Let's talk about Iranian F-14

Originally posted by paraphi
Engines just make the thing get off the ground. I am afraid that neither of us know whether Shafaq will get into production and to what extent. I hypothesise that Shafaq will not get passed the prototype stages because it will be easier to buy from China and they’ll probably get a better plane too!

The grammar of your English is really familiar.
For trainer, I don't think there are any one in China would be better than Shafaq, even that use RD-33/93. I only agree that Iran will buy J-10 or Su-30, if they actually need advanced fighter.

Found this:

Video of F-14 carrying HAWK

Another one

Footage from some air exercise they had. No firing of these HAWK in mid-air though. They sure are very proud of themselves been able to mate the American HAWK to the American F-14, which will very likely be used against the Americans should any conflict erupt.

I'm very doubtful of the number of F-14 Iran can actually field, but these tomcats, now with HAWK instead of phoenix, will pose a serious threat to the first wave of US fighters and bombers flying their mission carefully among the S-300 sites.

I also think that giving up long range a2a missile is a serious impolicy of US force.

I think that it would be pretty funny to watch the last F-14D squadron deploy out of NAS Oceana and destroy the last F-14As that Iran has. I'm sure that a few squadrons of Super Hornets will have their backs along with an EA-6B squadron. I won't even mention that the Air Force would also be there to help out with F-22s or some other stealth platform. Iran would try to even this unfair air battle out somehow, but the odds will fall in the favor of the US since they would know what the Iranians would plan on doing to gain the upper hand. You don't go and play in someone else's backyard unless you have great intel, something that we are good at getting and even better at not letting the public know we have. Yes the chances Iran shooting down a US aircraft exist, but what are the odds of that happening? I won't even go into the support the US aircraft have from their friends orbitting in outerspace.

For those who worked on F-14s they already know how many mods happened to the older A and B models, not to mention the D models. Do you think that Iran kept up with these mods or had engineering support like the US had? Even if they figured out how to keep their Tomcats flying, how good will they stand up against our newer versions? Will their airframes hold up? Will the Iranian pilots understand that they are being targeted before they ever see who's shooting at them? The US wouldn't start to retire an aircraft if it still had a mission critical function. Just like the cars of the 60s, today's hot rods are faster and more efficient, so it might seem like a good fight, but it will be over before Iran know it started.

Originally posted by NotheRaGe
I'm very doubtful of the number of F-14 Iran can actually field, but these tomcats, now with HAWK instead of phoenix, will pose a serious threat to the first wave of US fighters and bombers flying their mission carefully among the S-300 sites.

The first wave of fighters would be F-22s. I'm pretty sure that the Tomcats will be knocked out before they realized what happened. The Super Hornets and Eagles would take care of the rest of them,

as you said jfraizer.depends on the piolets capability.i might have to consider tomcats winning.they are one of the fastest interceptors.guess what the thing can destroy an icbm.(of course the piolet would die what are you crazy?)ifit happened.
tomcats can launch very very long range missiles.and if the 22 gets behind unknown i would call the piolet a coward for striking on the back without knowing.
if im right the 22 can be outrunned,gunned and even out dated if the plane had a head on head dogfiht.(still no offence)just a tricker.

as much as the f-22 is a great air craft
on the downside it hasnt been tested in combat situation so saying sending in a squadren of f-22 to destroy irans f-14 is a mouthfull i even doubt the US would out f-22s in the line of fire seeing the value they put on the armed forces

I was thinking something like that. With the ease of use of unmanned drones and cruise missles, I honestly thing that the first strike will be with these weapons then following up with F-22's then F-15's as the air defenses were worn down.

With the US government already being pressured by its people to start pulling back on the military and to bring them home, I don't think that the government would be able to justify a long-term 'exercise' and invade Iran. Some airstrikes...maybe, but with Iran starting to cooperate *knocks on wood* we may not need to worrk about see what Iran has up their sleeve.

Originally posted by bodrul
as much as the f-22 is a great air craft
on the downside it hasnt been tested in combat situation so saying sending in a squadren of f-22 to destroy irans f-14 is a mouthfull

No its not, some things are a given, just because an off the line Ferrari hasn't 'officially' raced yet doesn't mean it wont beat a Model T in a race. And Psycho, please read up on the F-22, if flown properly it will have no problem against any modern fighter aircraft.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
No its not, some things are a given, just because an off the line Ferrari hasn't 'officially' raced yet doesn't mean it wont beat a Model T in a race. And Psycho, please read up on the F-22, if flown properly it will have no problem against any modern fighter aircraft.

ok my bad i mean formula one and putting an air craft into situation where it will be against enemy that will do everything in their power to track and destroy it is very similer

send in the f-22 it does everything it says on the box

Originally posted by bodrul
ok my bad i mean formula one and putting an air craft into situation where it will be against enemy that will do everything in their power to track and destroy it is very similer

Wow, is that sarcasm? Need to work on it a bit more me thinks. Again, when you have an inferior fighter with inferior support systems it does not matter how hard you try and fight an F-22 that has backing from the rest of the USAF, fact of the matter is you wont win. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by bodrul
send in the f-22 it does everything it says on the box

Actually it does quite a bit more than what's advertised, and it does it well I may add. Again you don't have to take my word for it though I'd be happy to direct you to a more credible source.

my sarcasm does suck no arguing there (its almost 2am sue me :lol

seriously though what is it with americans and underestimating their foes?

