Drug Testing In High Schools... What Do You Think?

Well, the steroids drug testing I heard about was in New Jersey, I heard about it on ESPN radio.

Your article does say though, from your own quote, that the testing will only involve those students with extra-curricular activities. so, again, it is not the entire school.

chances are, whatever extra-curricular activity wants the testing will require an agreement where the kid might be subjected to random testing.



However, I still fail to see the problem with all of this. As long as the kiddies stay clean, there is not an issue. You cry out that the government is clenching its fists, yet in reality they are only trying to do their best in the fight against drugs.

Originally posted by Mouth
Your article does say though, from your own quote, that the testing will only involve those students with extra-curricular activities. so, again, it is not the entire school.

actually, not just participating in, but also those who attend the E.C.A's.

So in my mind that could just about be the entire school... but that's neither here nor there...


I do agree with you, that its for the best interest of the children....

If it's randomly testing all the kids attending these events, then I disgree that it's helping the kids. Unless one considers preparing them for a life of servility and blind opbedience to an intrusive, invasive government "helping them"....

Again, those who trade liberty for the illusion of security deserve neither.

Originally posted by Nygdan
But they're not. Its got to be done, so its going ot be either the parents, or the schools, since the parents aren't doing it, its up to the schools.

Who says that parents are performing inadequately, the US department of education? I keep hearing this anti-parent rhetoric, but it all comes from educators that want to suck more money out of tax payers pocket. It seems to me that we need a means whereby parents can evaluate the performance of school systems, rather than having school systems evaluating the quality of parenting.

US school sysems are not getting kids educated because they are spending the money for purposes other than education, such as drug testing kids. Fix the schools, parents on the whole are doing just fine.
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Originally posted by xmotex
If it's randomly testing all the kids attending these events, then I disgree that it's helping the kids. Unless one considers preparing them for a life of servility and blind opbedience to an intrusive, invasive government "helping them"....

Again, those who trade liberty for the illusion of security deserve neither.

I still fail to see where testing for illegal drugs is an infringement on rights and liberties. If you are so against these kind of laws, do you therefore support minors drinking? How about a 10-year-old buying cigarettes? Why does the government have the decisions on those laws?

Again, all the kids have to do is stay away from those illegal drugs, which get them in trouble in the first place.

Originally posted by df1
Who says that parents are performing inadequately, the US department of education? I keep hearing this anti-parent rhetoric, but it all comes from educators that want to suck more money out of tax payers pocket. It seems to me that we need a means whereby parents can evaluate the performance of school systems, rather than having school systems evaluating the quality of parenting.

US school sysems are not getting kids educated because they are spending the money for purposes other than education, such as drug testing kids. Fix the schools, parents on the whole are doing just fine.
.

Lets have an example of bad parents

Bad parents

I still fail to see where testing for illegal drugs is an infringement on rights and liberties.

Then there is not much point in talkng to you, frankly.

I fail to see why installing a government monitored camera in your bedrom is an infringement on rights and liberties. After all, if you're not committing any illegal sex acts, what do you have to worry about?

If you're against goverment cameras in bedrooms, it must mean you support rape, child molestation, beastiality (well maybe that would be cameras in barns), etc...

Originally posted by Mouth
I still fail to see where testing for illegal drugs is an infringement on rights and liberties. If you are so against these kind of laws, do you therefore support minors drinking? How about a 10-year-old buying cigarettes?

The government has already made the laws about drug, cigarette and alcohol use by minors. But they don't randomly stop kids and search for cigarettes or alcohol. Just because they have kids captive in a controlled environment (school) does not give them the right to randomly inspect them to make SURE they are obeying the law.

By your logic, if it's ok that schools perform random drug testing, it must be ok if the cops randomly enter your house and do a search just to make sure you're following all laws... right?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


The government has already made the laws about drug, cigarette and alcohol use by minors. But they don't randomly stop kids and search for cigarettes or alcohol. Just because they have kids captive in a controlled environment (school) does not give them the right to randomly inspect them to make SURE they are obeying the law.

actually, I have been a victim of being pulled over while walking, and searched for alcohol. It sucked, I got an underage drinking violation while walking to 7-11. Also, possession of cigarettes is not illegal for minors, just purchasing is.

Anyway, education is one of the main keys for success. If you don't play by the rules of the schools, why should you not succum to the consequences? Correct me of I am wrong, but aren't public schools free to local residents? Wouldn't the government therefore have the right decide upon the drug policies? If you are so bent out of shape over this, then send your kids to a private school.

By your logic, if it's ok that schools perform random drug testing, it must be ok if the cops randomly enter your house and do a search just to make sure you're following all laws... right?

If I got nothing to hide, sure. I personally have no problem with the government keeping an eye on me, since I don't break the law. I still have my rights as a US citizen. As long as I obey the law, what do I have to worry about?

