China's Lasers Versus America's Satellites

Let's NOT buy into the ignorance of hype here and look at this issue for what it is.

Is that statement really needed, all we are doubting is the fact that china can hit a none radio wave reflecting, none radio wave transmitting, optic lense the size of a toaster moving with 2000 kilometres per hour 40000 kilometres away, and a 2-4 feet error margin because of the distortion that particles create when firing a laser through our air and atmosphere hence creating the dancing that thelibra talked about.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
This is what makes it effective despite the fact that thelibra pointed out. Scatter doesn't matter nearly as much because it's not the heat energy that is important... simply the light energy. Infact, the scattering of the laser while it passes through the atmosphear makes tracking the satellite easier since you are firing a cone instead of a beam (meaning you have a larger field of effect at target altitudes).

You do have a good point here though! (marked with bold)

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton

Let's NOT buy into the ignorance of hype here and look at this issue for what it is.

Is that statement really needed, all we are doubting is the fact that china can hit a none radio wave reflecting, none radio wave transmitting, optic lense the size of a toaster moving with 2000 kilometres per hour 40000 kilometres away, and a 2-4 feet error margin because of the distortion that particles create when firing a laser through our air and atmosphere hence creating the dancing that thelibra talked about.

Yes, the comment is needed.

My point is that the dancing particals (the element required to apply heat and thus damage) is NOT REQUIRED (or even desired) by this system.

It's just light. It's a bright enough light source to blind a camera looking in it's direction.

Infact, because you only need to spam the satellite with enough light to block out naturally refected light, the system my not even require knowing where the satellite is OR the abillity to track it. If your laser is powerful enough, you could difuse it at it's source to create a large cone that would act like an umbrella. This would blind any camera pointing in the general direction of the laser's source. That would be in-efficent, but doable.

Personally, if I were to implement a system like this, I would create a hybrid between tracking and spamming to maximize efficency. A broad cone that fires into the trejectory of the satellite and uses some very basic math to predict it's path. Hell, I've writen more complex code for computer games!

The only really hard bit is seeing the satellite in the first place. Those things are small and fast moving, so detection is difficult. That said, China has it's own satellites and it's no great leap to assume that some of them are likely equiped to look for other satellites.

Reguardless, the important thing I'm trying to get across is that this system doesn't have to damage anything in order to work. This is no more an "attack" than a security guard shining a flashlight into your face when he catches you trying to sneak into someplace you shouldn't be.

Good points there i think you might be right, they do not need the accuracy i first estimated.

Well, I mean if the laser just "blinds" the satellite,it doesn't seem to me that the laser would have to get close at all.

Originally posted by BitRaiser

Originally posted by Shamanator
We should just tell them outright shining a laser at anything American is an act of war if they persist in it just blow up the fancy dam they just made to make a point. I'm sure they will take the hint and back down peacefully rather than face the might of America and lose embarassingly.

You really have no idea do you?

China isn't just another little tin-pot dictatorship that can be pushed over with a couple of well placed 100 million dollar bombs.

The Chinese millitary is well trained, well equiped, and massive.
They are a NUCLEAR POWER and fully able to launch against the US.

"Just blow up their fancy damn"?
What a truely remarkable display of arogance and ignorance.

Welcome to the club Bitraiser... I've been fighting off these comments for ages here... This type of arrogant and ignorant thinking is just SO rampant in the Western world that I've lost all hope and have nearly given up. Even HERE, at ATS where we are supposedly the more enlightened than the general public, I've heard people saying things like "The Chinese army are just peasants with aks and their sole strategy is to suicide millions of them" or "There are billions of Chinese starving."

My God... how have we come to this? Props to you Bitraiser but don't get too caught up in defeating this type of ignorance... its just TOO RAMPANT.


Oh, and Shamantar, the Chinese have EVERY RIGHT to disable an American spy satellite spying over its territory... and another thing - in the current situation that the United States is in, her Eastern allies (including Japan, S. Korea, and Australia) have repeatedly stated that the United States WILL NOT and CANNOT win a war against the People's Republic of China.




[edit on 28-9-2006 by k4rupt]

Oh, and Shamantar, the Chinese have EVERY RIGHT to disable an American spy satellite spying over its territory... and another thing - in the current situation that the United States is in, her Eastern allies (including Japan, S. Korea, and Australia) have repeatedly stated that the United States WILL NOT and CANNOT win a war against the People's Republic of China.

I wasn't going to get involved in this but this last paragraph compelled me. I agree that it is a game of tic for tac, and defensive measures are legitimate, no matter how much they may piss you off. However there is fine line between defensive measures and an offensive attack (ie. destroying a satellite), so the Chinese need to tread carefully because they don't want to take it that far.

But it was your second point that I take particular issue with, when has Japan, SK, and Australia "repeatedly" said that the US "WILL NOT and CANNOT" "win" a war against China? I don't want to get into another predictable US Vs. China thread (I've seen my fair share of them over the years and I have no desire for more) but think your statement through and you'll realize that it is DOES NOT represent the reality of the situation.

Oh, and Shamantar, the Chinese have EVERY RIGHT to disable an American spy satellite spying over its territory... and another thing - in the current situation that the United States is in, her Eastern allies (including Japan, S. Korea, and Australia) have repeatedly stated that the United States WILL NOT and CANNOT win a war against the People's Republic of China.




