Let's talk about Iranian F-14

If there is no air force base could be used to detroy Iran Nuclear Station, so no F-22 could be used to support US force striking, I strongly worried that Super Hornet can defeat F-14 which has still being used by Iran. So my question for experts here is that do you know how many F-14s and phoenix missiles still can join fight in air today? I think the F-14 is an unbeatable fighter no matter who use it, while I say this which means you can NOT consider that your enemy always being a foolish man.

Since they haven't been able to buy spares for THIRTY YEARS, it's profoundly unlikely they still have one that's air worthy.

If you had just though about your question a moment, you could have answered it yourself.

Unfortunately the above poster hasn`t seen any of thr multpile links provided about the Iranian F-14`s being used in exercise 2 days ago.

The iranian F-14`s use russian engines and there fire control systems are very operational and capable of firing `reversed engineered` AIM-54`s that the iranian`s have - the claim by the CIA that the system was total wrecked to be used has been proven false when an F-14 shot down an Iraqi Mirage using a Phoenix.

I wouldn't know the exact operational number that is working right now, but I do remember reading in an article on the Iranian Air Force that the US sold some 79 F-14A's to them. So there is the maximum amount of planes.

There were also only about 633 missles to be sold to Iran by the same contract. Although it is quite possible that, given the amount of time, they have reveres engineered the missile.

Even though the US denied them the maintenance and spare parts after the 1979 Revolution, it is speculated that the Soviet Union may have helped them in exchange for looking at the F-14's and copying their designs for both the plane and missile.

Anyway, there are some numbers for you.

I've actually been lookint into this some, since the F-14 had just retired from the USN.

Something else I need to mention is the fact that the Phoenix missile has been retired since late 2004 supposedly.

F-14 Tomcat Wiki link
AIM-54 Phoenix Wiki link
F-14 Tomcat in Iranian Service

[edit on 8/23/2006 by Sir Solomon]

The Iranians have, by necessity, proven themselves to be adept at reverse-engineering aerospace technology. I am sure that at least some of the F-14's in their inventory are still air-worth. Combat-ready? Maybe, maybe not.

When the Shah was deposed and all Americans fled Iran, the Raytheon technicians contracted to maintain the avionics for the F-14's sabotaged much of the aircraft fleet and AIM-54 missiles, but 100% coverage was not possible. Nontheless, the system even when fully operational was exceptionally hard to master, and without proper maintenance, software patches and upgrades, or spare parts, it would have fallen into disrepair very quickly.

The claim that the Iranians have used the F-14 successfully in combat is very true. The claim that the Iranians have used the AIM-54 in combat is unverified. By most accounts (including my own first-hand observation) the F-14 was used by the Iranians primarily as a long-range patrol and early warning aircraft, capable of eluding any hostile aircraft sent to engage it. The AWG-9 was a great system, and the Iranians certainly got plenty of those up and running. Without any dedicated long range air surveillance platforms to warn of incoming Iraqi air raids, the F-14 was the next best thing.

Combat with the F-14 was frowned upon, simply because their value as a EW platform and symbol of national pride was too great. However, the professional pilots of the Iranian Air Force were known to engage Iraqis when the opportunity presented itself. These engagements almost always involved Siderwinders and guns. The Iranians (trained by the US) had much more of a "free gunslinger" approach to air combat, and were willing to take risks and use their a/c to their full capabilities. The Iraqis on the other hand (trained by the Soviets) were used to heavy ground control, pre-planned missions, and standard canned tactics). Althought often outnumbered, the Iranian pilots often came away victorious.

I would say that the effectiveness of the Iranian F-14's (what precious few that remain airworthy) is very small. Even if retrofitted with Russian engines and avionics, the design is over 30 years old, and his hardly any more effective than it was when it was brand new. Besides, the reality is that if a strike against an Iranian nuke plant is in the works, these F-14's wont even make it out of the bunker. Tomahawks and JASSMs wil ensure that.

The new Superhornets are quite the platform - I would not count them out so easily, especially with their new radars, EW equipment, and latest versions of AMRAAM.

Well, let’s assume that Iran has some operational and combat capable F-14A units. Now, given the fact that these are the A version, an old design and the fact that they are mainly equipped with "black market", export upgrades and indigenous systems I would think that the Super Hornet or any major frontline fighter from the USN or USAF would have an advantage in A2A, especially when we consider support systems and other factors. Now I’m not saying that they can’t shoot down a US plane, all I’m trying to say is that they would not be a major deciding factor in any air war.

From what I've read, the Iranians no longer use their F-14's in a direct A2A role, but rather as a kind of "mini-AWACS", using the Tomcat's powerful long-range radar to direct other fighters to their targets.

Personally I wouldn't underestimate the Iranians' capabilities. While they don't have the latest and greatest gear, they are reputedly very well trained and seem to have a penchant for innovative tactics. It's also worth noting that their air warfare doctrine, unlike most opponents we've faced, is not based on old Soviet doctrines, but on our own.

Going back to the initial assumtions... why wouldn't we be able to bring in F-22s?

If nothing else, Raptors can be refueled in flight, which means they can be brought in from just about anywhere. But USAF also has plenty of airbases in the area - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Afghanistan - that we couild probably base the jets out of.

I'm guessing the USAF will want to use any conflict with Iran as an opertunity to show off its new toys. If Iran turns into a battleground (and I really hope it doesn't), it's a safe bet that Raptor will show up for the fight, one way or another.

