Racism rides the bus in 2006

Originally posted by marg6043
After reading and re-reading the article and comments, I kind of going to lean on mix feelings about the whole situation.

I guess I will wait to see what else comes out of the whole thing before making my final opinion of the issue.

Wait for what?

I'll summarize some the so far undisputed facts here. A bus driver encounters 9 black students, decides to assign only 2 seats for all of them at the back of the bus. On this 55-passenger bus, only 38 students would ride. What more does one need to know?

If this is not enough to outrage anyone with a small level of common sense, then perhaps racism has won the day.

What will come of this?

Most likely, the school district will handle it all discreetly, and behind closed doors. Perhaps some settlement with the parents, who then, if they go public will be made to look as if they did it all to get money.

Racism is alive and well in the USA, though is quickly dismissed, or spun into oblivion.

I guess we can now sweep this one under the rug as well.

I guess the moral to this story will ultimately be, If you are black, have children and choose to live in small town rural America, then put your kids on a bus for school with a majority of white kids, DO NOT bitch about the seats they are assigned, or the racists they will encounter.




[edit on 26-8-2006 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Yet, you'll note that not even the worst spun articles are saying that the driver assigned ALL black children to the back of the bus. Just the nine. You're inserting "ALL" into the story where it doesn't exist.

For all we know, the original assignments were made alphabetically.

This is Red River Parish...not the Catskills. The chance that there were only nine black children on the bus closely approximates to zero.

The near unexplainable "making the younger ones sit on the older ones' laps" suddenly makes sense if the late-addition children story is true.

if you had bothered to read the entire article:




there were nine black children total. ALL NINE were assigned two seats at the rear or the bus. after the complaint, the driver was told that if some were assigned, then all children needed to be assigned seates, which would imply that if all the black children had their "assigned seates" then she would have to assign all the white children their seats as well. well if the white children hadn't been assigned yet, it would mean that at the timing of this article, the white children were free to sit in any seat they chose, with the nine black children confined to two seates in the back of the bus.

..something like this is horrible. Everyone knows the "meaning" of the rear of the bus.

While some may think its "cool" to sit in back, the implication is what it always has been. BLACKS TO THE REAR.

There's no excuse for this bus driver. I hope they fire his lillywhite ars.

Originally posted by karby

if you had bothered to read the entire article:

Ahem...if YOU had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen where I conceded the point a few minutes later:

Well, if THAT's the true story, she should be given the boot, and they should look into the other drivers as well.

There are ways to seat them that make more sense, like loading from the back to the front so that there's less blocking in the aisle. But ordering by color is nuts.

Now, do this: go get you a nice cloth, dampen it, and gently wipe the froth away from the corners of your mouth. There. Looks better already.

A reminder:
Not every single day, but the majority of the time, Louisana school busses are overcrowded. We have never spent the needed funding on busses. As it is, we don't pay teachers enough to teach. No wonder there's a lack of education down here.

It's why the majority of kids old enough to have a job, do, and drive to school down here. There were 3x as many student cars at my school (compared to teacher's cars), and most of those students picked up "less fortunate" friends. Most schools have lsss student parking than we did.

My highschool had about 1000-1500 people and we're not overcrowded like other Parishes are (some H.S. have 2500+ and their busses drop off students at both the High School and the Jr. High ... we some 6 major highschools, and some smaller ones, too.

Elementary schoos have a diffrent schedule so that way the highschool busses with shorter routes could go pick up elementary kids.

Most drivers know their kids for years, by name. This driver could have very well thought more of the kids would have shown up...and by that, have handled it badly. (Personally, I would have dealt with overcrowding when it arrived, not prevent it before it happened. That requires stopping the bus.)

When I was in school, I had to ride on an overcrowded school bus plenty of times. The difference was the first come, first served rule. There is no excuse for making all the black children to sit at the back of the bus. It is the height of insensitivity.

What I find interesting is that some feel the need to defend this driver and her actions. It doesn't matter what her reason is, the fact is she segregated the students and sent the black kids to the back of the bus. You'd have to be incredibly ignorant of history, insensitive to peoples feelings and plain stupid to think you can do that without upsetting someone.

