China's Lasers Versus America's Satellites

Originally posted by thelibra

You can easily blind a camera with lasers. However, I do not know if that is only in regards to visible-spectrum cameras or if it includes the entire electromagnetic wavelength range (such as radio, infrared, ultraviolet, t-rays, etc). I've never really even thought to check into it before. I also do not know if, because the satellite would normally be shielded against harsher sunlight and greater radioactive exposure, if the satellites wouldn't already be protected against this.

This is something I was thinking about. In theory, it should be possible to filter out laser light from an optical camera.

Of cource it would require re-fitting the satellite, which is neither cheap nor easy.
Even then, it may be possible to overcome those filters by changing the wavelenght of your laser.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
This is something I was thinking about. In theory, it should be possible to filter out laser light from an optical camera.

Yeah,I would think that our satellites had emergency filters on them in case of any such contingency.

[edit on 29-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Like I said, people give way too much credit to China. Someone now called them a superpower? Why because they have nukes? I guess Israel and Pakistan and India are superpowers now too.

China is not a superpower. It is a developing nation.

It has approximately 20-30 intercontinental nukes.

The US has approxinately 6,000.

To say that China would beat the US (as someone said), is ridiculous.

For the Chinese general to threaten the US with nuclear warfare if they go to war with China over Taiwan, he is an imbecile.

He also said that "China should be prepared for destruction of all cites west of xinahiu(sp*)" and the US should be prepared to lose hundreds of cities.

Puhleaz, what total bs.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Like I said, people give way too much credit to China. Someone now called them a superpower? Why because they have nukes? I guess Israel and Pakistan and India are superpowers now too.

I don't know about Pakistan but India and Israel are very much super powers.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Like I said, people give way too much credit to China. Someone now called them a superpower? Why because they have nukes? I guess Israel and Pakistan and India are superpowers now too.

china is NOT yet a superpower, but it's going to become a superpower

just look how well-deveped beijing and shanghai is, and other cities are developing too at a rapid speed to catch up.
Imagine most chinese cities are like this in the next 15 years or so, with its growing military and economic power.
beside it is also a big country in terms of size (similar to that of the US)
most ppl in the world predict that china is going to become a superpower sooner or later. it's just a matter of time.




The number of nukes is not the only thing that determines who is a superpower, it's the general influence/impact of a country on the rest of the world that determines.

[edit on 9/29/2006 by warset]

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Urg!

Again!

Please refer to my earlier posts explaining that the satellite would NOT be harmed by this system. Infact, a ground based laser is possibly the worst weapon you could employ if your goal was distruction. See thelibra's post on the previous page for a good breakdown of why this is true.

Calm down, I was just saying they had a right to destroy it if they wanted to do so. I read the whole topic and understood it correctly.

EDIT : I posted a rather extensive list of news clippings and technical/historic bits and pieces concerning laser and particle beam weapons here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by thelibra
I've got to agree with two points:

I am going to address this to you as i believe you might actually bother trying to defend what you think.

A war between the U.S. and China would be an End-Life-Event for the planet.

Nuclear winter was never a scientifically plausible notion and it was invalidated before the media took hold of it and ran with the stupid idea of 'end of all life'.

Both superpowers have easily enough weapons to wipe from the planet all life that isn't in a bomb shelter somewhere, and perhaps even that.

Neither country has anywhere near the nuclear weapons to actively destroy even each other's populations and if the USA were audacious enough to expend it's nuclear weapons on China it would have absolutely no credible deterrent power left to prevent Russian from doing whatever it wanted.

I believe, however that both powers recognize that and we will not see a "real" war between them in our lifetime. There may be conflicts, but no one wants nuclear escalation.

Actually many very famous people talk about reducing the world's population with 90% or so and i imagine they wont mind a nuclear war or two....

Stellar


[edit on 29-9-2006 by StellarX]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

k4rupt, you're talking out of your ass if you think in your head that the US cannot win against China, and even more so that Japan, South Korea, and Australia said that the US can't. I wouldn't be surprised if Japan could win against China. China is given wayyyyy to much credit on these boards.

[edit on 28-9-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]

First of all... Westpoitn and Retinoid... I never said the US cannot win a war against China, I said that certain U.S. Eastern allies made that statement.

Here is the source: www.insightmag.com...

The overwhelming assessment by Asian officials, diplomats and analysts is that the U.S. military simply cannot defeat China. It has been an assessment relayed to U.S. government officials over the past few months by countries such as Australia, Japan and South Korea. This comes as President Bush wraps up a visit to Asia, in which he sought to strengthen U.S. ties with key allies in the region.