Originally posted by xmotex


Then there is not much point in talkng to you, frankly.

alright...

I fail to see why installing a government monitored camera in your bedrom is an infringement on rights and liberties. After all, if you're not committing any illegal sex acts, what do you have to worry about?

If you're against goverment cameras in bedrooms, it must mean you support rape, child molestation, beastiality (well maybe that would be cameras in barns), etc...

I mean, talk about going a bit extreme... I thought we were having a normal debate.

Look, we all know the government is losing the war against drugs. As I said before, I volunteer for a safe home, where there are plenty of ex-drug addicts. Do you have any idea how mentally messed up they are? The long-term effects of some drugs are terrible, and the government wants to do its best to save a few lives. Drug testing in schools might actually save one kid's life in the long run. Are you really so against that?

And we could probably stop some kids from being molested with the bedroom cameras too... better yet, if we had a personal cop following each citizen all day every day, we could no doubt prevent a lot of bad things... but what price are you willing to pay for safety?

Good work on volunteering at a treatment program, unlike the .gov and it's failing drug war", you're doing something useful to fight drug addiction. And yes, I do know all to well how an addiction can destroy people's lives - unfortunately it is something people very close to me are dealing with right now.

On the other hand I've known plenty of people who have used drugs regularly for years without it becoming a destructive issue in their lives at all.

As for myself, my only drug problem has been a serious addiction to nicotene, a deadlier and more addictive drug than heroin or coc aine, and one that's 100% legal and can be obtained at any corner store.

Originally posted by Koori
Not all parents are bad parents. It seems that posters here are putting parents in the same box.

When my child is old enough I will be talking to him about drugs etc.

The schools over here need parents permission to talk to kids about drugs, sex etc and I will be giving them my permission to do this because they may tell him something that I forgot or he may feel more comfortable asking them questions rather then his parents.

As for random drug testing if they bring that in over here I will not have a problem with that because it just might save a kids life. Most work places do this including the defence forces so it's becoming a normal way of life and what better way of kids getting used to it. Most of your schools in America have metal detectors but I don't see parents yelling and screaming about that....so what's the difference???

I'm against random testing because it is just that, random. The article was not talking about simply for school athletes ... it covered field trips, dances and almost any activity that would involve most of the student population.

Yes, many jobs require drug testing and require you to agree to random drug testing. I submitted to a psych test, drug test and background for my job ... but it was my choice to apply for the job. If I thought this was an invasion of my privacy I could've turned down the offer.

While I had/have no problem submitting to tests related to my employment I would be mortified if I was expected to submit to a "random" test as I drove around town or sat at a public park. Randoming meaning just that, with no probable cause, just a test to "make sure" I'm following all the laws. That is simply not the type of nation we live in. What happened to "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" as protected by the constitution.

My child (who is nowhere near the high school age) should not be required to take any drug test without probable cause. They should be subjected to the same constitutional protections on the school grounds as they have off. If there are indicators of him being under the influence then they have the option of calling the police and having them determining if there is proper probable cause for blood draw.

I realize some of the school rules are being placed with good intentions, due to lack of parenting issues. However, the schools need to recognize their place as an educational institution. The only person who can test my child without any probable cause and on a whim is ME!

Originally posted by Mouth
I still fail to see where testing for illegal drugs is an infringement on rights and liberties. If you are so against these kind of laws, do you therefore support minors drinking? How about a 10-year-old buying cigarettes? Why does the government have the decisions on those laws?

Again, all the kids have to do is stay away from those illegal drugs, which get them in trouble in the first place.

A simple question may clear this up. Would you be willing to be randomly tested as you walked around conducting your daily business? Do you feel it would be acceptable for your goverment to compel you to submit to a completely random test as you sat at the park?

If not, why do you extend yourself more Constitutional protection that the teenagers attending this high school? I personally expect my child to be treated fairly ... meaning the same protections they have at the mall or the public library they should have at their school.

All I'm trying to say is if random drug testing in schools is going to save our childrens lives then I don't have a problem with it, but it seems that I'm NOT entitled to this opinion.

Maybe we should just let our kids take drugs in the schools and get more kids addicted, would that make you happy????

No man, I'm in enough trouble as it it I don't need this.

Ok now to be real, I don't agree you know. This just makes things more difficult, trust me. More lives ruined, more families torn apart, more trouble, and more Court cases! Its unneccesary, let them test athletes, and some other acitivties, but not school plays that ridiculous. I'm not saying because i've done drugs whatever you might want to call me. Im beign real and this is stupid and not fair and I'd presonally feel controlled and forced and beign scared into not doing what i want, however it might harm me.

Time for a cigarette

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

Originally posted by Mouth
I still fail to see where testing for illegal drugs is an infringement on rights and liberties. If you are so against these kind of laws, do you therefore support minors drinking? How about a 10-year-old buying cigarettes? Why does the government have the decisions on those laws?