example
Iraq was suppose to be a walk over after the intial invasion (US casuilties high)

^thats just an example of americans and them under estimating Iraqi rebels,terrorists (what ever people want to label them)

on Iran everyone here has jumped in with the US will send in the f-22
which has been tested and has proven real good, but hasnt been tested in combat
so i dont hold its effectiveness as high as the f-14 and other air craft that are proven in a combat situation,


also Iran have the latest radars from russia and china (china whom also get some good gear from Israel)

also the f-22 may encorporate stealth design but that doesnt mean its totaly invible on radar and so forth,


i will add more in the morning right now i need shut eye before i fall asleep on my keyboard

on Iran everyone here has jumped in with the US will send in the f-22
which has been tested and has proven real good, but hasnt been tested in combat
so i dont hold its effectiveness as high as the f-14 and other air craft that are proven in a combat situation,

That's a pity, and I hope Iran thinks the same way, it will make the job that much more easier for the USAF, if indeed it has to come to that.

also Iran have the latest radars from russia and china (china whom also get some good gear from Israel)

Iran's air defenses are lacking in terms of dealing with an organized modern air force with numerous VLO platforms, ECM sytems, and stand off weapons. The F-22 was designed to operate in SAM territory and has been tested for such scenarios.

also the f-22 may encorporate stealth design but that doesnt mean its totaly invible on radar and so forth,

No one said it is, however the F-22 reduces the effectiveness of SAM and radar systems to the point of making them vulnerable to stand off attack.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
That's a pity, and I hope Iran thinks the same way, it will make the job that much more easier for the USAF, if indeed it has to come to that.

hopefully your president wont be reatared enough to start another war
so it doesnt come down to that,
and im sure the Iranians arent underestimating your countries forces hence why they are developing and buying more anti air systems.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Iran's air defenses are lacking in terms of dealing with an organized modern air force with numerous VLO platforms, ECM sytems, and stand off weapons. The F-22 was designed to operate in SAM territory and has been tested for such scenarios.

and we know this how? they have had plenty of years to prepare and get organised with the help of their allies

Originally posted by WestPoint23
No one said it is, however the F-22 reduces the effectiveness of SAM and radar systems to the point of making them vulnerable to stand off attack.

so its not totaly invisible hence giving Iran a chance to track and lock onto one.



ps i dont underestimate your forces nor theirs

Okay, lets go with the facts the Iranians refurbished there fleet of F-14As with new russian engines and managed to get the fire control system working, they still have 30+ year old avionics (most russian avionics are out of date as well) they have a dwindling supply of AIM-154s and seeing as though one of the USNs reasons for scraping the F-14s was due to the high cost of replacing just the databaus on the F-14 , I would have to say that the cost to replace the entire avionics, data system, radars, and associated electrical systems would be outrageously expensive and cost well beyond what it would to simply buy newer aircraft... new AMRAAMS out range the Pheonix anyways so even with airframe upgrades, the Iranian F-14A is garbage and would easily be neutralized.

The fact most F-14's are not allowed to become museum pieces for fear Iran will get ahold of parts, is a testament to the true capability of the F-14 in any airwar with Iran. Why else would the DOD be so fearful?

reply to post by SteveR


The nearby museum happened to have an F-14 on static display for a while before it was moved. I used to have pictures of it on my phone.

I'm not sure how true your statement is, I've never really heard anything like that on the matter, but hey maybe it's true. I don't know who goes around to museums stealing aircraft parts, but maybe it happens.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by xmotex
From what I've read, the Iranians no longer use their F-14's in a direct A2A role, but rather as a kind of "mini-AWACS", using the Tomcat's powerful long-range radar to direct other fighters to their targets.

Personally I wouldn't underestimate the Iranians' capabilities. While they don't have the latest and greatest gear, they are reputedly very well trained and seem to have a penchant for innovative tactics. It's also worth noting that their air warfare doctrine, unlike most opponents we've faced, is not based on old Soviet doctrines, but on our own.

You can't even compare the training a US Airman receives to that of an Iranian or any other airforce in the world for that matter. The number of flight hours that US pilots receive is amazing, now factor in how many pilots have actual combat experience.

Better gear, better training an air battle would be over very quickly IMO.

I never saw an F14 in the air when I was close to Iran. They did still have P-3's in the air. They somehow managed to keep those planes airworthy. Flew right over our flight deck while we were making the transit through the Straits of Hormuz.

reply to post by SteveR


The problem was never with displayed F-14s it was with equipement that was taken out of the aircraft for storage like avionics that ended up in the hands of smugglers. The F-14 sitting on the pedistal has nothing for you thats of any "real" good for selling unless your a aviation nut like myself and you want a piece of the legend. I don't encourage vandelism though of these displays because the point is for them to be perserved for the many not the one guy who ripped this or that off it and put it on his desk thats just selfish.

A good place to start if you're wondering how the Iranian F14s are doing would be to look at the receipts Olly North & his little sub-branch of the CIA (or what & who's ever 'arm's length/plausibly deniable' little operation it came under) got when selling lots of spares & weapons to the Iranians during the Iran/Iraq war.

Mind you, I wouldn't hold out too much hope for any details to be made public, everyone that was ever asked in public by the lawful US authorities charged with investigating that little episode of treason just suddenly found their memory shot to pieces.

Reagan at least had an excuse (he did develop alzheimer's after-all) but the rest of them?!