Evidence for God

I used to believe in "god" and "Jesus". But then I did something unforgivable. So now I am not allowed into "heaven".

Jesus will forgive a lot of things, but don't speak against the "holy spirit" or you are screwed (perhaps nailed would fit better).

Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29 spell it all out.

Luke 12:10
Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Mark 3:29
Whosoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilt of an eternal sin.

So my question is this:

I can murder millions of people, ask for forgiveness and *poof* I'm allowed into heaven. However, if I say @!($ the Holy Spirit, or deny its existence I am doomed to hell?

Sounds to me like hell is going to be a happening pad.

Do a search for the "Hero of Tradition" written by Lord Raglan, to help out the lazy peeps here is the point scale (I will put a J next to the ones Jesus wins, and an M by the ones Moses wins) If Jesus is the "son of god" he should beat out mortal moses right?

From the "Hero of Tradition" by Lord Raglan
1: His mother is a royal virgin J M
2: His father is a king, and J M
3: Often a near relative of his mother, but M
4: The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and J
5: He is also reputed to be the son of god. J M
6: At birth an attempt is made, often by his father, to kill him, but J M
7: He is spirited away, and J M
8: Reared by foster-parents in a far country. M
9: We are told nothing of his childhood, but J M
10: Upon reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom. J M
11: After a victory over the king and/or giant, dragon, or wild beast, J M
12: He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and M
13: Becomes king. J M
14: For a time he reigns uneventfully, and J M
15: Prescribes laws, but J M
16: Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and J M
17: Is driven from the throne and city. J M
18: He meets with a mysterious death, J M
19: Often at the top of a hill. J M
20: His children, if any, do not succeed him. J M
21: His body is not buried, but nevertheless. J M
22: He has one or more holy sepulchres. J M

Score total Jesus = 19 Moses = 21.

Looks to me that Moses is a better candidate for being the son of god than Jesus is. Jesus, the one in the bible is fiction. Of course this is my opinion, and I am not one to impose my beliefs on others. That is for the religious types.

Lastly I know Jesus existed, in fact I know at least 6. One is my favorite waiter, and another works at a local bank. (Guess Jesus really does save!)

[edit on 2/11/2008 by adigregorio]

What on earth makes the story of jesus and god more important than other religions. Others have died for there beliefs also.

yeah but no one else came back to life. thats why.

Originally posted by LancerJ1
Thanks heaps guys for your responses

I wonder how many people discredit the New Testament without reading it for themselves. Just as you shouldn't judge any book without reading it for yourself the same goes for the New Testament. It is only the size of a large novel, so please read it if you have not done so.

Some of you guys are still asking for evidence, but i gave it in my original post. I dont have all the answers to your questions, but there is evidence if your willing to look for it and accept it.

I don't understanded why some of you don't want to believe in God? I think people like the part of God which is warm and friendly but dont want to accept the justice part of God because it means punishment and restriction and dont want to give up their lives for God. But a perfect God must be perfectly just.

Maybe God doesnt exist. But what if he does? This isnt the way you should look at it but i have been called to drastic measures. Are you willing to risk not believing? Are you willing to risk eternal punishment in Hell? If you are not willing to believe after reading the New Testament then there isnt anything more i can do. Ive tried to give logical reasons why God exists, and i find them very reasonable. If you do not believe after that, then it is no longer a logical problem but an intellectual one.

(P.S. If anyone who reads this and then believes it would be great to know

"large novel"...very accurate summation.

What on earth makes the story of jesus and god more important than other religions. Others have died for there beliefs also.

this is true, however, none others have conquered death like Jesus.

Originally posted by Methuselah

What on earth makes the story of jesus and god more important than other religions. Others have died for there beliefs also.

this is true, however, none others have conquered death like Jesus.

There are other mythologies and stories where people have come back to life.. doesn't mean they happened though.

Edit. Of course there are examples where people have died and been revived after some hours [usually after they've drowned in ice water or something].

[edit on 20-3-2008 by riley]

Edit. Of course there are examples where people have died and been revived after some hours [usually after they've drowned in ice water or something].

that was easy, you put the key words....

someone revived them.... after some hours.... dead meaning no pulse or heartbeat, notice that most of the time they dont monitor brain activity unless its a matter of pulling the plug.