Originally posted by Duzey
What I find interesting is that some feel the need to defend this driver and her actions.

Amazing isn't it? Seeing others say that it must have been overcrowded, or were there other blacks on the bus, when the reports state that these 9 students were the only blacks, and there were only 38 on a bus built to carry 55.

It reminds me of the mentality among some people watching news reports following hurricane Katrina. I was shocked when I heard people say things like "It's only poor blacks and white trash that are left behind, they shouldn't expect the government to take care of everything for them" or "they should have got out when they were told." etc...

Many of these people watched from the comfort of their homes, on television the suffering and pain of mostly black people for over 5 days, and still made excuses for the lack of action. When you see hundreds of men women and children doing without food and water, in extreme heat, surrounded by filthy water, feces and urine.. with dead bodies near by, and no help in sight... and defend the government actions, I have to wonder what is wrong with you.

Better yet, what is wrong with the USA?

Could it have been the color of skin, and or lack of financial status?

I believe racism has many levels, and perhaps the worst is the one that has infected some people and they don't even know it.

I think it is clear now in the case of this bus driver that she knew these students were black, and obviously she knew where the back of the bus was, because that is where she put them.

The bus was not overcrowded, and there were plenty of seats available.

Bottom line, racism is indeed alive and well in the USA, and in 2006, not that much has changed.

deny ignorance


[edit on 28-8-2006 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Amazing isn't it? Seeing others say that it must have been overcrowded, or were there other blacks on the bus, when the reports state that these 9 students were the only blacks, and there were only 38 on a bus built to carry 55.

It reminds me of the mentality among some people watching news reports following hurricane Katrina. I was shocked when I heard people say things like "It's only poor blacks and white trash that are left behind, they shouldn't expect the government to take care of everything for them" or "they should have got out when they were told." etc...

Many of these people watched from the comfort of their homes, on television the suffering and pain of mostly black people for over 5 days, and still made excuses for the lack of action. When you see hundreds of men women and children doing without food and water, in extreme heat, surrounded by filthy water, feces and urine.. with dead bodies near by, and no help in sight... and defend the government actions, I have to wonder what is wrong with you.

Better yet, what is wrong with the USA?

Could it have been the color of skin, and or lack of financial status?

I believe racism has many levels, and perhaps the worst is the one that has infected some people and they don't even know it.

UM, it could also be that we're waiting to get more info instead of jumping to conclusions.

Yet, you have called several of us racist, which is a direct and vile insult.

UM_Gazz, I call you to the table for violating the Terms and Conditions in a most heinous way.

If the moderators of the forum are above the laws of the forum, then the forum is a joke.

I demand an apology. Immediately.

I summon Simon to the thread for judgement.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Yet, you have called several of us racist, which is a direct and vile insult.

UM_Gazz, I call you to the table for violating the Terms and Conditions in a most heinous way.

Show me where... Quote where he called people racists.

Did I miss something?

Read the post. I've issued a complaint to the supermods, it's their opinion I'm after.

I have not called anyone a racist, read my post again, I am talking about RACISM.

Amazing, simply amazing. You want me to apologize for calling you and others racists, when I have not done anything of the kind.

Please show me where I called any one person here including yourself a racist, give me real proof and I'll give you and apology.


Gazz

Originally posted by verfed
Was the bus overcrowded and the driver was simply trying to find a awy to seat everybody? Why else would children need be sitting on their fellow peers laps? If so I don't know why the little black kids could be sitting on white kids laps on the back of the bus but maybe the little black kids knew the older black kids better so it would be best for them to be sitting on their laps.

Obviously their are many questions. This may be a cut and dry case of racism but I'm doubting that at this point just from reading that one article. Although it's easily understable the immediate calls of racism because if looked at from the wrong angle this does look very bad.

Well that would make sense wouldn't it.. of course it comes off as white folk bein racist, so uh.. well you just can't defend that can you.

