Originally posted by WolfofWar
So the gas stations own manager isn't reliable enough to state to have knowledge of where his camera was pointed?

thats makes sense.

Actually, I can clear this up right now. Right after I got outta the service, I started punching cash registers for a living - at West-T-Go #19 in San Angelo, which is a Citgo station. I work online now, only did the register thing for a little while
All Citgos follow the same security policies company-wide: maximum camera angles all over the gas island. This is to aid in identifying drive-offs (people who don't pay for their gas). Again, all Citgo stores have the same policy, common sense says this would be especially true for stores that cater to the government, wouldn't you agree?

I'm not sure where Jack's going with all this (I mean, I'm not sure what else could have hit the Pentagon, all evidence seems to point to Flight 77 at this point) this is one method in which you cannot discredit his work. This is damn good investigation, especially considering Jack is no LEO.

I'm highly, highly impressed Jack. We may not see eye to eye, but you're really turning up some dirt here, which I'll be honest is leading me to wonder: why all the secrecy after five years?

If I had any WATS left they'd all go to you.

I have a question Jack.

You say the one employee at the Citgo saw the plane go over on the left of the Citgo while the official story says the flight path was to the right. Did you ask this employee if they saw the plane hit the pentagon and if so, what kind of plane did they say they saw?

Sure like the "no planers" that I just mentioned.

Well... I haven't read the whole thread. A SkepticOverlord's work is never done.

But how in the heck they made that 757 hit the building and cause damage to the pentagon that is counterintuitive to a 757

I've always leaned in the direction that a large passenger aircraft struck the Pentagon on 9/11. Now that's not to say there weren't other factors either on the ground in on the aircraft that caused these confusing issues.

In fact, one of the very early credible-sounding theories came out mere weeks after the attack (3-5) from a supposed "insider". The general idea (I don't remember it all) was that competing ultra-dark groups in the Pentagon were intensely at odds. One of these groups supported (covertly) global terrorist operations and planned the attack to "take out" the other group. The plan required a modified 757 hitting just the right spot... and the NYC attacks were back story cover.

The interesting thing is that this theory has been completely cleansed from the Internet, and the site that originated things no longer exists.

You guys keep on going on about the citgo cameras. The camer was located on the ceiling. It was obviously there to watch for drive-offs. So where is the proof that the camera was not pointed where is was supposed to be?

Look at the angle of the cameras in the Citgo South Awing picture.

The camera would of had to have a vision of the island which would be below the camera facing the road so the angle of the camera would of been towards the ground.

On another note, where is the proof that the hotel camera was not pointing at the ground, as it should of been, watching the parking lot and instead was pointed at the pentagon?

These are simple questions and certain individuals seem to be advioding them.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by ferretman2]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Sure like the "no planers" that I just mentioned.

Well... I haven't read the whole thread. A SkepticOverlord's work is never done.

But how in the heck they made that 757 hit the building and cause damage to the pentagon that is counterintuitive to a 757

I've always leaned in the direction that a large passenger aircraft struck the Pentagon on 9/11. Now that's not to say there weren't other factors either on the ground in on the aircraft that caused these confusing issues.

In fact, one of the very early credible-sounding theories came out mere weeks after the attack (3-5) from a supposed "insider". The general idea (I don't remember it all) was that competing ultra-dark groups in the Pentagon were intensely at odds. One of these groups supported (covertly) global terrorist operations and planned the attack to "take out" the other group. The plan required a modified 757 hitting just the right spot... and the NYC attacks were back story cover.

The interesting thing is that this theory has been completely cleansed from the Internet, and the site that originated things no longer exists.

Do you have a place where this is located so that I might read about then two groups as you stated might have done 911. But, lets not forget the puts on the stock market and the billions in treasury notes.
The so called camera on the building might be a motion sensor for night security work. All federal building normally have motion sensors this is a cost saving agaisnt 24 hours maning of an area.
As for Jack tripper coming here and hiding information from the fbi and nsa and the movement of video tapes and pictures, well I believed he violated section 802 of the patriot act! I have learned not to mess with these guys they mean business
and if you have never been raided by a joint terrorism task force jack tripper, you better be prepared. As for you story very good indeed, did you see any government documents on release of authority from the owners of the tapes. The citgo station is only allowed for pentagon personnel, it makes one wonder why tapes are used to catch a penton employee gas grabber.

Thanks for your efforts, Jack Tripper! This is, imho, best thread about 9/11 I've read for many months!

Have WATS and a cold one on me

So after the thousands on posts on this website we still have people believing that a 757 hit the pentagon??

Also a number of people here have no real facts or views to discredit Tripper here but they still don't WANT to see a conspiracy? That is their business but it points to the obvious: there is a great divide here and it most likely exists for a reason.

The camera on the roof of the pentagon just above where the impact was looks like a modern wide angle type camera to me. I'm not that informed in this area but does anybody know if these types of cameras can be connected to motion detectors? What I mean can the camera zoom in on activity itself or is it always in a fixed range or view? The reason I ask is that since the plane came in fast it would not have been able for personnel to move the camera to get a close up but a closeup could have happened with sensors on the camera itself.

