Thats not from the same vantage point. One done at the same filming sport with the same camera, shows the lights dissapear at the mountain. This was done on nationwide television.

I thought the same but even the first pic shows 4 or 5 of the lights infront of the mountainside. Unless that has been doctored.

Youre talking about 2 cameras, and angles, not to mention focal lengths. Think those horror movies where the hallway grows behind the victim. Same thing. The ratio is not the same either.

I'm tellin ya, if the Travel channel runs that show on Phoenix again, they'll show you the footage that night, and the same shot with the same camera from the same spot. And those lights go behind the mountain. It's pretty thorough.

Originally posted by masterp
Flares are not visible in the dark. Flares don't reflect light. Flares are used for radar signals, not for visible light.

Who ever introduced flares into the equation must have thought we are all ignorant.

MasterP, you might be thinking of chaff. Chaff are little tinfoil radar targets that are scattered behind a plane to confuse radar-tracking missles. Another countermeasue jets have are flares. Flares are a burning stick of magnesium dropped to confuse heat-seeking missles. Those arent the type of flares we are discussing though.

Its easy for a novice to get them confused, seeing as how they are both used for the same reason.

Everyone please stop ripping on him.



[edit on 23-8-2006 by Tiloke]

Cognitech

Thats the company who did the daytime overlay of footage from the Phoenix lights event, showing the lights going behind the mountain. Check out their website, and if anyone's so inclined, write as see if they'll email a QT of the footage overlay. I think it'd do volumes to lay this part to rest.

It seems the military flares worked pretty well for their intended purpose; that being to deflect attention away from whatever else happened those nights. Whenever you read any thread about the "Phoenix Lights" it always turns into a debate over "was flares" vs "wasn't flares".

How about we start a Phoenix Lights thread where we don't discuss flares at all. Is there any video or photographs of anything other than the flares from this event? We have the eye witness accounts which seem to indicate that there was something other than flares that many people saw. I've heard mention of video of the "craft". Can anyone provide a link? And please, do not link to a video of the flares.

I was listening to an interview on Coast To Coast AM where a woman who lives near the area described a huge craft flying over her house at night.

As a size reference, most aircraft you see in the sky can be completely blocked out by holding a finger tip up in the air (as they are so far away, and relatively small). She indicated it would take several fists to even begin to try to block out the size of this craft from her vision...

The lights were the only thing captured on film, and it's all that is addressed by the military (as it's the only solid proof of anything) so they released the story of the flares. There is still no mention from the military about all the whitnesses who saw the actual gigantic craft flying overhead...

Originally posted by jritzmann
Youre talking about 2 cameras, and angles, not to mention focal lengths. Think those horror movies where the hallway grows behind the victim. Same thing. The ratio is not the same either.

I'm tellin ya, if the Travel channel runs that show on Phoenix again, they'll show you the footage that night, and the same shot with the same camera from the same spot. And those lights go behind the mountain. It's pretty thorough.

This is fully accurate.

They showed an Unsolved Mysteries clip I remember (I think it was Unsolved Mysteries) where they actually dubed the night footage over the day footage, and the lights disapear exactly as they went behind the slope of the mountain, in order as you would expect them to. Watching it there is no question that is what caused the lights to go 'out'...

[edit on 8/23/06 by bobby3]

Heres a thought... the city that I live in has a set of 3 lights... VERY POWERFUL LARGE LIGHTS that are on pivots that they shoot up in the air every-once-in-a-while on special occasions. This craft was supposedly seen several times on different nights. My idea is that if the airforce base that is close by denies that there is anything there(to make sure that you don't blind a pilot)... they should roll in a similar set of lights the following nights in anticipation and wait. If the craft shows up the next night... shine it right up at the craft. Then we could see once and for all what is up there. Better hope it doesn't mind though. ;o) Just a thought....

Just in case anyone still has any doubts about the lack of noise from the A-10's dropping flares, I just returned from Phoenix and can state categorically that it would not have been possible to hear them from anywhere around downtown Phoenix. I stayed at the Hyatt on 2nd street and the airport is at 24th street and I could not hear any significant airplane noise from that distance and the mountains are way past the airport. Obviously someone who may have been within a couple of miles of the A-10's would have heard something but I have not heard of anyone coming forward to say that they were near the lights but did not see or hear any planes.

If this was such a major sighting over many nights, why didn't anyone hop in his car and drive closer instead of just standing in his yard like an idiot? With millions of people owning high tech camcorders why was there only one film of the event? Same goes for all the other supposed sightings worldwide, not one good frame other than shots of points of light with no detail? Then after the fact all kinds of UFO claims are presented. Give me a break!

I saw the documentary too and the flares clearly went off one by one as they descended behind the mountains, following precisely the contours of the ridge line.
As for the triangular 'craft' over Phoenix that many people claim to have witnessed from fairly close up, it has not been adequately explained so I have to keep an open mind on that for now.

Can you imagine being on of the eye witnesses to the earlier accounts of the craft being witnessed?

I wouldn't know what to do or say - especially during the night time situation, witnessing something so large I would stand in awwe and admiration.

Truely a beautiful thing but I believe enough evidence has come up to put flares as the culprit for the night time sighting that's so popularly circulated. It seems extensively it was a ploy to provide the reasoning for "all the strange lights seen in the sky", but then again, they couldn't cover up everything that happened during that time frame of the couple of days

Interesting though, but yeah the night time issue is consistent with flares definately, I used to see the same thing near Fort Drum in Upstate New York, I'd think they were UFOs but in reality they were flares. However, there were other times when they weren't flares.. and that just made it interesting to see

Originally posted by bobby3
I was listening to an interview on Coast To Coast AM where a woman who lives near the area described a huge craft flying over her house at night.

As a size reference, most aircraft you see in the sky can be completely blocked out by holding a finger tip up in the air (as they are so far away, and relatively small). She indicated it would take several fists to even begin to try to block out the size of this craft from her vision...

The lights were the only thing captured on film, and it's all that is addressed by the military (as it's the only solid proof of anything) so they released the story of the flares. There is still no mention from the military about all the whitnesses who saw the actual gigantic craft flying overhead...

Was that the woman who had her kids outside with her and lived next to a mountain? If so,I remember her saying that this craft literally 'hugged' the mountain as it descended right over the top of her house and through her neighborhood. She said you could see what looked like 'metal pipes' running in different directions under it. It flew VERY low to the ground for being such an enormous craft.

Someone may have already said this, but I have an insanely short attention span and only read the first page and a half and skimmed the rest. I don't believe these were flares. I don't, however, believe it was an alien spacecraft either. I believe, because of their inconsistency during the entire event, that the Air Force was testing a new aircraft that they don't want the public to know about.

[edit on 24-8-2006 by screams2silence]

The flares are dropped over the Goldwater range, behind South Mountain where the footage was taken. I have no doubt those were flares, the triangle craft was a different story, same day, but the amber lights were flares. I was on the way to San Diego late one night and I was driving right next to the Goldwater range when out of nowhere a huge amber ball of light appeared right next to me, scared the crap outta me, then another, and another. After a few moments of waiting to be abducted I notices trails of smoke above them and realized they were very slowly falling, then I noticed the lights from the plane dropping them, and there was also some air to ground tracer fire in the distance so it was some kind of military excercise. I knew right away that's what was on that video...but again, the triangle craft is a completely different issue.