Burning Flag

I have beem hearing alot of things on the news about flag burning.
Why would any Natural Born American ever want to burn their own flag?

The flag of this great nation Represents the men and women who have died for this country,and their beliefs of what America is to them.

There should be no reason why the Congress would ever vote no on this and I think that it should be a minimum of a $100 fine on flag buring.

Yes, I know that the members that oppose this idea will point out Freedom Of speech,and civil protest ,but think about the limit on that,You wouldn't want someone buring something that meant alot to you even though it is just cotton.

Bottomline flag burning should be illegal in this nation where so many have died to protect the values that the flag symbolizes




TRw

I'm sorry, but I just think this whole flag-burning, flag-waving drivel really ought to stop. Einstein once said "flags are a sad proof that man is still a herd animal". More to the point, they're an instrument of mind control. Get someone all worked up about a flag and it's easier to point them at another country and say, "go get 'im, boy!"

I just have NO PATIENCE with this kind of sentimental drool.

Originally posted by The_Result_was
Why would any Natural Born American ever want to burn their own flag?

Why would any law-abiding citizen want to own a firearm? Why would they want to own more than one? Why would they want to own a semi-automatic rifle or a MAC-10? Why would anyone want to worship in anything other than the Christian Church? Why would anyone want to protest the government?

You don't have to understand WHY someone would want to do something. These are our rights. You don't have to understand them or comprehend how someone would want to exercise them. They are still our rights.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You don't have to understand WHY someone would want to do something. These are our rights. You don't have to understand them or comprehend how someone would want to exercise them. They are still our rights.

So would you also be in favor of tearing down the white house just because George Bush is in power or would you burn the capitol because the repulicans are in majority?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Why would any law-abiding citizen want to own a firearm? Why would they want to own more than one? Why would they want to own a semi-automatic rifle or a MAC-10?

I think that you captured my Ideas in republican contrast.First off I own a small hand gun for protection of my family.Second I've never fired it .Third I agree why would someone want to own more than one firearm.



TRw

[edit on 26-8-2006 by The_Result_was]

double post

mods please delete

[edit on 26-8-2006 by The_Result_was]

double post

mods please delete

[edit on 26-8-2006 by The_Result_was]

Originally posted by The_Result_was
So would you also be in favor of tearing down the white house just because George Bush is in power or would you burn the capitol because the repulicans are in majority?

Uhh... no. Unlike free speech and firearm ownership, tearing down or burning up buildings without permits is against the law and not Constitutionally-protected rights.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Third I agree why would someone want to own more than one firearm.

Maybe they hunt, shoot for sport, for fun, have several areas in their home at which they'd like to have a home protection firearm handy. Maybe they are a collector and just love firearms. Why shouldn't they have more than one? It's not against the law and it's a Constitutionally-protected right.

Again, just because you choose to have one firearm and never fire it, doesn't mean everyone else in the country should make the same choices that you do.

P.S. I think it's very unwise to have a firearm (for home protection) and never have fired it.

I am caught betwixt and between on this issue.

On one hand, I am all for protest, freedom of speech, all that good stuff that goes along with it. Yet...

On the other hand, I am apparently one of those herd animals that Einstien was refering to. I have issues with burning the symbol of my country as a form of civil protest. It represents too many good things to me to allow me to view it burning as anything less than abhorent.

Confusion, thy name is Seagull. Although I am fairly certain I am not alone in this seeming conundrum.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Third I agree why would someone want to own more than one firearm.

Maybe they hunt, shoot for sport, for fun, have several areas in their home at which they'd like to have a home protection firearm handy. Maybe they are a collector and just love firearms. Why shouldn't they have more than one? It's not against the law and it's a Constitutionally-protected right.

Again, just because you choose to have one firearm and never fire it, doesn't mean everyone else in the country should make the same choices that you do.

P.S. I think it's very unwise to have a firearm (for home protection) and never have fired it.

I was not sugesting that every one make the same choices as I when it comes to owning firearms.Fire arms are protected by the constitution, it was just my
thought

just for the record,What i meant was that i haven't fired it in anger but i have had my pistol test fired at a local police station to check that everything works as it is supposed to.Also i do own more than one firearm but because I have a 3 year-old child at home saftey is the of most importance and my other pistols are
in another residence.

Uhh... no. Unlike free speech and firearm ownership, tearing down or burning up buildings without permits is against the law and not Constitutionally-protected rights.

So you would burn down the Capitol in protest with a permit?
You wouldn't care about the history ang symbolic refrence the building has?



TRw

Seagull, there's a difference between being against something (as you seem to be) and wanting to make it illegal so NOBODY can do it, which the OP seems to favor.

There's nothing wrong with having issues with people burning the flag. There's nothing wrong with thinking it's wrong. But the minute you move to try to make it illegal, to suppress other people's First Amendment rights, then we got ourselves a true conundrum.

Originally posted by The_Result_was
I was not sugesting that every one make the same choices as I when it comes to owning firearms.

