Bush admits there were explosives in WTC!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Val is right on this one Leftbehind. KSM WAS the one that planned 9/11. He helped plan the 93 bombing IIRC, and he planned 9/11 as well. He was in love with the idea of crashing planes and blowing them up, but this was his only SUCCESSFUL operation.

NO, he didn't help plan the 93 bombing. And that point is VERY important. The ONLY plan that KSM was involved in concerning WTC, OR concerning flying planes into buildings was 9/11.

He gave $600 to Youssef toward the efforts to bomb the WTC in 1993. But the commission report EXPLICITLY states he was not involved in the planning of that attack, the small donation was the only role he played, and that the plan to fly planes into buildings was his first operational and planning role he had ever had. His original plan was much more grandiose, including up to 12 planes taking off from the U.S. and abroad and hitting U.S. interests both in the U.S. and in international locations, and was to wind up with him landing the last plane on a U.S. airstrip, killing all the men on board, and giving a denegrating speech about how the U.S. sucks. bin Laden told him to trim it down a bit, and voila, we got 4 planes instead of 12.

I'll be a son of a ......

I guess people were right, and even if it wasnt controlled demolitions the fact remains the bush administration has omitted a critical fact of what happened that day. :shk:

I apologise to anyone I ever called "insane" or " on the fringe" for proposing this theory before hand.

Apparently you were doing a good job.....

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Val is right on this one Leftbehind. KSM WAS the one that planned 9/11. He helped plan the 93 bombing IIRC, and he planned 9/11 as well. He was in love with the idea of crashing planes and blowing them up, but this was his only SUCCESSFUL operation.

Well, too bad that's not what he's talking about in his speach.

He is clearly talking about disrupted plots, as in not 9-11.

Originally posted by Valhall

NO, he didn't help plan the 93 bombing. And that point is VERY important. The ONLY plan that KSM was involved in concerning WTC, OR concerning flying planes into buildings was 9/11.

He gave $600 to Youssef toward the efforts to bomb the WTC in 1993. But the commission report EXPLICITLY states he was not involved in the planning of that attack, the small donation was the only role he played, and that the plan to fly planes into buildings was his first operational and planning role he had ever had. His original plan was much more grandiose, including up to 12 planes taking off from the U.S. and abroad and hitting U.S. interests both in the U.S. and in international locations, and was to wind up with him landing the last plane on a U.S. airstrip, killing all the men on board, and giving a denegrating speech about how the U.S. sucks. bin Laden told him to trim it down a bit, and voila, we got 4 planes instead of 12.

Ok, I had been part of a briefing a few years ago about him, but I couldn't remember if he had planned that one too. I knew he was involved, but couldn't remember to what level. He had been involved in Operation Bojinka, but I couldn't remember about 93.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I'll be a son of a ......

I guess people were right, and even if it wasnt controlled demolitions the fact remains the bush administration has omitted a critical fact of what happened that day. :shk:

I apologise to anyone I ever called "insane" or " on the fringe" for proposing this theory before hand.

Apparently you were doing a good job.....

are you being serious or sarcastic?

Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
Oh please Zaphod, you could have this same kind of praise if you could just present a few consistant points, points that can stand up to scrutiny. I'm just a fan on the sidelines for this one. A true debate athelete ignores the heckling or at least sinks the freethrow to silence the critics. Only the ones filled with self doubt will respond. But hey if you want to take your ball and go home thats your call. You would be missed I'm sure.

Actually, his points seem to have stood up to the scrutiny of the many hundreds of people that have all agreed on why the towers fell. The only problem is, CTers dismiss them all.

A true debate athlete finds a reliable source of information and uses it to back statements, and the opponent (if also a true debate athlete) does the same, minus heckling, and minus dismissing otherwise reliable sources because they are "in on it".

Bush does not admit "we put bombs in the buildings". We all know this. It would be easier if he did, I'd like a bit of forward motion on this issue and it would definately kill a lot of the infighting here.

But that's not what happened. The OP, and the others who see this as "admitting to preplanted explosives", are making more of it than what is.

Originally posted by Valhall


NO, he didn't help plan the 93 bombing. And that point is VERY important. The ONLY plan that KSM was involved in concerning WTC, OR concerning flying planes into buildings was 9/11.

As far as we know.

I suppose you've interviewed him, or maybe your pen pals, is that what makes you the end-all, be-all authority on this?

Look, like I said, I have no idea if Bush is telling the truth. But he is talking about disrupted plots, in a speach defending the CIAs intelligence gathering and the domestic wiretapping programs.

He talks about KSM giving them info to disrupt plots, then he gives examples. I'm sorry that many of you see 9-11 links everywhere, but it is not here.


I guess you count Bojinka as the same plan as 9-11 then?

You know, the failed one, involving planes planned by KSM.

As in 9-11 was not the "ONLY plan that KSM was involved in."

en.wikipedia.org...