Jesus died and was burried(placed in a tomb) that was guarded by roman soldiers to keep people from stealing his body and making a false claim. there was no one to revive him and no technology to do the same. and lets not forget he was in teh tomb for three days not three hours. he brought Lazerous back from the dead, someone who had started to decay. the tomb smelled of rotting flesh and Jesus ressurected him. and all he did was call his name.

There are other mythologies and stories where people have come back to life.. doesn't mean they happened though.

like who? honestly ive never heard of any of these. please share...

Originally posted by Methuselah

Edit. Of course there are examples where people have died and been revived after some hours [usually after they've drowned in ice water or something].

that was easy, you put the key words....

someone revived them.... after some hours.... dead meaning no pulse or heartbeat, notice that most of the time they dont monitor brain activity unless its a matter of pulling the plug.

Jesus died and was burried(placed in a tomb) that was guarded by roman soldiers to keep people from stealing his body and making a false claim. there was no one to revive him and no technology to do the same. and lets not forget he was in teh tomb for three days not three hours. he brought Lazerous back from the dead, someone who had started to decay. the tomb smelled of rotting flesh and Jesus ressurected him. and all he did was call his name.

so the story goes. Now prove it happened.

There are other mythologies and stories where people have come back to life.. doesn't mean they happened though.

like who? honestly ive never heard of any of these. please share...

Snow white.

What difference does it make how many fables I can list that have the dead coming back to life?

[edit on 20-3-2008 by riley]

wow dude, not very convincing that there are others like Jesus that are obviously not fairtale.

Jesus birth, life, miracles, death and resurrection are all documentation of eye witnesses.

let me ask you a question, and this question is only to prove a point..... have you lost anyone that you love? if so did they love you back?

Originally posted by Methuselah
wow dude, not very convincing that there are others like Jesus that are obviously not fairtale.

I see fairytales, fables and bedtime stories to be much the same thing. So if I can't find other fables with resurrected people in it.. how does that prove the story of Jesus real? Snow white may've been based on a real person..

Jesus birth, life, miracles, death and resurrection are all documentation of eye witnesses.

that may or may not have existed either.. hearsay from 2000 years ago doesn't quite cut it with me sorry.

let me ask you a question, and this question is only to prove a point..... have you lost anyone that you love? if so did they love you back?

Of course they did. Why would you ask such a question? That doesn't prove anything.. all human beings love people and lose them. It's a fact of life.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by riley]

reply to post by Methuselah


There's no evidence any of that happened, so using that as the basis for your argument is logically bankrupt from the outset.

that may or may not have existed either.. hearsay from 2000 years ago doesn't quite cut it with me sorry.

oh but ill bet someone without a degree in any sort of science writting a book with off the wall dates for geologic time periods would? dates made up out of the clear blue sky in attempt to explain the past well beyond 2,000 years... 20 billions years(which btw is a freakin huge number, try counting that to number by ones some day), based on a theory that doesnt have real scientfic evidence and is based on imagination and pure assumption. but of course you along with other people are blind to the evidences that disprove all of that, denying all truth is to deny the very things that make our lives worth living.

Of course they did. Why would you ask such a question? That doesn't prove anything.. all human beings love people and lose them. It's a fact of life.

prehaps but my point is, you cant prove that they loved you, or that you loved them back.

There's no evidence any of that happened, so using that as the basis for your argument is logically bankrupt from the outset.

ok Mr. I'm Despressed... never a good idea to speak out against something when you are not of sound mind. and just because you say that there is no evidence, that doesnt make it true... over 20,000 manuscripts have been found and translated into what we know as our bible. plenty of evidence to go around, plenty of physical evidence to even on the history channel. thry had two guys go the mountain where Moses received the 10 commandments, and the rock where water came gushing out, left mineral deposits and errosion marks.

plently of evidence to go around. only a fool says in his heart "there is no God"

[edit on 21-3-2008 by Methuselah]

[edit on 21-3-2008 by Methuselah]

This is absolutely rediculous and I am so tired of it. Please name your thread accordingly! There should be some kind of rule that says you cannot lie in the name of the trhread. OP You have absolutely no evidence of god and I'm a christian. But cmon provide some evidence not opinions, and generally understood and debatable stories. We heared all this before and you're using the bible to prove the bible. Seen it before. If you claim you have evidence and then show us none, well that's just a waste of time.

reply to post by adigregorio


A true Christian cannot commit a sin that is unforgivable. The unforgivable sin is denying the Holy Spirit's efforts for your entire life. If you die while still denying it then that is an unforgivable sin. It is something you can't do accidentally or even when your really really mad with God. It requires you to totally and absolutely and purposefully reject the Spirit and deliberately live a lifestyle that is against what God wants and deliberately not seek repentance.