But you are suggesting everyone make the same choice as you when it comes to free speech. By suggesting that flag-burning be made illegal you are suggesting everyone be forced to make the same choice you would as regards free speech.

Fire arms are protected by the constitution,

So is Free Speech, including flag-burning.

That's my point. You're picking and choosing which rights people should be allowed to exercise based on which rights YOU think are ok.

Firearms - Good
Free Speech - Not so much

So you would burn down the Capitol in protest with a permit?

No, I personally wouldn't. I have no interest in burning down a building or a flag.

You wouldn't care about the history ang symbolic refrence the building has?

I'm not big on symbols. So that doesn't mean a lot to me.

But my point is that regardless what I would choose to do, I don't think everyone should choose to act as I do. As long as people abide by the Constitution and the laws, I'm good, whether I agree with them or not!

Im sorry.... but you cannot be serious, burning the Flag is wonderful. It does not in any way shape or form disparage the acts of herorism and sacrafice of our citizens. It is the HIGHEST form of patriotism right up there with dissent.

The flag is a symbol... and has power as such. Burning that symbol is one of the most powerful ways to show your "elected" leaders that they are screwing up.... More to the point.... you seriously want to ban it.... HUH?!

And explain to me how owning a Hand gun protects you and your family.... If a person breaks into your house at night all quite like and takes your child or stabs you or your wife in your sleep how exactly is that gun going to protect you.... Would you not be safer if NO one not even the military had guns.

Guns are a form of social control.... they are a horrid idea... if you have need to take a person's life I personally believe you should have to do it up close and personal... you should suffer the pain of watching another die.... a lead bullet is just wrong.... but i digress

Flag burning is protected speech... and you bet ur arse they ever ban flag burning first thing im doing is going out and buying a case of Flags made in China... cause everyone knows a truly patriotic flag comes from china... and im burning them...

I understand and respect your ideas about the Flag... but to even think about banning the right to burn the flag is just ludicris....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Firearms - Good
Free Speech - Not so much

Freedom of speech is important and is what this nation was founded on but to do something like burning a flag is horrible,I am all for civil protest,but to destroy the flag under wich civil protest is allowed is to me immoral.




TRw

It's ok if you think it's wrong and immoral. But to force your morals on others by making a law against what YOU think is wrong, when our founding fathers AND the highest court in the land support it is a little questionable, don't you agree?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's ok if you think it's wrong and immoral. But to force your morals on others by making a law against what YOU think is wrong, when our founding fathers AND the highest court in the land support it is a little questionable, don't you agree?

I have to say that I do.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree TRW... cause i just dont see where you are coming from... Immoral... what its a sin now.... meh... sorry... flag burning is way too important to be immoral....

elsenorepompom,
I now agree that it shouldn't be law but it also isn't rite,
To burn something that that symmbolises freedom of speech,or to burn something that many have given their lives to defend thats just not rite,

In no way did I say it was a sin,it is just in my opinion, immoral to burn a flag because it's protected by the Bill of Rights.


TRw

Yes there is a difference between the two. Laws that try to correct morals never work, have never worked, never will work. King Canute proved that. Legislating behaviour, even in such a grandious fashion as a constitutional amendment is foolish, and weakens the very document the supporters of such an amendment claim to revere above all others.

I know its been said many times before, and will be again many times, so I'll indulge myself . I may not agree with the sentiment expressed by burning the flag, but I will defend unto the death the right to do so. Not original maybe, but a fair statement of my belief.

TRW... i can almost see where you are comming from... but think about it like this... the flag stands for all that stuff you were talking about.... by burning it... its showing that what the "elected" leaders are doing is so wrong and foul as to completely negate all of the heroism and sacrafice symbolized by our flag... maybe that helps clear up why the Flag has to be burned from time to time.... It is a powerful messege burning the Flag... and while I dont believe that we should be willy nilly burning flags... I simply cannot condone an amendment to stop flag burning... as I said before.... "you" (inclusive not excuslive) ban it... Ill burn it


good topic non-the-less made me think about why we should be allowed to burn our flag.

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
TRW... i can almost see where you are comming from... but think about it like this... the flag stands for all that stuff you were talking about.... by burning it... its showing that what the "elected" leaders are doing is so wrong and foul as to completely negate all of the heroism and sacrafice symbolized by our flag... maybe that helps clear up why the Flag has to be burned from time to time.... It is a powerful messege burning the Flag... and while I dont believe that we should be willy nilly burning flags... I simply cannot condone an amendment to stop flag burning... as I said before.... "you" (inclusive not excuslive) ban it... Ill burn it

I think I do get where your coming from,
I posted it last nite to vent after I saw my neighbors burning a flag.
I wanted to see what other members thought of this contreversial issue.
By the response I got,I think that most members are against flag burning but believe that it is the ultimate form of civil protest that is protected by the Bill of Rights.
I have changed my stance in that it should not be outlawed,but I am sure that there are other members that feel otherwise.


TRw