other is incorrect here, no?
We’ll either see the Second Coming in our lifetimes or we won’t. If we don’t, it doesn’t matter to us individually, does it? If we’re here for the Second Coming and expect a Rapture and it doesn’t come, wouldn’t that be worse than not expecting one but it happens anyway?
Valhall >> I think the main issue (other than the fact he has a good portion of the other half of this conversation on ignore) with Terral on this subject is that he has decided that Paul's words are superior to anything Christ says on the subject.
‘But He answered and said, "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24.
Valhall still thinking >> And he's admitted that in another thread. He states there are two gospels - Christ's and Paul's - and that Christ's doesn't apply to us, but Paul's does.
Valhall >> So basically Terral has admitted some type of worship of Paul's writings . . .
Valhall >> . . . and if that's his belief and he can twist one single statement by Paul to mean there will be a pre-tribulation rapture
Valhall >> (and to be quite honest I still can't tell if pre-trib is what Terral is pushing because he's so obtuse it's hard to get clear), then by golly that's what's gonna happen....at least on the planet he lives on.
Valhall >> See, what I'd just say.
Valhall >> Christ couldn't even prophecy about Paul's "mystery". It's all in the Paul, people.
“But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake." Acts 9:15+16.
Valhall >> And apparently, through the verbosity, I have found that Terral and I do agree on when the "rapture" will take place. I just adamantly disagree with how he's coming to that conclusion. Some people need to be involved in a "mystery" in order feel special.
Originally posted by Terral
What utter nonsense. For members to be forced to come out here and defend their ‘person’ against this trash talk is very unfortunate indeed in the presence of eleven Moderators giving their hearty approval. Shame, shame. How would they react if I quoted nothing from Byrd and set out to proclaim he is worshipping something other than our one God?
Sun Matrix >> I'm still waiting for you to put a name on this god you claim to serve. If you are such a scholar how come you have such a problem naming your god?
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I'm still waiting for you to put a name on this god you claim to serve.
Originally posted by Terral
Valhall: Are you debating with ‘people’ or with Terral?
Originally posted by Terral
Are you debating with ‘people’ or with Terral? Oh, this is yet another Grandstanding “I think” session from one of our resident ‘scholars’ who need not quote anybody or make a single argument for anything from Scripture. All he has to do is keep pumping out these three sentence “Dear Terral” trash posts. What does Scripture say about Christ and Paul’s conversion?
Valhall >> It's amazing that with you needing to refer to yourself in the multiple not a single one of you have the capability of reading. I have numerous posts on this thread that are on-topic.
Valhall >> I've made multiple posts about the error in your manipulation of the referenced scriptures, and you've not once responded to those posts.
Valhall >> You're the one running your character limit out and still not saying anything that makes sense, but instead using the majority of those characters to attack any one that doesn't agree with your silliness. I think you're the grandstander.
Valhall >> Now back on topic. Why don't you now respond to the multiple posts made by myself and others in response to your "interpretation".
Valhall >> Take it to another thread or I'll contact people who can help you.
Valhall >> Heh. Read LaHaye... that doctrine is all over his writings. He even wrote a book about it! www.armageddonbooks.com...
(no, I haven't read it. I don't care for LaHaye's writing style.)
Well, it's got to be some where other than the scriptures being quoted. Lol
Valhall >> Terral, Since you have me on ignore you won't possibly be able to be all too offended by the following statement:
"No pre-tribulation rapture" members are responding with the correct interpretation of those scriptures...but some kumquat has them on ignore, and/or refuses to read their posts in between his verbose, repetitive and obtuse self-indulgences.
Speaker >> Terral, with everything that you have said, you have yet to prove the thread's thesis incorrect. Show me indisputable proof that the "rapture" was conventionally believed in before 1830. Show me.
Speaker >. You keep arguing about whether or not the "rapture" will even occur, show me proof that people believed in it before 1830. You have derailed this thread long enough.
Speaker >> LaHaye's "Rapture" Ideology Was Not Even Considered Until 1830
“By the time Elizabeth I took the throne, the flaws of the Great Bible were apparent; those parts of it not translated by Tyndale were translated from the Latin Vulgate rather than the original languages. In 1568 the established church responded with the Bishops' Bible, but their version failed to displace the Geneva version as the most popular English version.”
“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.” Romans 1:8.