[edit on 28-9-2006 by k4rupt]

k4rupt, you're talking out of your ass if you think in your head that the US cannot win against China, and even more so that Japan, South Korea, and Australia said that the US can't. I wouldn't be surprised if Japan could win against China. China is given wayyyyy to much credit on these boards.

[edit on 28-9-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]

Do you have any proof to support that claim, or are you just blowing smoke?

I suggest you bone up on your knowlage of the Chinese military.

Here's some links to get you started:
A good overview
Info on Their forthcoming Aircraftcarrier
Info on the World's Largest Standing Army (the PLA)
China's Nuclear Capability

The truth is that if it came to open conflict between China and the US, neither side would "win". Millions, possibly billions, of people would die. The world would be trashed. No one would escape unscathed. The world's ecconemy would cease to exist.

Now, how's about you get over your national ego and start understanding that WAR SUCKS!

Absolute nonsense the chinese wouldnt last more than a few weeks at best if they even dared go nuclear they wouldnt last 30 minutes and we would make a good example of them so no one else would ever oppose us again. Everyone knows all Chinese equipment are just cheap knockoffs they may look the part but they are practicly useless. China can't even invade Tawain hardly a threat to America.

Theres nothing impressive about China but staying on topic America has a right to defend its equipment this act by China is nothing short of Piracy.

I bet China wouldnt like it if we started to knock any sattelites they had (if they even have any that arent broke and falling apart already) out of orbit.

What a wonderful example of the kind of attitude the entire world would be much better without.

Chummer, the idea here is to Deny ignorance, not Display ignorance.

I cannot believe the ignorance in this thread, it is sad that people, as that exists.

If we went to war with China there would be no winners, but I am almost certain that Chinas survivability far precedes 30 days of conflict.

In a nuclear war there can be no winners, we fire they fire, nuclear winter. If that happens you can consider me an enemy of all nations who have nuclear weapons, Chinese French, English or American would be legitimate targets to me, as well as civilians from their countries.

we didn’t make an alliance with your nuclear arsenal we made it with the citizens and governments, raping the world with bombs is a treaty violation and thus would make us enemies, not that it matter in the long run.

I've got to agree with two points:

A war between the U.S. and China would be an End-Life-Event for the planet. Both superpowers have easily enough weapons to wipe from the planet all life that isn't in a bomb shelter somewhere, and perhaps even that. I believe, however that both powers recognize that and we will not see a "real" war between them in our lifetime. There may be conflicts, but no one wants nuclear escalation.

You can easily blind a camera with lasers. However, I do not know if that is only in regards to visible-spectrum cameras or if it includes the entire electromagnetic wavelength range (such as radio, infrared, ultraviolet, t-rays, etc). I've never really even thought to check into it before. I also do not know if, because the satellite would normally be shielded against harsher sunlight and greater radioactive exposure, if the satellites wouldn't already be protected against this.

The problem is not as much the initial death count from atomic impacts. It is the nuclear winter that follows in its wake, it would completely block out all sun light and thus making almost all life based on photosynthesis die. Hence the oxygen level in our atmosphere would drop, that would kill the survivors, unless we where deep down in a shelter with some thought of closed air recycling system and a huge supply of food. Then we would have to wait down in that shelter I would say around 200-10000 years depending on how the earth decide to deal with this catastrophe.

I'm glad to see there are some normal thinking people standing up to the chest thumping robo patriots. The ignorance is truly astounding and sadly all too common.

As they've said, if the US and China go to war, neither can win and they both lose. Hell we all lose.

As far as the satellite goes, they have every right to fire the laser, I think they have every right to destroy it just as they would if it were a spy plane.

If the US doesn't want it destroyed, it shouldn't fly over China.

Originally posted by Flyer
I'm glad to see there are some normal thinking people standing up to the chest thumping robo patriots. The ignorance is truly astounding and sadly all too common.

As they've said, if the US and China go to war, neither can win and they both lose. Hell we all lose.

I think that is probably the biggest block to there ever being an outright war between America and China. Much like the "Cold War," neither side really relishes the idea of an "atomic winter" type of scenario. However, I think that if a nation like Iran developed nuclear power, we may have much more to worry about. Look, when discussing a fanatical regime,as that which exists in Iran, it needs to be understood that they don't even care about their own life, they certainly do not care about mine or yours.

Originally posted by Shamanator
Absolute nonsense the chinese wouldnt last more than a few weeks at best if they even dared go nuclear they wouldnt last 30 minutes and we would make a good example of them so no one else would ever oppose us again. Everyone knows all Chinese equipment are just cheap knockoffs they may look the part but they are practicly useless. China can't even invade Tawain hardly a threat to America.

let's do some readings before we post.....

"We Chinese will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds ... of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese," he added.

www.cnn.com...

This is a typical MAD scenario, pictured by one of the PLA generals.

[edit on 9/29/2006 by warset]

Originally posted by Shamanator
America has a right to defend its equipment

That is the one thing you said correctly in your post.

[edit on 29-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Shamanator
America has a right to defend its equipment

That is the one thing you said correctly in your post.

[edit on 29-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

then I'd say that china has the right to defend its own privacy

Originally posted by Flyer
As far as the satellite goes, they have every right to fire the laser, I think they have every right to destroy it just as they would if it were a spy plane.

If the US doesn't want it destroyed, it shouldn't fly over China.

Urg!

Again!

Please refer to my earlier posts explaining that the satellite would NOT be harmed by this system. Infact, a ground based laser is possibly the worst weapon you could employ if your goal was distruction. See thelibra's post on the previous page for a good breakdown of why this is true.