I mean.. a white person being racist, but not really intending to be racist has to be viewed as racist even though alot of people may think it wasn't really racist can't say that it wasn't racist because the simple act of saying the non-racist act was not racist is infact racist.

That is the society we live in.

We think that we live in a "melting pot" where we all become the same people through the act of converting to a general society where we are all equal, where everyone is alike, where there is no racial or ethnic or cultural diferences that are voiced, and the ones that are, are scorned or prosecuted.

That is a lie, a myth, it is what we tell our children to hide the ugly truth that is we are not in anyway alike, that the past crimes have not been forgiven, that the future will be, like today the same or worse.

Societys that forget who they are, who have nothing to identify themselves with, who have no history, they collapse because there is nothing to hold the people together.

Stories like this, as sad as they are, as true as they may be, from hearsay we learn of these alligations, they are a true bright reminder of what our world is like. Eventually I think this will explode, not between blacks and whites, between everyone, there are so many cultures being cramed together on this continent it is only a matter of time. All it takes is one crisis and all the work to hold things together become undone, just imagine the outcome of the hispanic protest if they rioted with their Mexican flags?

You may think you do those little black children a good deed by telling all of us here that the white bus driver was an evil racist bigott, though the truth is hard to see you automatically assume guilty, you do not do them a favor, only show the true tension between the races.

I have not called anyone a racist, read my post again, I am talking about RACISM.

Ok...you know you said it, stop waffling. But if you want me to pick it apart, here you go:

1) Duzey: What I find interesting is that some feel the need to defend this driver and her actions.

2) UM_Gazz: Amazing isn't it? Seeing others say that it must have been overcrowded, or were there other blacks on the bus, when the reports state that these 9 students were the only blacks, and there were only 38 on a bus built to carry 55.

directed at:
Tom Bedlam: This is Red River Parish...not the Catskills. The chance that there were only nine black children on the bus closely approximates to zero.

and

jlc163: Not every single day, but the majority of the time, Louisana school busses are overcrowded. We have never spent the needed funding on busses.

What others could you mean?

Your reaction to these posts:

"It reminds me of the mentality among some people watching news reports following hurricane Katrina...Many of these people watched from the comfort of their homes, on television the suffering and pain of mostly black people for over 5 days, and still made excuses for the lack of action. "

So you have lumped us in with "these people" and the reason for our statements MUST BE: "I believe racism has many levels, and perhaps the worst is the one that has infected some people and they don't even know it."

Come on, Gazz, have the courage of your convictions. You clearly wrote this post with this in mind.


ps

Hear me, O Supermods!

The insinuation of racism in order to stifle the free flow of communication is one of the most insidious forms of censorship. Reading through the thread, it will appear obvious to you that Gazz feels strongly about this, so strongly that no other possibility can be true. Fine. What's not fine is the tossing out of the concept that if you don't agree, you are racist, and perhaps "are racist without knowing it".

There's no faster way to kill off communication. No one wants to be considered racist (most anyway) so such an accusation, no matter how couched in puerile circumlocution, will generally squelch any further discussion.

Gazz is still trying to claim it wasn't said. However, I believe that any reasonably intelligent adult reading for comprehension here will understand what Gazz is trying to imply.

I call on you to dispense justice fairly. Do your T&C's mean anything?

[edit on 28-8-2006 by Tom Bedlam]

What about it people, and staff, have I called anyone a racist here?

If you think that taking that paragraph of mine is proof, then show me where I use the word racist when you allege that I was talking about them?

I was talking about racism, also about how racism has many levels, from the obscure, to subtle, all the way to the extreme or KKK, and how "some people" can be infected and not even know it.

I will not apologize for expressing an opinion on racism, that was NOT directed at any one member in this thread.

I will not apologize for talking about a state of mind. Or what others may or may not think on a given topic.

If I have broken any of the T&C here, I am sure in very short order you will see the weight of all ATS staff come down on me.

Wow, what else can I say?

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Read the post. I've issued a complaint to the supermods, it's their opinion I'm after.

How about one of the owners of AboveTopSecret.com, LLP?