Again, all the kids have to do is stay away from those illegal drugs, which get them in trouble in the first place.

A simple question may clear this up. Would you be willing to be randomly tested as you walked around conducting your daily business? Do you feel it would be acceptable for your goverment to compel you to submit to a completely random test as you sat at the park?

If not, why do you extend yourself more Constitutional protection that the teenagers attending this high school? I personally expect my child to be treated fairly ... meaning the same protections they have at the mall or the public library they should have at their school.

Thank You!

Another thing, I believe. Kids should learn from experiences. And if thier smart enough they'll learn. Let natural selection do its part, why don't ya. If they smoke too much weed they lose track of their life, and then the kids learns, if not then... From punishments, consequences whatever. If you keep your kids out of harms way how will you ever be proud of mindless controlled zombie, Forced into your way of thinking of an ideal life. Never happy because the kid never experienced anything. Let me note the kids with overprotective parents are the ones that, run away, get kidnapped, are stupidly rebellious, raped whatever stupid situation that can be escaped. Its unbelievable, how people can live "good lives" but never experience life, then something unfamiliar comes along and they don't know how to act, and evntually the worse happens.

[edit on 18-9-2006 by sympthons_WDF]

Some of my fellow teenage-ees may disagree with me-and may even hate me-for saying this, but I am all for it. In going to school every week-day I am subject to the presence of at least 2000 other students, of various backgrounds. By the way some of them smell/look/act I can tell that they are on some sort of drug or whatnot, and the teachers and administration and my school doesn't do much as tell them to go to the office. Unless they are visibly cought with drugs of sorts in their hands, they are not subject to punishment. I find this highly disturbing in that these students are free to cause disruption to the school setting. I put a lot into my education, and would think that the administration in my school would give a damn. But no, all they portray to care about is their precious sports programs. We have a small ammount of money to spend in our budget, and more than half of it goes to sports programs.

Do any of you know of a way I can confront the school board and see that there is some change to happen?

Originally posted by nephyx
To prevent a young person from having the private freedom to treat his or her body how they want, is a right the government shouldnt have.

The government clearly has the right to make some substances illegal or regulate their sale, consumption, etc.

Children are smart enough to know what drugs are bad and which drugs are harmless.

Ignoring the fact that its precisely that sort of statement that reveals that a person doesn't know what a dangerous drug is, clearly knowing a thing and acting correctly with that knowledge are two different things.

its the legal drugs that pose more of a threat to children (aderral, ritaline, cigarettes, alcohol).

More dangerous stuff than crack and heroin eh?

What other countries do this?

Pretty much every country in the universe regulates some drugs and outlaws other drugs.

Maybe you just dont take the right angle at communicating with your kids and thats why its so difficult for you.

Or maybe she does and the little bastards decide to misbehave anyway.

The hardest thing I find to deal with are people who have kids and think they should tell other people how to raise theirs. You have a child, congratulations. I dont, I have opinions. Deal with it.

And since the bulk of the population are people that either are dealing with their children or have dealt with their children, they're going to make the laws that they see fit. Why should the public make drugs legal in order to satisfy some kid who's doing drugs while his dad is working overtime and his mom is dealing with a pile of dishes in the sink?

Some drugs are illegal, there is no reason for the schools to not have drug testing, especially when there is a drug problem.

xmotex
Kids, on the other hand, have no choice but to go to school.

And children in school shouldn't be permited to use illegal drugs, especially while at school.

After all, if you're not committing any illegal sex acts, what do you have to worry about?

I don't know about your situation, but I don't have any schools in my bedroom. This is a public school that we are talking about, if they don't want to be drug tested, they are free to drop out. Hell, they drop out anyway.

df1
Government should not have the right to do this to children or adults. Perhaps you feel comfortable in a dog collar and leash, I do not. What you desire to vile and disgusting Imho.

Testing minors for use of illegal substances is vile? Making it illegal for children to smoke crack is disgusting?

You wish to impose a solution to your personal problems on everybody.

Welcome to society, I hope you enjoy your stay.

Who says that parents are performing inadequately,

You would argue that they are? Society at large determines such things. Society in general recognizes that children shouldn't be doing illegal drugs, and that there is nothing wrong with testing them, they're on state property, under state supervision, and if piss tests are part of that supervision, then so be it.

It seems to me that we need a means whereby parents can evaluate the performance of school systems

Such a situation already exists and is in use and has determined that there should be random drug testing in schools.

US school sysems are not getting kids educated because they are spending the money for purposes other than education, such as drug testing kids

And if no one was regulating the drugs, or minimally preventing drugs from being taken on campus during school hours, how could the school possibly properly educate kids? If the purpose of the school is to educate the kids, how does having stoned kids in class serve that purpose?