So before you start TELLING me that I'm talking out of my ass, why don't you do some research before YOU start running your mouth.



Oh BTW... Warset, got any picks of Shenzhen? It's so beautiful there. The last time I went, I remembered the public streets being more decorated with gardens than Disneyland.



[edit on 29-9-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Like I said, people give way too much credit to China. Someone now called them a superpower? Why because they have nukes? I guess Israel and Pakistan and India are superpowers now too.

Well i wont say that their super powers but the ICBM club is still pretty exclusive...

China is not a superpower. It is a developing nation.

A developing nation with the fastest growing economy on Earth last i checked. Within a decade they will probably have the largest middle class ( if not already) on Earth as well. I guess we can discuss just how one defines a 'developing' nation but i think things are generally getting better in China while living standards are going down in the USA.

It has approximately 20-30 intercontinental nukes.

The US has approxinately 6,000.

Actually no one knows how many either country truly has but China has declared a couple dozen ICBM's with MIRVs giving them the capacity to destroy anywhere from a dozen to a few hundred American cities had that been their aim. As for America it's nuclear arsenal is already inferior to that of Russia and the expenditure of any amount of warheads ( assuming neither side is hiding massive stockpiles or deploy more destructive secret weapons) might very well destroy China as a society and economic power but will also rob America of a credible deterrent to prevent Russian from doing whatever it wanted in the ensuing chaos that will result from the deaths of a few tens of millions of Americans.

To say that China would beat the US (as someone said), is ridiculous.

If the Chinese leadership is willing to sacrifice a few hundred million Chinese lives to draw American down to their level of warfare they can surely 'win if that is their aim. Winning has absolutely nothing to do with body counts or the level of destruction and everything to do with what one finds acceptable in the effort to reach one's strategic objectives.

For the Chinese general to threaten the US with nuclear warfare if they go to war with China over Taiwan, he is an imbecile.

Well maybe it's best to consider what he might know that we do not and even thought i do not think there will be a war over Taiwan ( the US wont intervene either way) they might very well be serious....

He also said that "China should be prepared for destruction of all cites west of xinahiu(sp*)" and the US should be prepared to lose hundreds of cities.

Puhleaz, what total bs.

When you become better informed maybe you get to have a opinion i will respect but until then you should probably consider what is possible with Chinese secrecy and the corrupt American government that allowed the USSR to gain the apparent massive strategic advantage that it still holds.

Stellar

Originally posted by k4rupt
Oh BTW... Warset, got any picks of Shenzhen? It's so beautiful there. The last time I went, I remembered the public streets being more decorated with gardens than Disneyland.
[edit on 29-9-2006 by k4rupt]

here is a pic of Shenzhen, another chinese city that is currently under development




[edit on 9/29/2006 by warset]

A developing nation with the fastest growing economy on Eart

When your economy is developing, it will of course grow faster than developed countries. America is like the 40 year old man, and China is the pubescent boy. Of course China is going to grow much faster than America.

I guess we can discuss just how one defines a 'developing' nation but i think things are generally getting better in China while living standards are going down in the USA.

Is that after considering the 700 million impoverished people in the country?

When you become better informed maybe you get to have a opinion i will respect but until then you should probably consider what is possible with Chinese secrecy and the corrupt American government that allowed the USSR to gain the apparent massive strategic advantage that it still holds.

Stellar

Actually the "USSR" (which can now safely be called Russia), does not have a "massive strategic advantage". In fact the USA has a massive strategic advantage against both Russia and China.


www.foreignaffairs.org...

First of all... Westpoitn and Retinoid... I never said the US cannot win a war against China, I said that certain U.S. Eastern allies made that statement.

Here is the source: www.insightmag.com...

Your source isn't working.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Is that after considering the 700 million impoverished people in the country?

well, yes, because this number will get smaller and smaller as the country continues to develop. now it's 50%, ten years from now it might be 30% or less...

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

First of all... Westpoitn and Retinoid... I never said the US cannot win a war against China, I said that certain U.S. Eastern allies made that statement.

Here is the source: www.insightmag.com...

Your source isn't working.

www.insightmag.com...

Here it is... Like I said - The U.S.'s EASTERN allies including Japan, S. Korea, and Australia HAVE stated (both publicly and privately) that the U.S. SIMPLY CANNOT win a war against China.