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
As I said in the Lloyd thread.....Dylan Avery invited Russell Pickering, Merc and myself to DC as research consultants for Loose Change Final Cut.


I was quite clear in giving Russell credit in this thread and mentioned when I was quoting him.

Apologies for having to mention it AGAIN!!!!

But it seems like SOME of the newer mods are unable to digest this clearly emphasised material.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Apologies for having to mention it AGAIN!!!!
But it seems like SOME of the newer mods are unable to digest this clearly emphasised material.

This issue was resolved two or three pages back and via private communication, so I don't see the need to bring it up again, especially in such a manner. Let's move on with the topic of the thread, thanks.






[edit on 2006-9-13 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by ferretman2

Thanks for the props man but all of your questions are answered in the thread

The queswtins regarding the cameras were never answered. All you stated was that the Citgo manager said the camera was pointing at the pentagon.

So what proof do you have that the hotel camera was not pointing down like it was supposed to be and what proof do have that the citgo camera was pointing at at the pentagon?

Just because the manager said it was??......what about the untold numbers who have stated that they witnessed a plane hit the pentagon?

Yes and I have a question too. Has no one researched where all the people on the flight that crashed into the Pentagon have gone? With all those missing people, surely that is enough proof along with the eyewitnesses that a plane hit the Pentagon.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by crustas]

You have voted Jack Tripper for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

i would vote for this russell guy too, but he's not on ATS (is he???)...

anyway, i have just fallen in love with this thread (this usually happins once or twice in a couple of months)...

this is really a great thread, no matter what your opinions are about 9/11 and conspiracies...

like SO said so greatly, we have an ATSer who did on site research (as opposed to google for example) and actually took first-hand photos and videos

thanks for sharing jack tripper and russell!!!

Pretty dorn pathetic if you can't answer some questions. It obvious the the 'citgo' camera couldn't see anything. It was locatecin the back under a rood that streched at leadt 30 feet and the camera was pointed down.

From the reaction by most in this thread you've proved the saying....

"there's a sucker born every minute''

Originally posted by Griff
I have a question Jack.

You say the one employee at the Citgo saw the plane go over on the left of the Citgo while the official story says the flight path was to the right. Did you ask this employee if they saw the plane hit the pentagon and if so, what kind of plane did they say they saw?

Great question.

Yes we asked him that and no he did not.

He didn't see it hit the light poles either which is even more significant since his view of the lower portion of the pentagon may have been obstructed but his view of the first 2 light poles was better than anyones.

But he did see a plane and he described it as "grey with no markings".

What's notable is that this is corroborated by every random unpublished eyewitness that we found.

They all described it as either white or grey with no markings.

Originally posted by Corgidancer

Originally posted by ferretman2

Thanks for the props man but all of your questions are answered in the thread

The queswtins regarding the cameras were never answered. All you stated was that the Citgo manager said the camera was pointing at the pentagon.

So what proof do you have that the hotel camera was not pointing down like it was supposed to be and what proof do have that the citgo camera was pointing at at the pentagon?

Just because the manager said it was??......what about the untold numbers who have stated that they witnessed a plane hit the pentagon?

Yes and I have a question too. Has no one researched where all the people on the flight that crashed into the Pentagon have gone? With all those missing people, surely that is enough proof along with the eyewitnesses that a plane hit the Pentagon.

How do we know that the people didn't land in the real plane in an abandoned military base and they are swimming in vats right at this very moment?

What witnesses? How many, their names and where do they live?

here is what the camera at mr valasquez's gas station would have seen.

No. The camera in question was located on the left side, rear corner. The picture that you happen to show is from the right side. Look at the picture below my last post.

My point is that a camera located on the left farest point from the road underneath a cieling that is at least 30 feet long, pointing at an angle to watch the gas isles would not be able to see the pentagon, let alone the roadway.

Did anyone here ever take geometry??

Look at the South and north awning pic by tripper. The cameras on the north awing.the one to the right is angled down and inward ~2 feet from the ceiling.

The next lane over the camera is pointed at an angle down the lane.....a direct line would go past the left side of the pentagon.

The South awing...the camera in the middle is pointed down to the left. The camera which was 'removed' would of either pointed down the lane or at an angle through the center. This presents two problems:

If the camera is pointed down the lane a direct line would pass the left side of the pentagon by alot......

If the camera was angled down toward the middle the booth would of been in the way.

It's a very deceptive picture becasue it was taken on an angle and not from the location of the 'removed' camera.

I have a bridge to sell you.......

[edit on 13-9-2006 by ferretman2]

[edit on 13-9-2006 by ferretman2]

Originally posted by Corgidancer

Originally posted by ferretman2
Has no one researched where all the people on the flight that crashed into the Pentagon have gone?

How do we know that the people didn't land in the real plane in an abandoned military base and they are swimming in vats right at this very moment?

Maybe all of the passengers from the airliners are being detained in secret CIA prisons in eastern europe.


[edit on 13-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]