So the unforgivable sin is extremely difficult to accomplish.

Don't worry mate, as a Christian you couldn't of committed the unforgivable because you had Christ in your life which is exactly opposite to what the unforgivable sin is.

Even though you may have abandoned God he has not abandoned you. Turn back to him and He will welcome you with open arms.

well Zealott maybe you would like to assist a brother in spreading the Gospel to some of these lost folks.

I Peter 3:15 says"but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with a meekness and fear:"

so my question to you "Christian" is why do you believe? what evidence can you provide? the only thing I can provide is something that has already been rejected, rejected by the school system, rejected by our society, and just about rejected by our Nation... the bible.

if we were to read it and understand it, we would be well off, but no we always have to take the easy way out.

"One Nation under God" ... not anymore, more like "One Nation about ready to crumble". Wow, wonder how that happened.

you will always be asking for evidence, but everything you get you will just refuse simply because admitting that there is a God means you have to change your life, means that rules that didnt apply before apply now, means that you can no longer do whatever you want however you want wherever you want with whoever you want. that is why people dont like religion, because they dont want to answer to an absolute authority.
Good luck with that one!

Zealott, you already admitted that you are a Christian, now lets hear some reason and lets have some evidences.

Thanks

Originally posted by Methuselah
well Zealott maybe you would like to assist a brother in spreading the Gospel to some of these lost folks.

If you hadn't noticed this forum is NOT a church and is not here for you to preach or try convert.

you will always be asking for evidence, but everything you get you will just refuse simply because admitting that there is a God means you have to change your life, means that rules that didnt apply before apply now, means that you can no longer do whatever you want however you want wherever you want with whoever you want. that is why people dont like religion, because they dont want to answer to an absolute authority.

Your assumption that atheists have no morals is presumptious and biggoted. and not what Jesus was meant to of preached anyway.

[edit on 21-3-2008 by riley]

reply to post by Methuselah


reply to post by Methuselah


mithras, osiris, odysseus (he literally went to hell and back), among others have come back to life...
osiris was completely dismembered...so it's obvious he was 100% dead

hmm...your whole "none of the others have conquered death" thing doesn't seem to hold that much weight.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


nice that you bothered to try educate him madd but we both know that it will fall on deaf ears and he will come up with a reason why those examples don't count.

Originally posted by Methuselah

that may or may not have existed either.. hearsay from 2000 years ago doesn't quite cut it with me sorry.

oh but ill bet someone without a degree in any sort of science

that degree would most likely be in some sort of geology related.. if you're discussing billions of years one would probably need an understanding of astronomy to be able to determine how old something is [using light years].

writting a book with off the wall dates for geologic time periods would? dates made up out of the clear blue sky in attempt to explain the past well beyond 2,000 years... 20 billions years(which btw is a freakin huge number, try counting that to number by ones some day),

The universe is only meant to be apx. 17 billion years old. Our planet is apparently about 5.2 billion years old. The fact that you say 20 shows that you do not have a grasp on the subject at all.

based on a theory that doesnt have real scientfic evidence and is based on imagination and pure assumption.

Utter nonsense. The scientific tests they use to determine the date of things have been proven to be credible. Your saying it's purely based on imagination and assumption is just wishful thinking. I am sorry science scares you so much.

but of course you along with other people are blind to the evidences that disprove all of that, denying all truth is to deny the very things that make our lives worth living.

There is no evidence that disproves it. All I have seen that attempts by creationists to undermind it by nitpicking science and then taking it out of context in an attempt to fool Jo public. This is call propoganda.

Of course they did. Why would you ask such a question? That doesn't prove anything.. all human beings love people and lose them. It's a fact of life.

prehaps but my point is, you cant prove that they loved you, or that you loved them back.

huh? that strikes me as a very foolish thing to say but I will indulge you.
If that were true there's be no human species as they'd be no family bonds. We are a very cpo-operative species and rely heavily on relationships, community and social interation.. this in itself proves people love eachother. When babies are born they a completely powerless.. [unlike other primates- human babies can't even roll over or lift their heads] they depend completely on the bond with the mother to survive. That maternal bond and others are what human beings call 'love'.