[edit on 16-9-2006 by LeftBehind]

weve been doing a lot of talking in other threads about 9-11 being used to split the country along political lines. is it possible that these statements were released to further fuel the divide of of the population?

For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of plane attacks on building inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out. That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people.

He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.

Lets look at the words carefully.

"how the operatives were directed to carry them out"-That must mean where to fly the planes into the building.

"He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping"- Now this is the tricky part where people are discussing about. Does the explosives mean explosives in the planes? Or the planes' explosiveness? After all why does the President say that Sheik Mohammed told operatives that the explosives must be high enough to prevent people trapped from above from escaping? Did the terrorists jumped out the planes just before it crashed and climbed the walls and plant explosives high enough so people can't escape? I have known that the President talks funny and has misused words before. But I know that the President was describing Mohammed's plan where the planes explosiveness when on impact would trap the people above the impact and cannot escape beyond.

No, what she SAID leftbehind was that it was the only plan he was involved in that involved either the WTC OR crashing planes into buildings. Bojinka was to blow them up in flight over the Pacific as they were coming to the US.

Good point Deltaboy.

Another thing.

Why would he use such vague language if he was describing the 9-11 attacks, when he seems to love bringing them up.

For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of plane attacks on building inside the U.S.

Why would he say "buildings inside the U.S." if he meant the WTC?

Could it be that he is talking about disrupted plans, you know, the whole premise of that part of the speach?

If he meant 9-11 why didnt he say "For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of the attacks on Semptember 11th."?

edit: Ok my mistake Zaphod, however please show me where Bush mentions the WTC in this part of the speech, and how that has any relevance to this discussion.

He is clearly taling about disrupted plots, not 9-11.



[edit on 16-9-2006 by LeftBehind]

I've lost count of how many times I've used this eyewitness report of explosions in WTC2 but here it is again.

Eric Levine

'The building began to sink'

We had reached either the 51st or the 50th floor when we heard a huge explosion, which shook the building like crazy! I grabbed hold of the stairwell to steady myself when a women who had fallen from a flight up hit me in the back and sent me down a flight of stairs with her on my back.

I then tried to stand up but the building was still shaking and the lights were flickering on and off. It was terrifying! Then the building began to sink. That’s the only way I can describe it. The floor began to lower under my feet and all I could think about was that it would crack open and I would fall hundreds of feet to my death!

He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.

I suppose the intereptation of this statement, and whether it regards the previous statement or not lies in the fourth word 'the'.

It could be a mistake in the transcription. Bush's word could have been 'how', implying the statement was covering other attacks on buildings that may not have included planes.

Bush regularly gets a little out a whack when speaking, so it doesn't surprise me if these two sentences are different thoughts, but appear to be connected.

Sounds to me like Bush is attempting to imply that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's plans included using explosives in case the conspiracy theories get too big, but didn't directly mention 9/11 to cover his tracks.

"As soon as Congress acts on this bill, the men our intelligence believed helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks can face justice.

The bill would also provide clear rules for our personnel involved in detaining and questioning captured terrorists.

The information that the Central Intelligence Agency has obtained by questioning men like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has provided valuable information and has helped disrupt terrorist plots, including strikes within the United States.

For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of plane attacks on building inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out. That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people.

He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping. "

9/11 Commission Report alleges KSM was the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks.
Bush is talking about the WTC buildings. Bush is given a written speech, but in every speech you can clearly see Bush adds his own words to the speech where he had gotten lost.


[edit on 16-9-2006 by tazadar]

Originally posted by uknumpty

'The building began to sink'
[...]
Then the building began to sink. That’s the only way I can describe it. The floor began to lower under my feet and all I could think about was that it would crack open and I would fall hundreds of feet to my death!

This guy must have been standing within the core structure. We've seen video of the WTC1 "spire" lowering straight down upon itself, rather than exploding, as the trusses/perimeters did, being ejected hundreds of feet in some cases. Suggests to me that cutter charges were seldom used within the core, and that the core was brought down in a more conventional fashion, at least wherever this person was located.

He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.

So you mean it could have been like:

He told us how operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.

??

I don't see how changing "the" into "how" changes it but? (Im not English so i maybe
that's why it's not clear for me)
He would still be talking about "the operatives" that were participating even if you
change it into "how".

Dear oh dear.

First these terrorists are expert jet pilots and then expert in demolitions.

Did they received a degree from Marvel Super-Villains University?

zren.

The use of the word 'the' implies that the following 'operatives' had mention previously.

The use of the word 'how' would keep the statement in line with the premise of the article; the premise being information on possibly planned and or executed terror plots.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I'll be a son of a ......

I guess people were right, and even if it wasnt controlled demolitions the fact remains the bush administration has omitted a critical fact of what happened that day. :shk:

I apologise to anyone I ever called "insane" or " on the fringe" for proposing this theory before hand.

Apparently you were doing a good job.....

if your not being sarcastic, my heart just skipped a beat. To see that being said by you...man I dont even know what to say. I was going to give my input on the subject, but Im a bit dumbfound now.