Fix the schools, parents on the whole are doing just fine.

So when the rest of us say that there are a lot of craphead parents out there, its 'who are we to say', but you're fully qualified to say that they are in fact doing a good job, despite the fact that theres so much drug consumption out there amoung children that schools are making them piss in cups to weed them out?

benevolent heretic
But they don't randomly stop kids and search for cigarettes or alcohol.

They do on school campuses. A public high school is an entirely different thing from the street or your home.

Just because they have kids captive in a controlled environment (school) does not give them the right to randomly inspect them to make SURE they are obeying the law.

Of course it does.

if it's ok that schools perform random drug testing, it must be ok if the cops randomly enter your house and do a search just to make sure you're following all laws

If you live in a school or a government office, sure.

it covered field trips, dances and almost any activity that would involve most of the student population.

Surely you see why these would be situations in which you'd want to test for drugs. Its the very situations in which they would be doing the drugs. And, espeically with sporting events or dances, anyone can not be tested by not going.

What happened to "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

Schools are acting in loco parentis, the constition doesn't prevent your parents from searching your room without a warrant. Heck, the constitution doesn't even prevent schools from putting the kibosh on freedom of speech, in schools. Thats the critical difference here, its in a school.

However, the schools need to recognize their place as an educational institution. The only person who can test my child without any probable cause and on a whim is ME!

You have legally given the school that right when you sent them there.

Would you be willing to be randomly tested as you walked around conducting your daily business?

This is an utterly different situation.

If not, why do you extend yourself more Constitutional protection that the teenagers attending this high school?

The government creates schools for the express purpose of providing a public civic education, actions that disrupt that purpose can be prohibited. Thats why you can't wear a 'f*ck you!" t-shirt to school, but can on the street. Children, especially minors, don't have the same protections against their guardians as they do against the government at large. And children who aren't minors don't have to attend school, if they want to, then they'll have to agreed to the schools rules, just like you'd have to agree to your bosses rules if you want to work for him.

I personally expect my child to be treated fairly ... meaning the same protections they have at the mall or the public library they should have at their school.

Legally, they don't. Their lockers and personal effects can be searched without warrant, their rights to free speech are completely restricted, and they're basically only at school to learn, anything else is contrary to the entire purpose of a government school.

koori
All I'm trying to say is if random drug testing in schools is going to save our childrens lives then I don't have a problem with it, but it seems that I'm NOT entitled to this opinion.

No one is saying you aren't entitlted to your opinion, its just that other people are entitled to disagree, and most expect you to, along with stating your opinion, have a reasonable arguement to support it.

Maybe we should just let our kids take drugs in the schools and get more kids addicted, would that make you happy????

Indeed, that is a pretty damned good and basic arguement for making drugs illegal and enabling schools to prevent kids from consuming drugs in schools.

sympthons_WDF
let them test athletes, and some other acitivties, but not school plays that ridiculous.

Why? Why single out atheletes?

Im beign real and this is stupid and not fair

Welcome to the real world.

and I'd presonally feel controlled and forced and beign scared into not doing what i want,

Drugs are already illegal, you can't argue against a law merely because it prevents from engaging in an illegal activity.

Its unbelievable, how people can live "good lives" but never experience life, then something unfamiliar comes along and they don't know how to act, and evntually the worse happens.

No ones going to 'fail at life' because they didn't do drugs. Taking drugs is not some necessary or even recommended portion of life. THe very fact that you're advocating having children take addictive chemicals demonstrates that these things must be kept illegal, and there must be tests in schools.

Maybe some posters on here would rather see kids being dragged in to court and then thrown in to jail or worse dead on the streets rather then being drug tested in schools where they can get councilling and help.

Yes, Drugs are EVIL, Bad Bad Bad. They will leave your children on the streets, raped, or turned into prostitutes. BEWARE DRUGS, they will kill you.

This has nothing to do with government taxes, Of course not, this has to do with safety!

The government cares about your kids? HAH. Kids can buy a shotgun at walmart, steal some liquor from daddy, get drunk and shoot everyone at school but you dont see conservatives complaining about that one.

This issue is why parents feel that the school needs to do this in the first place. Keep breathing down your kids neck, see what happens to them, you will be sorry I promise. These conservative laws and regulations are whats bringing this country down.

Thats whats wrong with this land of freedom, the hippocracy of it all...

Its this overprotective mentality that gets kids curious in the first place. Maybe if people could talk to their children about drugs instead of instilling FEAR FEAR FEAR they would learn to respect them and make decisions on their own accord.



/sarcasm

Its illegal, So accept it! Dont try to reform federal laws, Just deal with them!

This is society, It doesnt matter if you are in the minority, you have no reason to expect more out of the school systems. How dare we question the board of education.

//end sarcasm

[edit on 19-9-2006 by nephyx]