[edit on 21-3-2008 by riley]

If you hadn't noticed this forum is NOT a church and is not here for you to preach or try convert.

uhm if you have ever noticed that in the bible it never states to go to church to reach the lost people, it says go into the world. now im in Iraq right now and cannot leave, well im sure I could try but im also sure I would get some major trouble if i did.
Jesus said go out into the world, he didnt say stay in church and keep the Word for yourselves and if the lost people happen to walk in.... teach them also.

Your assumption that atheists have no morals is presumptious and biggoted. and not what Jesus was meant to of preached anyway.

ah but you just assumed that I assumed that atheists have no morals... I did not say that. I know plenty of people who dont believe in anything and are awesome people to hang out with. they dont believe in God or whoever else there is to believe in and they are moral people. read carefully! see this is the biggest reason people reject the bible, because they jump to conclusion without understanding the message that was being conveyed. and yes you would have to change your life (to one degree or another, you would).

Here is your senario... Jesus preached to a rich man, told him to obey the commandments and give to the poor.... the rich man said he did... now Jesus told him to give all he had to the poor and follow him. rich man said forget it..... do I need to explain this story?

Evidence for God.

Human Facts:
- Brain Capacity -

*Memory capacity of storing all the information in teh British Library.
*Computational speed in bits/sec equivilent to the national telephone system.
*its been estimated that there are more connections in the human brain then there are electrical connections in the world.
*human DNA strands are about 7 feet long and ever person has on average 50 trillion cells in their body. each cell contains 46 DNA strands. connect all of those together and it will go to the moon and back 5 million round trips.
*the human embryo produces 15,000 cells per minute each cell more complex than a space shuttle.

DNA and the fact that life cannot spontaneously generate on its own is just the tip of the iceberg and is plenty to prove that there is a God.

Originally posted by Methuselah

If you hadn't noticed this forum is NOT a church and is not here for you to preach or try convert.

uhm if you have ever noticed that in the bible it never states to go to church to reach the lost people, it says go into the world. now im in Iraq right now and cannot leave, well im sure I could try but im also sure I would get some major trouble if i did.
Jesus said go out into the world, he didnt say stay in church and keep the Word for yourselves and if the lost people happen to walk in.... teach them also.

1. I am not 'lost' and even if I were it's clear you do not have superior morals or philisophical insight than I so would not be fit to guide me morally or spiritually.
2. I do not care what you religion tells you to do.. just don't try cram it down my throat.

This forum is not a church.

.. it was not designed just to give you a place to preach.

Your assumption that atheists have no morals is presumptious and biggoted. and not what Jesus was meant to of preached anyway.

ah but you just assumed that I assumed that atheists have no morals... I did not say that.

You inferred that. otherwise you would not keep saying atheists are only atheist to avoid being moral.

I know plenty of people who dont believe in anything and are awesome people to hang out with. they dont believe in God or whoever else there is to believe in and they are moral people. read carefully!

If that is the case you should not assume that atheists you do not know are immoral [which you have].

see this is the biggest reason people reject the bible, because they jump to conclusion without understanding the message that was being conveyed. and yes you would have to change your life (to one degree or another, you would).

For all you know I might be living a christian life anyway so I might not have to change my life.

Here is your senario... Jesus preached to a rich man, told him to obey the commandments and give to the poor.... the rich man said he did... now Jesus told him to give all he had to the poor and follow him. rich man said forget it..... do I need to explain this story?

So the pope is poor now?!

Evidence for God.

Human Facts:
- Brain Capacity -

*Memory capacity of storing all the information in teh British Library.
*Computational speed in bits/sec equivilent to the national telephone system.
*its been estimated that there are more connections in the human brain then there are electrical connections in the world.
*human DNA strands are about 7 feet long and ever person has on average 50 trillion cells in their body. each cell contains 46 DNA strands. connect all of those together and it will go to the moon and back 5 million round trips.
*the human embryo produces 15,000 cells per minute each cell more complex than a space shuttle.

All this proves is that human evolution was quite successful.

DNA and the fact that life cannot spontaneously generate on its own is just the tip of the iceberg and is plenty to prove that there is a God.

Lack of knowledge does not prove the existence of a god.

[edit on 21-3-2008 by riley]