Instead of telling me that I'm "talking out of my ass" next time, would you re-read what I wrote or maybe ask for a source? I NEVER stated that "China beating the U.S." was MY personal opinion... if you read closely, I stated it was the U.S.' eastern Allies who have this feeling.

BTW, I'm not here to start a US vs China debate... I'm just telling you what the U.S.'s allies are thinking right now. Guess, unlike you and many others here, not everyone thinks the U.S. is invincible huh?


[edit on 29-9-2006 by k4rupt]

K4rupt, to say any country is invincible would be a lie. But to say China can win a war against the US is also a lie. Maybe when they are the ones who stop reverse engineering Russian and US technology, then I may start to believe you.

Now if someone said, Russia and the US, I would not say the US would definitely win. But China...sorry they are way too overestimated at the moment. Someone on here actually called them a superpower, I know crazy

And I read your source. Their whole basis for saying that the US would not be able to win is because of Afghanistan and Iraq (which are different types of battle).

And the only one who was worth quoting was a governor of Tokyo.

Oh well believe what you must.

Originally posted by Flyer

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Urg!

Again!

Please refer to my earlier posts explaining that the satellite would NOT be harmed by this system. Infact, a ground based laser is possibly the worst weapon you could employ if your goal was distruction. See thelibra's post on the previous page for a good breakdown of why this is true.

Calm down, I was just saying they had a right to destroy it if they wanted to do so. I read the whole topic and understood it correctly.

Cool, cool.
I see your point.

It's mearly that sometimes relate information on the internet is like opening coconuts with a nerf bat.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
K4rupt, to say any country is invincible would be a lie. But to say China can win a war against the US is also a lie. Maybe when they are the ones who stop reverse engineering Russian and US technology, then I may start to believe you.

Now if someone said, Russia and the US, I would not say the US would definitely win. But China...sorry they are way too overestimated at the moment. Someone on here actually called them a superpower, I know crazy

And I read your source. Their whole basis for saying that the US would not be able to win is because of Afghanistan and Iraq (which are different types of battle).

And the only one who was worth quoting was a governor of Tokyo.

Oh well believe what you must.

How come the UN didn't defeat the Chinese during the Korean war? I suppose the gap of military euquipments between the two side was even bigger back then than it is now.
War is not all about equipment (although equipments are extremely important; we are talking about conventional wars), and beside, PLA has excellent equipments for regional warfares. where did you get this "their crappy weapons are solely the product of their reverse engineer" idea from? none sense, only a few concepts are borrowed.

PS. let not turn this into another US vs China thread, there has been enough arguments on this topic already, and no one can really prove anything. so let just put it this way: supposedly there will never be a war between china and US, and if there will be one, it wouldn't be pretty, and ppl do not want to see it happen.

[edit on 9/30/2006 by warset]

Getting BACK on topic:

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by BitRaiser
This is something I was thinking about. In theory, it should be possible to filter out laser light from an optical camera.

Yeah,I would think that our satellites had emergency filters on them in case of any such contingency.

I doubt any current generation satellite carries any sort of "emergency filter" beyond, possibly, a physical protective system (ie; a lens cap). There would be no reason for it. The idea of using a laser to blind a satellite wasn't on anyone's mind. The chances of accedently viewing a very bright light source (like the sun) is minimal since these satellites only look down, therefore they can't look into the sun. Even if something drastic happened, they would just turn the camera off to protect it.

So no, I don't think the current generation of optical spy satellites have any means to deal with this laser blinding system.

I strongly suspect we will see some hightened, non-publisized NASA activity as and when US spy satellite research finds ways of doing with laser blinders.

Originally posted by Flyer
as the satellite goes, they have every right to fire the laser, I think they have every right to destroy it just as they would if it were a spy plane.

If the US doesn't want it destroyed, it shouldn't fly over China.

Huh? Can you explain to me this logic, since when does China "own" and have exclusive right to the low earth orbit and exo atmospheric space over its land? By that token any nation has a right to destroy any satellite or object that flies over their land in space, even if it's the shuttle or international space station!
Over flights by conventional planes is another matter altogether, however that's not what's being discussed here.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Huh? Can you explain to me this logic, since when does China "own" and have exclusive right to the low earth orbit and exo atmospheric space over its land? By that token any nation has a right to destroy any satellite or object that flies over their land in space, even if it's the shuttle or international space station!
Over flights by conventional planes is another matter altogether, however that's not what's being discussed here.

AFAIK it's generally accepted that country's airspace extends to as high as country's air defences can have effect on..
So if China has laser that can shoot down satellites it has right to shoot those satellites down, especially if those are military satellites.