I don't see anything that is an issue. UM_GAZZ made several generalized statements in the course of responding to an interactive discussion where racism is indeed part and parcel of the topic. He classified certain actions and modes of thought as racist... not specific members.


In my opinion, only someone desperately searching to find cause to generate board drama within the posts of a moderator would assume his comments were intended to call a specific member racist.

By that logic then, shall I then feel free to go to the paranormal forum and post something on the order of:

"I've heard many people say that they can channel thoughts from long dead wise people.

It reminds me of pp643 of my DSM-IV, where it states that people who hear voices or receive thoughts which they believe to be "other generated" are most often schizophrenic.

It's sad in this day and age when the mentally ill are allowed to walk the streets without the benefits of medication and counseling. Mental illness can creep in and infect people who have no idea that they are ill"

Now, I've not called ANY ONE person on that thread insane. I can put my hand on my chest, look askance and say "Mois? Accuse any on this thread of insanity? No, no no! I am speaking in general of mental illness! I think all mentally ill people should receive treatment! I stand firm on my belief that all people should have free access to counseling!"

Yet I have no doubt that Simon would squash that like a bug, because it would be bloody obvious what I meant, although I didn't say "Uberfox, you are nuts! Superjoan, you are a total moonbat!" And he would be correct in doing so.


ps...not directed at you, Skeptic Overlord.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by Tom Bedlam]

Actually, we also attempt to "squash like a bug" pointless attempts to derail the topic of a thread.

Let's get back on point to the issue of a news story indicating an event that forced black children to different standards than white children.

If The Shoe Fits...

You can take it personally if you like, though UM_Gazz didn't name names.

He did however identify behavior that he apparently found disturbing and disagrees with, and there's nothing wrong with saying so.

Members are quite free to discuss the opinions and online behavior of other members. If another member thinks you're wrong, there is no rule against saying as much.

There may be a bit of a gray zone in the sense that sometimes people tend to think criticisms of their behavior are personal attacks, because sometimes that can be true in a logical sense (although frankly I'm having trouble thinking of an example -- I'm just allowing for the possibility of one).

But I don't see how any member can truly be inseparable from the sort of behavior UM_Gazz is criticizing.

People complain about smoking, too, but that doesn't mean they intend to insult smokers by saying so, nor that all smokers should take it as a personal attack when another member condemns smoking.

So it is my opinion that the complaint is without merit in this case.

Bus Error 255

I hope it is clear that I am very big on politeness, and indeed, I hope you won't take offense to anything posted in this post or this thread.

For the record, I don't think anyone here is a racist, but we all practice racism to some degree or another, large or small. I think it's hardwired into the species, myself.

Nonetheless, UM_Gazz didn't call anyone here a racist, and I see no need to become indignant over an imagined slight.

Now maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions, but the facts as presented in the original story are damning in themselves.

Unless there is something seriously wrong with that story (which is possible, though not yet established), there is something seriously wrong with the bus driver in this case, and that's what I see being commented on, since anything else would truly be wild speculation at best without the benefit of further information. :shk:

Your Mileage May Vary, and I very well could be wrong (and if so, please point out the flaws in my reasoning), but I call 'em like I see 'em, and that's how I see this one.

Were those kids giving the bus driver a hard time or distracting him from fulfilling his duties in any way? If so, then he did the right thing in moving them as far from the driver as he could (for safety reasons). If not, and the children were behaving properly and he assigned them the back of the bus for no apparent reason, then he's dead wrong and should be fired.

He has a long employment and has never had complaints previously. What changed? Did he change or is the behavior of this group of chilldren different from bus loads in the past?

I don't know. I'm asking.

If the children were behaving properly and he assigned them the back of the bus for no good reason ... then he's dead wrong and should be fired. If he did it for no reason, then I'd be afraid to trust him with my child. This would be a major safety issue.

Blacks at the back of the bus? jezzus, I thought that crap went out with hula hoops, poodle skirts, and aprons. Its sooooooooooooo 1950's.

There are pockets in America that seem to have resisted evolution and advancement. Hopefully, like any other isolated pocket of life, these will die out or adapt and evolve with the rest of us.