What would you do if you were an Iranian F14 pilot and an optically camoflauged F22 came out of nowhere showed itself for a second or 2, then disappered again

[edit on 23-8-2006 by warpboost]

Regarding the original post, we can talk about Iranian F-14’s if you want, but the assessment that the F-22 can’t be deployed if need be is wrong. As another poster said before me, the F-22 can be refueled in air and there are numerous USAF bases in the region close enough to allow Raptor operations. The 27th FS has 26 combat ready F-22’s, they have trained, fired live weapons and have deployed out of Langley. They are combat ready and ready for deployment, it’s not a question of can they, its one of will they. And believe me 26 Raptors is more then enough to deal with ANY realistic air threat, let alone 26 combined with perhaps hundreds of other US fighters and support systems.

Summer Heat

I’d just like to address one more point; ROE’s are entirely relevant on a given situation. They are not set in stone, they change given the threat, all our kills in ODS and over Kosovo were not WVR.

If only it had optical camoflauge.

That's still science fiction, and if it is possibly, I think that the only aircraft equipped with it would be the Bird of Prey, something is up with that plane, for the time that it came out, it just looks too low tech for the level of secrecy that was kept around it.

Shattered OUT...

From what I've heard from military guys, Iran has in the low twenties F-14A's still operational. A lot of have been scrapped, hell our F-14D's had a lot of wear on them, now imagine the A models from many years before. The Tomcat is not that good of an A2A platform in the modern atmosphere. It's got a 6.5 G limit which I believe can be exceeded if you get interesting with your manuvers and engineering. You will not survive though, your crew chief will kill you once you get back on the ground. The F-14 is a maintenance pig, it takes huge amounts of time and parts to maintain. The Super Bug will eat this thing for lunch. The F-14 has one of THE LARGEST RCS for an aircraft still flying. Comparatively, the Super Bug is much small on radar. That big fancy radar is 1960-70's technology where the F/A-18's are equipped with AESA radars. Well #, they're going to be outflown, outgunned, outnumbered, and left in a smoking pile of rubble in the desert. Just about any scenario the US would throw at the F-14's they don't stand a chance in hell. Their missiles are almost all spent or too old. Hell, I saw a picture of a Hawk SAM strapped to one of the planes. Funniest damn thing I've seen. I'll give it to the Iranians, they're really good at improvising engineering.

My understanding is that a large percentage of the aircraft have been cannabilised to keep a small fleet flying. The flow on effect of this is limited flying hours for their aircrew, leading to a reduction in currency, especially in air-air as the platform, as mentioned previously, has been fulfilling a mini-AWAC role for a while now. Pyros' response is spot on.

I don't think the Super Hornet has too much to fear from an Iranian F-14 threat. Superior EW, superior NCW support, more current and tactically superior aircrew, AMRAAM, reduced RCS, better WVR capes with AIM-9X and HMS, however you slice and dice it, the Super Hornet should never lose, either 1v1 or 2vX. You can never discount bufoonery though...

So, no accurate number of Iranian F-14 with AIM-54? Who would tell me which Russian model of turbojet that Irnian has used?

Iranian F-14's might be in better shape than we think..



www.irandefence.net...

still dreaming son

Talking about this?

external image

Wondering how did they managed to link the HAWK guidance system and F-14 radar together?

Range of land-launched HAWK = ~25km
Range of AIM-54 = 184 km
Isn't it easier to fit the tomcats with Russian missiles? AA-12?

To NotheRaGe.

Linking the Hawk guidence system to the F-14 radar would be quite easy fro a country with the technological background of Iran. The Hawk missile system is a semi-active guidence system so it needs radar from the F-14 to be active.

All you have to do is add an activation control in the missile so it can be fired from the wing of the aircraft and then modify the semi-active seeker at the tip of the missile with a new system that can use the frequency of the F-14 radar for guidence allowing it to work with the F-14.

Also for your second question.

The range of all missiles that are listed are calculated by first using maximum altitude and then range and what you get then is a "slant range" calculation. the Hawk although listed at 25kkm range is also listed at 13.7km altitude. So it can go 25km when trying to hit a target at 13.7km altitude. The Iranians use Improved hawk missiles and systems. The improved hawk actually has a range of 40km at 20km altitude.

When in a aircraft you no longer have to worry about altitude becuase the aircraft itself is already in the altitude region of the enemy aircraft so your missile will actually travel much further becuase the flight path is no longer a slant but the flight path is straight to the target from the aircraft. Also another thing which will extend range is that the missile is already moving becuase the aircraft is moving so when you fire the missile becuase it already is in motion becuase it was connected to the aircraft it takes less fuel going to full speed when fired froma moving aircraft which extends the range of the missiles.

And if the Iranains also decreased warhead weight from it's origanal size of 74kg of it's improved hawk missiles then change th weight of the warhead to a similar weight to American AIM-120A/B(23 kg) or AIM-120C-5(18 kg) AMRAAM missiles then the missiles could easily reach ranges of 60km+ possibly even 80km ranges.

So it makes sense for the Iranians to use I-Hawk missiles on there F-14 systems becuase the Iranians are one of the largest manufactures of Hawk missile ssystems in the world after America.

Well, if it's true that the Iranian AF has been capable of buying spareparts from Russia we have to believe that they still fly and can be a potential threat for the USN. But as said it's the A version, and it's not as modern as the later models. I'am not saying that the F-14 is a bad plane. But the frame is getting old, same thing with it's electronics. And I have no doubt what so ever that a Super Hornet could take it down.

And if not USA can call in the heavy artillery, the F-22

One has to believe that the Iranians, at this point, would be much more interested in expending time, money, and energy into putting their Iraqi-aquired Fulcrums and Mirages in the air......rather than wasting their time with a bunch of jury-rigged, 30 year old Tomcats, no?